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  1. #26
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    the noob is going for it....
    im FBO jb4 g4 running 94(petro canada)
    would this flash still work? would someone running 94 benefit from this flash?
    if i got this correct, buy BT cable,download BB open source flash tool,download the pump gas flash,flash to car, and now you have more power? seems to easy lol

  2. #27
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    If you're a tuner you can make the G4 work but G5 ISO is suggested.
    Burger Motorsports
    Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, N63s, S55s, and S63s!

    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

  3. #28
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90Company Click here to enlarge
    any independant dyno's or track times to back up Bren's? I'm skeptical of your numbers on his dyno as are many. You can only get so much out of 93, and I remember you saying you were getting timing corrections on COBB's OTS maps.
    Unfortunately the car is getting a fueling issue dealt with so hopefully after Monday I'll be able to hit a track -- Ideally I'm hoping to have the time to go to the DOR II Event at MIR in November.

    I'm not sure why everyone feels the need to doubt the quality of Bren's tunes every time, but without question the same people praise any other tuners "record breaking numbers". My stock baseline was identical to the baseline I put down on Undercover's dyno and the gains were there (which is what should be focused on, not the specific numbers a dyno spits out).

    Bren recently acquired an AWD Mustang dyno, so I'm sure it's a matter of time until an N54 gets on there and further proves the quality of his tunes. Timing Corrections on the COBB OTS Aggressive map aren't out of the norm, regardless what level you're running (Stage 1 or Stage 2+), you need to remember it's a generic shelf map & people report all kinda of drivability issues with the OTS Aggressive Maps -- specifically frequent Timing Corrections, Boost Oscillations & Overshoots. If you're gonna cite Timing Corrections as a limitation to tuning on 93, then how do you explain the 40-50 WHP some people are picking up with PROtunes vs. OTS Maps?
    Last edited by benzy89; 09-19-2013 at 11:14 PM.
    COBB AP ProTune by Bren of ///Bren Tuning
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  4. #29
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    If you're a tuner you can make the G4 work but G5 ISO is suggested.
    so other then upgrading to g5 board i was right? lol

  5. #30
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    Unfortunately the car is getting a fueling issue dealt with so hopefully after Monday I'll be able to hit a track -- Ideally I'm hoping to have the time to go to the DOR II Event at MIR in November.

    I'm not sure why everyone feels the need to doubt the quality of Bren's tunes every time, but without question the same people praise any other tuners "record breaking numbers". My stock baseline was identical to the baseline I put down on Undercover's dyno and the gains were there (which is what should be focused on, not the specific numbers a dyno spits out).

    Bren recently acquired an AWD Mustang dyno, so I'm sure it's a matter of time until an N54 gets on there and further proves the quality of his tunes. Timing Corrections on the COBB OTS Aggressive map aren't out of the norm, regardless what level you're running (Stage 1 or Stage 2+), you need to remember it's a generic shelf map & people report all kinda of drivability issues with the OTS Aggressive Maps -- specifically frequent Timing Corrections, Boost Oscillations & Overshoots. If you're gonna cite Timing Corrections as a limitation to tuning on 93, then how do you explain the 40-50 WHP some people are picking up with PROtunes vs. OTS Maps?
    I dont think any has refuted the quality of Bren's tunes.... just the numbers from his dyno. I've heard nothing but great things about the tunes from Bren, but i dont believe the numbers. Research will show that dynapacks tend to read higher, hell just the loss of rolling resistance from tires can make a big difference. But lets not pretend that other tuners don't use similar effects to their advantage. Anyone wanna guess what effect over inflating the rear tires will have on a Dynojet? Click here to enlarge
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  6. #31
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    Unfortunately the car is getting a fueling issue dealt with so hopefully after Monday I'll be able to hit a track -- Ideally I'm hoping to have the time to go to the DOR II Event at MIR in November.

    I'm not sure why everyone feels the need to doubt the quality of Bren's tunes every time, but without question the same people praise any other tuners "record breaking numbers". My stock baseline was identical to the baseline I put down on Undercover's dyno and the gains were there (which is what should be focused on, not the specific numbers a dyno spits out).

    Bren recently acquired an AWD Mustang dyno, so I'm sure it's a matter of time until an N54 gets on there and further proves the quality of his tunes. Timing Corrections on the COBB OTS Aggressive map aren't out of the norm, regardless what level you're running (Stage 1 or Stage 2+), you need to remember it's a generic shelf map & people report all kinda of drivability issues with the OTS Aggressive Maps -- specifically frequent Timing Corrections, Boost Oscillations & Overshoots. If you're gonna cite Timing Corrections as a limitation to tuning on 93, then how do you explain the 40-50 WHP some people are picking up with PROtunes vs. OTS Maps?

    I dont think anyone is doubting the quality of the tune, but certainly the numbers, because the numbers are always VERY high, and not in one instance did any one of these people go to a dynojet to back up Brens tuning numbers after numerous discussions stating the standard to brag is a dynojet. Ive also never seen a time slip or a video of a bren tuning car walking away from a jb with flash car that we know is set up right.


    It raises doubts, why not just hit a dynojet one time? I got $20 on it.... He really may be a great tuner who knows some tricks to make power but I will not personally validate any of these numbers until i see your car on a dynojet and match the numbers or you trap 122-124 on stock turbos with the e85 tune just as any other car would with 460whp.

    Just go to a dynojet and dyno the car and i gaurantee you you will not here one more comment about the numbers if you lay down the same power.
    09 6AT 335i Coupe M-Sport - SOLD
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  7. #32
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ChuckD05 Click here to enlarge
    It raises doubts, why not just hit a dynojet one time? I got $20 on it.... He really may be a great tuner who knows some tricks to make power but I will not personally validate any of these numbers until i see your car on a dynojet and match the numbers or you trap 122-124 on stock turbos with the e85 tune just as any other car would with 460whp.

    Just go to a dynojet and dyno the car and i gaurantee you you will not here one more comment about the numbers if you lay down the same power.
    I don't understand how DJ became the "standard", in fact I think it's already been illustrated how "skewed" the results can be on a DJ vs a Mustang. And if the closest one wasn't an 1 hr+ away, then maybe I'd consider. And like I already said (and like most people on here agree on), it's never about the numbers, you should always focus on the gains which should be consistent regardless which dyno you're on.

    Once my car is healthy, I have no problem racing any setup (strict COBB PROtune, JB4/BMS Flash, etc etc) on the 93 tune. E85 is starting to switch over to winter blend so it's probably gonna be 70% ethanol or lower.
    COBB AP ProTune by Bren of ///Bren Tuning
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  8. #33
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    I'll be up front here, I consider Bren a friend, so I have a bias. That said, I was referred to him back in my Subaru days because he was working magic with the 2.5 liter motors and I needed a guy that I could trust (before him my last pro-tune was pulling 6+ degrees at max torque... ugh).

    Bren actually walked me through what he was doing. I didn't tell him at the time what I did for work, nor did I tell him what I did/didn't know about what he was doing -I just let him do his thing, and asked a few questions. The bottom line is that he knows his stuff and puts in a tremendous amount of work. There are a lot of good tuners out there for sure, but many more that don't deserve to be handed someone else's car. He's very thorough; his attention to detail is impressive. He never stops learning new tricks, and he's spent a lot of time on other platforms and seems to be able to apply what he learns from one platform to another. He does a lot less talking and a lot more doing, and I respect that.

    I have an ACN91 and an E85 tune currently. ACN91, as you know, is as bad as it gets for pump, and of course being in Arizona temperature is a problem. The last virtual dynos I did on my 50/50 ACN91/E85 map at 1200' elevation, 104* ambient showed from 390-415 whp depending on the section of road which I may or may not have exceeded the posted speed limit on. *shrug* Take that for what it's worth, but that is with no pulled timing, stock downpipes and a LPFP which is most of the way through giving up the ghost (Walbro ordered). Once I replace those things I may do a real dyno run out here for comparison, but it's going to be tough to be real meaningful to the doubters since my tune is remote, different fuel/temps/elevation, etc; it's not like I can roll my car off his dyno and onto one that's more accepted by the forums, lol. It will be interesting to see how things go now that he has a mustang dyno at his disposal.

  9. #34
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90Company Click here to enlarge
    @benzy89 any independant dyno's or track times to back up Bren's? I'm skeptical of your numbers on his dyno as are many. You can only get so much out of 93, and I remember you saying you were getting timing corrections on COBB's OTS maps.
    Terry just hit 400whp on 91 in an auto. 20 more whp on 93 and a manual isn't hard to believe.

  10. #35
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    In terms of making internet comparisons I think MDs are among the worst. Great for tuning on. But they have wild power swings depending on settings and correction factors. Dynojets also have their limitations but if nothing else they are very consistent from day to day and dyno to dyno. Within 3-4% in my experience. Which is why they are the gold standard for making internet comparisons.
    Burger Motorsports
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    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

  11. #36
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    Understood. I also understand why he chose to invest in a load bearing dyno as his tuning tool. Internets will always be internets. Jimmies will be rustled.

  12. #37
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    At the end of the day all that really matters is that the cars are tuned properly, putting down great 1/4 mile times, and winning rolling races. Click here to enlarge
    Burger Motorsports
    Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, N63s, S55s, and S63s!

    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

  13. #38
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Torgus Click here to enlarge
    Terry just hit 400whp on 91 in an auto. 20 more whp on 93 and a manual isn't hard to believe.
    Except Benzy's car is auto Click here to enlarge

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    so ive tried reading on other forums and stuff but im still not gettting.
    will this pump gas flash work for 94 or is it only for use with 91?
    is it really just flashing the car and you have more power?
    sorry for noob questions but im trying to figure this out

  15. #40
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    Pump flash is suggested for all fuels/situations, except those running meth/big E85 mixtures, who will want the race flash. Flash car and make more power. Simple as that. Click here to enlarge
    Burger Motorsports
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    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

  16. #41
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by alexx03 Click here to enlarge
    so ive tried reading on other forums and stuff but im still not gettting.
    will this pump gas flash work for 94 or is it only for use with 91?
    is it really just flashing the car and you have more power?
    sorry for noob questions but im trying to figure this out
    The "back end" flash that Terry is using is meant for flashing the DME and using a JB4 as a stacked combination. The flash maps aren't suitable for a vehicle without a JB4 installed.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lulz_m3 Click here to enlarge
    The "back end" flash that Terry is using is meant for flashing the DME and using a JB4 as a stacked combination. The flash maps aren't suitable for a vehicle without a JB4 installed.
    yes i understand that and i have a jb4 g4, terry@bms told me that i should upgrade to G5 board.
    it just seems to easy so i think im confused lol
    im just wondering if this flash will benifit a FBO JB4 car running 94 octance or if this is only for 91 octance?
    the fact that you flash your car and suddenly have more power running the same maps on jb4 is a little crazy to me so im wodering if its as easy as it sounds or im just seriously confused.

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    i guess what im trying to ask is what is exactly does the flash do lol ive tried reading stuff but cant figure it out.
    can someone post up a thread where i can do some more reading? or just a brief description please?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by alexx03 Click here to enlarge
    i guess what im trying to ask is what is exactly does the flash do lol ive tried reading stuff but cant figure it out.
    can someone post up a thread where i can do some more reading? or just a brief description please?
    I can't speak about Jb4 G4/G5 and how it would play nicely with the backend flash, i honestly dont know. But the flash does great things for a piggyback user. It changes the AFR targets so that the Jb4 doesnt need to bias fuel as much to richen things up. The flash will also change timing targets to be less or more aggressive depending on what suits your setup best. With just the piggyback you are often times faced with either run less boost or add more octane, now with the flash you can change the timing and have better control over the whole picture.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lulz_m3 Click here to enlarge
    I can't speak about Jb4 G4/G5 and how it would play nicely with the backend flash, i honestly dont know. But the flash does great things for a piggyback user. It changes the AFR targets so that the Jb4 doesnt need to bias fuel as much to richen things up. The flash will also change timing targets to be less or more aggressive depending on what suits your setup best. With just the piggyback you are often times faced with either run less boost or add more octane, now with the flash you can change the timing and have better control over the whole picture.
    so do i change all this stuff manually with the flash or its all Incorporated into the flash?
    terry said if your a tuner and know how you can get the G4 to work but its easier with the G5 board.
    thanks for the help man

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    sorry terry i totally missed your post up top!!
    thank you for answering my question.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by alexx03 Click here to enlarge
    so do i change all this stuff manually with the flash or its all Incorporated into the flash?
    terry said if your a tuner and know how you can get the G4 to work but its easier with the G5 board.
    thanks for the help man
    It sounds like things will be much tougher with the G4. I imagine you are better off upgrading to the G5 board so you can just upload the flash and run the JB4 and not have to worry about it. I wish i could help you more in terms of what needs to be changed on the G4 to get things working but i've only ever run a flash tune, so i'm pretty clueless on the inner workings of JB4.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lulz_m3 Click here to enlarge
    It sounds like things will be much tougher with the G4. I imagine you are better off upgrading to the G5 board so you can just upload the flash and run the JB4 and not have to worry about it. I wish i could help you more in terms of what needs to be changed on the G4 to get things working but i've only ever run a flash tune, so i'm pretty clueless on the inner workings of JB4.
    not a problem man im planning on upgrading to the G5 board anyways.
    i just wanted more info on this flash so i could understand it better.
    guess BT cable and G5 board are next on the mod list....
    thanks again for the help

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by alexx03 Click here to enlarge
    not a problem man im planning on upgrading to the G5 board anyways.
    i just wanted more info on this flash so i could understand it better.
    guess BT cable and G5 board are next on the mod list....
    thanks again for the help
    No problem. I also rent out my BT cable if you don't want to purchase one, link in my sig.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lulz_m3 Click here to enlarge
    No problem. I also rent out my BT cable if you don't want to purchase one, link in my sig.
    sorry but i thought i read somewhere that either the BB flash tool or the BT cable is vin locked to one vin? am i just confused again lol

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