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  1. #1
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    Spec2+ Clutch and Flywheel options

    I am getting ready for the VTT Stage2 turbos. I decided to go with the Spec2+ set up. I know that there are people out there that uses single mass SS flywheel as well as people that uses the stock flywheel. My car is my daily driver and I take clients out in it. So having a loud set up (chatter) is not an option for me. I am leaning towards using the stock flywheel so that I don't get any chatter. Obviously, it is proven that the single mass flywheel set up with spec2+ clutch would hold all the power these turbos would produce. How about just using the spec clutch with the stock flywheel? would this set up not hold the power? Thank you,
    Spec2+ Clutch, SS SMFW, BMS backend flash, VRSF DPs, ETS 5" FMIC, ER CP - Tial BOV, N20 3.5 Bar map sensor, BMS OCC, Walbro 255, Wavetrac LSD, Defiv Diff. lockdown kit, UUC EVO3 and DSSR, AFE DCI, H&R Coilovers, M3 Front control arms, rear arms, rear subframe bushings, Rogue Engineering transmission mounts, Michelin PSS 265/35/18 - 235/40/18, Apex ARC-8.

  2. #2
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    The problem may not be so much that it won't hold the power, but at elevated boost levels, like you find by maxing out your stg2's, you'll get faulty misfire detection issues due to the Dual mass flywheel. Switching to the single mass flywheel eliminates those misfires.

    I will tell you, i have 550 miles on my new spec 3+ / spec steel single mass flywheel and it takes some getting used too. It definitely chatters and makes noise while sitting still and the clutch is not engaged. With the AC its worse. It also vibrates sound into the cabin while accelerating from 2k-3,200 rpm. None of this is very very loud, but it is noticeable. The clutch pedal is also very hard/stiff and unforgiving.

    My car isn't a daily driver....i don't mind it at all and i expected it. I don't know if i'd want to drive with clients though. You may want to stick with the oem flywheel and run a more conservative map with lower boost. The great thing about stg2's (vtt or rb) is you can hold more boost higher into the rpm band, and that will definitely make your car noticeably faster. Even with a conservative map.
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  3. #3
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bobS Click here to enlarge
    The problem may not be so much that it won't hold the power, but at elevated boost levels, like you find by maxing out your stg2's, you'll get faulty misfire detection issues due to the Dual mass flywheel. Switching to the single mass flywheel eliminates those misfires.

    I will tell you, i have 550 miles on my new spec 3+ / spec steel single mass flywheel and it takes some getting used too. It definitely chatters and makes noise while sitting still and the clutch is not engaged. With the AC its worse. It also vibrates sound into the cabin while accelerating from 2k-3,200 rpm. None of this is very very loud, but it is noticeable. The clutch pedal is also very hard/stiff and unforgiving.

    My car isn't a daily driver....i don't mind it at all and i expected it. I don't know if i'd want to drive with clients though. You may want to stick with the oem flywheel and run a more conservative map with lower boost. The great thing about stg2's (vtt or rb) is you can hold more boost higher into the rpm band, and that will definitely make your car noticeably faster. Even with a conservative map.
    I'll echo that critique of the spec 3+ with steel fw, with the caveat that I've been putting a lot of miles on mine daily driving. No chatter at idle with the pedal down but out of gear with the pedal released it makes a bit of noise, definitely louder from outside or with windows open but not painful inside and barely noticeable with music playing. I was however surprised to find that between 1500 and 3000 miles it continued to make less and less harmonic vibrations under load at lower rpms. I had previously noted that anything under 2k rpm made undesirable noise, but I'm finding that 1st and second now are totally bearable from 1300-1500 and up, 3rd maybe 1700, and just based on driving style 4th/5th/6th probably won't be an issue. Just wanted to share that it kept getting better well after the 1500 miles that people often say is break-in period. For me even with stock turbos (18-19psi) the benefits were worth it even on a DD, but there will be a lot of new noises.

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    good to hear.... not that i really mind it, but if the harmonic vibrations lessen as it gets miles on it, thats a win for me. I do find it a little annoying that the engagement is so high and starting off from 1st requires more gas and it will stutter if not slipped perfect....

    Overall i'm happy with the setup, its real solid.
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    I have the spec stage 2+ with oem flywheel. Feels nearly stock and doesn't slip. Not one complaint so far and I've got about 7k on it now I think.
    Last edited by beakmoney; 09-06-2013 at 08:51 PM. Reason: iPad wanted to confuse the masses.

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    Yeah, the stutter is tricky. Sometimes it's so smooth, but sometimes it makes me look real dumb. Wish I knew the trick to get it every time.

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    I haven't ran my car over 3k rpm yet...still in break in. 600 miles without going into boost is torture....especially with this nice 60 degree, low humidity, north east air we have been getting recently
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bobS Click here to enlarge
    The problem may not be so much that it won't hold the power, but at elevated boost levels, like you find by maxing out your stg2's, you'll get faulty misfire detection issues due to the Dual mass flywheel. Switching to the single mass flywheel eliminates those misfires.

    I will tell you, i have 550 miles on my new spec 3+ / spec steel single mass flywheel and it takes some getting used too. It definitely chatters and makes noise while sitting still and the clutch is not engaged. With the AC its worse. It also vibrates sound into the cabin while accelerating from 2k-3,200 rpm. None of this is very very loud, but it is noticeable. The clutch pedal is also very hard/stiff and unforgiving.

    My car isn't a daily driver....i don't mind it at all and i expected it. I don't know if i'd want to drive with clients though. You may want to stick with the oem flywheel and run a more conservative map with lower boost. The great thing about stg2's (vtt or rb) is you can hold more boost higher into the rpm band, and that will definitely make your car noticeably faster. Even with a conservative map.
    Bob, We installed a 3+ in a customers car with the aluminum SMFW. I honestly thought pedal feel was spot on, the clutch engagement was very very smooth, and the pedal was light. The aluminum flywheel made some noise but this was his race car / driver and had race seats, a roll cage and straight pipes, a little clutch noise wasn't even noticeable. I actually just finished installing the SS SMFW and 3+ in the shop car this evening and will be putting the tranny back in tomorrow. Then suspension, then batch 2's are going in, then fuel system then exhaust and I will be on the road. Compared to the south bed clutch we had in the stage 3 car the spec was a dream, the SB engagement was so low and it was a bit tricky to get used to. Also bob if you are at 600 miles, you are well past break in, let her rip.

    Edit: I do have to say I am prob the least picky when it comes to cars doing weird $#@! and making noises, I drive a dodge truck with so much lope at idle the entire truck sways from side to side and I have to shut it off for anyone to hear me. So I am prob the not the person to ask about pedal feel and clutch chatter, I don't even hear it..Click here to enlarge

  9. #9
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    Tony, I'm a little picky for sure... It's not bad at all and I like the feel of this clutch over the stock one

    I left the car in the garage all weekend and am traveling for a couple days but I'll be ripping it next weekend!
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    OP, I would go OEM DMFW and 2+ clutch. I did this (had ACT before) and it is dead silent but he much better. Slight chatter at engagement if you don't leave right, but nothing out of the ordinary.

    Drivetrain rattle is not an option on a BMW for me.
    Change is constant

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    I agree with the above, if you are really concerned with the chatter, get new OEM DMFW they can be had for pretty cheap these days and just run that with whatever clutch you prefer. We ran one for all our stage 3 testing with thousands of pulls with the south bend clutch and it never made a peep and never gave us an issue from 500-725 WHP. So you shouldn't have an issue.

  12. #12
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    I agree with the above, if you are really concerned with the chatter, get new OEM DMFW they can be had for pretty cheap these days and just run that with whatever clutch you prefer. We ran one for all our stage 3 testing with thousands of pulls with the south bend clutch and it never made a peep and never gave us an issue from 500-725 WHP. So you shouldn't have an issue.
    Pretty sure dz had misfire detection turned off though when you guys were doing that.
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    He did, but I thought we were discussing drive train chatter, not the effect the DMFW can have and some misfires? Either way if you don't want noise, go DMFW, thats pretty much it. No other options

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    Thank you everyone for the responses. I will go with the spec2+ clutch and the OEM DMFW.
    Spec2+ Clutch, SS SMFW, BMS backend flash, VRSF DPs, ETS 5" FMIC, ER CP - Tial BOV, N20 3.5 Bar map sensor, BMS OCC, Walbro 255, Wavetrac LSD, Defiv Diff. lockdown kit, UUC EVO3 and DSSR, AFE DCI, H&R Coilovers, M3 Front control arms, rear arms, rear subframe bushings, Rogue Engineering transmission mounts, Michelin PSS 265/35/18 - 235/40/18, Apex ARC-8.

  15. #15
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    He did, but I thought we were discussing drive train chatter, not the effect the DMFW can have and some misfires? Either way if you don't want noise, go DMFW, thats pretty much it. No other options
    In his original post he said he's getting vtt stg2's, I'm thinking if he goes with the dmfw he'll have misfires when he cranks up the boost to take advantage of the stg2's . That's the only reason I went with the smfw over he dmfw.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bobS Click here to enlarge
    In his original post he said he's getting vtt stg2's, I'm thinking if he goes with the dmfw he'll have misfires when he cranks up the boost to take advantage of the stg2's . That's the only reason I went with the smfw over he dmfw.
    Yeah just read the first post again, I think the only people getting those misfires if I remember correctly were people over 600 WHP or approaching 600 WHP, I could be wrong, I think with any stock frame upgrade the DMFW is a fine option for people concerned about noise.

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    Oh ok, well my tuner said to get the smfw ... So I didClick here to enlarge
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bobS Click here to enlarge
    Oh ok, well my tuner said to get the smfw ... So I didClick here to enlarge
    I would too. You made the right choice

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    Single mass flywheel for sure. I wouldn't recommend staying with the oem dual mass on anything past 450wtq due to many of the reasons mentioned above but also safety concerns as I know now of at least a handful oem dual masses coming apart on people with enough torque. Not worth losing legs over some gear chatter.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@PTF Click here to enlarge
    Single mass flywheel for sure. I wouldn't recommend staying with the oem dual mass on anything past 450wtq due to many of the reasons mentioned above but also safety concerns as I know now of at least a handful oem dual masses coming apart on people with enough torque. Not worth losing legs over some gear chatter.
    Agreed. Had 3 clutch replacements once I was FBO and tuned. Wasn't until I replaced the oem dmfw the trans was able to hold the power.
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