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  1. #26
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    I will say to our international friends that not everyone in America wants people to fend for themselves when it comes to healthcare. It seems to make sense to have the largest insurance pool possible (like 300+ million people large) to ensure insurance works as effectively as possible. Even the healthy must pay in as that is what enables the very sick to not owe money for their entire lives to doctors and hospitals. No one asks for illness, and the entire country is better if less people are sick or bankrupt from medical bills. Compulsory health insurance is a good idea. The shutdown is a joke.

    The democratic process has produced a law which included lots of negotiation between sides to pass in the first place. One of the main negotiations was over delaying the bill's implementation for multiple years to allow more time for citizens and industry to ready itself. That time has expired, and it is time for the law to take effect, as was agreed to by both sides during negotiations in the legislature. If more negotiation was necessary, it would have had to happen before the bill was passed in order to pass it. Considering the bill has passed and has become law and has stood up to the constitutionality tests in the Supreme Court, lets all just get on with our lives. Stop holding the government hostage and do your damn jobs!
    Eppur si muove.

  2. #27
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    It's not even been a week, so unless you have normal interaction with Federal employees/agencies you're not gonna notice yet​.
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  3. #28
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    There are two theories to arguing with women. Neither one works

  4. #29
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    We're noticing. My gf is essential personnel but if the shutdown goes out past a certain point in the near-future, it's literally lights-out everywhere. I've got special status paperwork at work that cannot go through until it comes back online, definitely affects me.

    There's no guarantee for back-pay on this either. Several times in the past, federal employees have gotten back-pay so it's almost like a mini-vacation. But on the furloughs they did not and it might be the same with this as well.

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    10 ways govt shutdown will hurt America

    Published time: September 30, 2013 19:10
    Edited time: October 01, 2013 07:18




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    With the threat of a federal government shutdown hanging over the US economy, here is a handy list of the possible effects American citizens and the rest of the world could face if no deal is reached to continue funding.
    In the most recent developments in a budget battle, the US Senate Democrats have rejected a proposal by the Republican-led House of Representatives to put off Obamacare for a year in return for temporary funding of the federal government beyond Monday.

    Though adopting spending bills by Oct. 1, the start of the new fiscal year in the US, may seem a purely political issue, if Congress fails to approve funding for the federal government this would seriously affect the daily routine of ordinary US citizens, let alone up to 800,000 federal employees who would be sent home Tuesday without pay if the shutdown takes place.
    The last government shutdown lasted 21 days, from December 1996 to January 1997, and cost the administration of US President Bill Clinton cost an estimated $2 billion, according to the White House’s Office of Management and Budget.
    In remarks made by Obama Monday evening the President struck a defiant note on the healthcare law.
    "An important part of the Affordable Care Act takes effect tomorrow, no matter what Congress decides to do today. The Affordable Care Act is moving forward. That funding is already in place. You can't shut it down."
    In another pointed remark aimed at Republicans tying Obamacare to the government shutdown the President essentially accused lawmakers of political blackmail.
    "You don't get to extract a ransom for doing your job, for doing what you're supposed to be doing anyway, or just because there's a law there that you don't like."

    1 Countdown to US default looms

    A halt of US government operations would drag the world’s biggest economy closer to bankruptcy, something unprecedented in US history. If no budget deal is done, the US would bump up against their “debt ceiling” and run out of money by October 17. By then, the US government would have less than $30 billion cash on hand, Treasury Secretary Jacob Lew has calculated.
    2 Hundreds of thousands of federal employees on furlough

    A one-time layoff of 800,000 people working for the US government would erode the earlier projected economic growth of 2.5 percent for the fourth quarter of 2013 by about 0.32 percentage points, according to a forecast by Mark Zandi, chief economist and co-founder of Moody's Analytics. That projection assumes a two-week shutdown. If it drags into a whole month, the loss of GDP would rise to 1.4 percentage points.
    3 Troops’ paychecks stopped

    About 1.4 million military active-duty personnel would keep on working, but with their paychecks delayed. Approval for troops’ paychecks is dependent on Obama’s proposed 2014 federal budget being passed by Congress.
    4 Women and children’s nutrition program threatened

    Pregnant women and new moms who are poor and facing “nutrition risk” won’t be able to buy healthy food, as a looming shutdown would put bracers on the $6 billion Special Supplemental Nutrition Program for Women Infants and Children (WIC).
    5 $85 billion in cuts to federal programs

    When a shutdown was last threatened in March 2013, it would have resulted in $85 billion in automatic cuts in spending on federal programs – many aimed at alleviating social hardship. The cuts, known as sequestration, would affect grants to local organizations and funds that keep those programs running.
    6 Housing loans halted

    US federal programs that provide for about 30 percent of all new loans in the housing market – a backbone of the country’s economy – will be shut down. Government funding of new businesses will also be halted, as well as workplace health and safety inspections.
    7 Trade talks scuppered?

    US plans to have a Pacific trade deal, the Trans Pacific Partnership, signed with the US’s Asian partners could stall, as Obama may decide not to travel to this weekend’s Bali, Indonesia meeting of the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation nations. While he could still go if no deal is done by then, it could be a gift for his Republican opponents if Obama was seen to be jetting off to a tropical paradise at a time when federal employees were sent home without pay.
    8 Visa delays likely

    Thousands of Americans may not be able to get passports for foreign travel, and tourists travelling to the US will likely face delays in visa processing. During the last government shutdown in 1996-97, some 20,000-30,000 applications remained unprocessed daily.
    9 Space program on hold

    Space agency NASA will be hit the most, as the agency will need to furlough about 97 percent of its employees, though it will continue to keep workers at Mission Control in Houston and elsewhere to support the International Space Station, where the two NASA astronauts currently on board, Michael Hopkins and Karen Nyberg, may not know whether they have jobs to come back to.
    10 National parks, museums and zoos would close to the public

    State-funded museums, art galleries and zoos across the country would keep their doors closed Tuesday, leaving thousands of employees furloughed and visitors unable to see attractions. US national parks, from Yosemite to the Shenandoahs, as well as Washington’s National Mall, Lincoln Memorial and Constitution Gardens, would also be closed.


    Source
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  6. #31
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    2 out of 2 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
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  7. #32
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    went through TSA yesterday, smooth sailing, no anal checks, and no bombs exploded.. i can get to like this no government thing. just glad my glock permit came in the day before Click here to enlarge

  8. #33
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    Yes! I'm not working.
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  9. #34
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    that is awesome.
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  10. #35
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    that is awesome.
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  11. #36
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    Week 2. This week more gnashing of teeth and effects start to be felt wider. Contracts delayed, permits not granted, more jobs affected...... By the end of this week or probably before 10-17, debt limit increase, markets will be the elephant in the room. The political rhetoric will fall apart.

    I always thought having a top credit rating was non-negotiable, it's the responsibility of the nation that is the world's reserve currency..... unless that is the end goal?

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    I honestly feel it is best for our nation to go through a pro-longed government shut down. This is the only way Americans will see how much involvement and control the our government has over so many things in our country. Too many Americans rely on government funding, and I personally would be devastated if our housing market fell, but that is a price I'm willing to pay if it means people in this country need to trust our capitalistic functions and realize our government is only here to protect us, and is not a crutch to lean on or even worse help us walk through life. Many of our social programs were started during tough times meant to be taken away after a period of 5-10 years, but politicians only see these programs and additional programs and funding as a way to buy the peoples' vote. In the end it is not our government or politicians to blame, it is only ourselves. We elect them, and if we feel there is no positive choice on the ballot, it is our duty to take the power away from them.

    Yes, many Americans, like many foreigners may not understand or be to fathom how a country with any money at all does not have a public health care system. I say to those people, do you think that when you call an ambulance they ask for an insurance card? Or deny care? Do you think there are no failsafes to prevent people that have no money or insurance to receiving no care at all? It may seem crude, but the market sets itself as to what is necessary. If it was possible for everyone to have health care or is possible, then the market would have or will eventually get itself there. Have you not thought about doctor shortages? Or how about doctor's wages? IMO we absolutely have the best care in the world as long as you can pay for it. Nothing wrong with that. Is our healthcare system perfect? No, I don't think it is, but it is definitely better than most. Even with a great PAID for personally health insurance, it is very difficult to get a specialist appointment. (2-3 months for an ear doctor locally). That's crazy already, can't imagine if everyone at health care.

    In the end I am so sick and tired of hearing how everyone deserves equal this and equal that. Maybe some are born into money or start off better than others, but that is only fair to their parents, grandparents, and so on and what they accomplished so that their children would not have to worry. There must be incentive for great people to do great things, and honestly if you don't get it, then don't live here. If you live here and disagree, then get the $#@! out. You don't belong here, go start a new country, after all, that is how we were founded. We wanted freedom, a sort of free-for-all type of economy. Just like this forum, no one is forcing you to be here, if you don't like it go somewhere else, why is that so hard to comprehend? Oh sorry, you don't have to money to leave? Then work 3 jobs and save up until you can, THAT'S the American way. WORKING FOR IT.
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  13. #38
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mjmarovi Click here to enlarge
    THAT'S the American way. WORKING FOR IT.
    Obama feels differently. Take take take. $#@! him.

  14. #39
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mjmarovi Click here to enlarge
    I honestly feel it is best for our nation to go through a pro-longed government shut down. This is the only way Americans will see how much involvement and control the our government has over so many things in our country. Too many Americans rely on government funding, and I personally would be devastated if our housing market fell, but that is a price I'm willing to pay if it means people in this country need to trust our capitalistic functions and realize our government is only here to protect us, and is not a crutch to lean on or even worse help us walk through life. Many of our social programs were started during tough times meant to be taken away after a period of 5-10 years, but politicians only see these programs and additional programs and funding as a way to buy the peoples' vote. In the end it is not our government or politicians to blame, it is only ourselves. We elect them, and if we feel there is no positive choice on the ballot, it is our duty to take the power away from them.

    Yes, many Americans, like many foreigners may not understand or be to fathom how a country with any money at all does not have a public health care system. I say to those people, do you think that when you call an ambulance they ask for an insurance card? Or deny care? Do you think there are no failsafes to prevent people that have no money or insurance to receiving no care at all? It may seem crude, but the market sets itself as to what is necessary. If it was possible for everyone to have health care or is possible, then the market would have or will eventually get itself there. Have you not thought about doctor shortages? Or how about doctor's wages? IMO we absolutely have the best care in the world as long as you can pay for it. Nothing wrong with that. Is our healthcare system perfect? No, I don't think it is, but it is definitely better than most. Even with a great PAID for personally health insurance, it is very difficult to get a specialist appointment. (2-3 months for an ear doctor locally). That's crazy already, can't imagine if everyone at health care.

    In the end I am so sick and tired of hearing how everyone deserves equal this and equal that. Maybe some are born into money or start off better than others, but that is only fair to their parents, grandparents, and so on and what they accomplished so that their children would not have to worry. There must be incentive for great people to do great things, and honestly if you don't get it, then don't live here. If you live here and disagree, then get the $#@! out. You don't belong here, go start a new country, after all, that is how we were founded. We wanted freedom, a sort of free-for-all type of economy. Just like this forum, no one is forcing you to be here, if you don't like it go somewhere else, why is that so hard to comprehend? Oh sorry, you don't have to money to leave? Then work 3 jobs and save up until you can, THAT'S the American way. WORKING FOR IT.
    just when i was starting to not like you, you post this masterpiece

  15. #40
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    just when i was starting to not like you, you post this masterpiece
    Friends? Click here to enlarge
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    I feel it being in the military. Ranges shut down. Fuel cut offs etc. $#@! is starting to get gay.

  17. #42
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by CaliforniaBred Click here to enlarge
    I feel it being in the military. Ranges shut down. Fuel cut offs etc. $#@! is starting to get gay.
    thats what they get for hiring civilians to do military jobs anyway. fuel and commissary i can understand but the rest should be internal.

    i was doing a course with AMU last week and we couldnt get ammo cause civilians work it.. military should be self-sustaining

  18. #43
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    thats what they get for hiring civilians to do military jobs anyway. fuel and commissary i can understand but the rest should be internal.

    i was doing a course with AMU last week and we couldnt get ammo cause civilians work it.. military should be self-sustaining

    Exactly what I've been saying for some time now. It's absurd how much civilians are involved with everyday military life. It shouldn't be that way whatsoever. PCS moves stopped because of civilians, med drops stopped because of civilians etc etc. Some of the things that were taken away are starting to come back but the big ones like fuel and ammo are still a no go.

  19. #44
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    That's just ridiculous... Anything having to do with defense, trade, and transport should not be hindered during a shut down. Or any entity that is or is suppose to be self sustaining like parks, mail, etc. Nothing else is needed, states handle the rest and always should
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  20. #45
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mjmarovi Click here to enlarge
    like many foreigners may not understand or be to fathom how a country with any money at all does not have a public health care system. I say to those people, do you think that when you call an ambulance they ask for an insurance card? Or deny care? Do you think there are no failsafes to prevent people that have no money or insurance to receiving no care at all?
    Dude, please don't try to judge a good working humane healthcare system in "foreign countries" if you can not grasp the concept at all..
    In the end you get what you deserve apparently, and for that I hope you sir stay well within the money scope of your health insurance for the rest of your days, and in good health. Good day.
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  21. #46
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DavidV Click here to enlarge
    Dude, please don't try to judge a good working humane healthcare system in "foreign countries" if you can not grasp the concept at all..
    In the end you get what you deserve apparently, and for that I hope you sir stay well within the money scope of your health insurance for the rest of your days, and in good health. Good day.
    Why put foreign in "" ? It is foreign, you are foreign, that is not a bad word. I did not judge any foreign countrys' healthcare system, I honestly don't give two $#@!s about your healthcare system in the Netherlands or anywhere else, I do not live, I do not have any say, so why should I care? I grasp the concept quite well actually, it is you and many others who don't have the capacity to understand why the United States thrives, and if we turn around the path we are on to more government control and lessen the governments involvement in our day to day we will continue to thrive and once again be the most prosperous country in the world. YOU speak as if you know our healthcare system, and how it works, why are you even speaking about it? You want to share incite about your own system and how you feel about fine, I have no problem hearing how others feel about public health care, but don't for a second act as if everyone loves it over there, as they do not. Canada has public health care, but why is it that tens of thousands choose to cross the border to receive our health care? Why is it people all over the world from nations with public healthcare come to the United States to receive care? Answer that one for me.

    You people who support public healthcare know nothing about current system nor do you understand fully what would change if we switched over to this system, or when we do apparently. Many of the same people who thought it was necessary to bail out the auto manufacturers.

    True story: I was sitting in a college classroom when there was a debate going on about the auto bailouts. (after they happened mind you). A young black woman and open supporter of Obama proclaimed how she though it would be awful of our government to stand by and watch these companies fall into bankruptcy and thousands of people lose their jobs. I said, "well that's capitalism, they will find jobs elsewhere, and they mainly have the unions to blame". She then went on about how I seemingly did not understand how things work or just didn't care about people. I said, " well my father lost his job in the recession, and he re-opened his own business and worked his way out of it, that's what Americans do". i then went to ask her why she truly thought would happen if GM filed bankruptcy. She said, "everyone would lose their job and they wouldn't make vehicles anymore". I said, "are they making vehicles now?" She says, "yes, because we bailed them out". I said, "we did, we gave them billions of dollars to operate for an additional 6 months and 3 months they filed bankruptcy, re-structured the american way and are now back on a path to continued success, which was only delayed by the bailout and government intervention." She says, oh nothing, silence, puzzled look on her face, couldn't figure out how it was possible. I told her to try and fit in a couple business or economics courses into her artsy fartsy liberal $#@!ing college education.

    i thank you for wishing me a good day @DavidV but it is NOT a good day I'm afraid, and your sarcasm and lack of understanding and seeing the big picture is just a continuance of what is wrong with the mindset of so many people.
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    Shutdown of Gov, US largest employer, big economic implications

    skeletal staffing until full funding resumed

    Suppliers not paid, contract damage clauses start to be invoked legally, customers of Gov services not served


    Seems like the changes some wanted are happening and they don't know how to fix it. (ACA, Debt, Deficit.....whatever else)


    My guess the next election cycle the electorate will tack a different direction.

    Still buying volatility, and will continue to do so until some clarity over the debt ceiling drama on or about 10-17(interesting options expire 10-16).

    Strong dollar types should be screaming at the top of their lungs at the devaluation that is happening behind this.

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    shut-down? gov is shut down? why is obamas golf course open, immigrant rally on fed land still ok, and congress is still being paid?

  24. #49
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    and congress is still being paid?
    for once I agree with you. If the government is "shut down", how the $#@! are those disfunctional idiots still getting paid when they're obviously not doing the jobs we pay them to do.

    i hate politicians.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    congress is still being paid?
    Notice how little attention this issue gets. The least effective congresses(sp) back to back to back.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    shut-down?
    Shutdown doesn't mean closed.

    They pick and choose where resources are directed. Witness the new tactic of passing a bunch of appropriation bills.

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