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  1. #1
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    Boost leak without 30FF?

    Ok, so I'm helping a buddy with his 135i. From the logs it looks like he has a boost leak or something else is wrong. He's not getting 30FF though. How many of you have had boost leaks without 30FF? What else should I be looking for? Boost solenoid? I pulled the 135i charge pipe with that weird OEM BOV thing and replaced it with a normal 335i CP Friday night. CP clamps are good and elbow clamps are good. I'm going to put it on the lift friday and check the FMIC couplers. Mods are below:

    08 135i AT 69,000 miles (stock CP and DV)
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    2011 335is DCT, moving to Italy, looking for new car friends Click here to enlarge

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    I've had a small boost leak without a code before. 30FF is only triggered when you arn't reaching your boost targets. WGDC can still be elevated.

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    according to the log, it's not reaching target. it was targeting 16.2 fri night and only hitting 13.5.
    2011 335is DCT, moving to Italy, looking for new car friends Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bigdnno98 Click here to enlarge
    according to the log, it's not reaching target. it was targeting 16.2 fri night and only hitting 13.5.
    Wastegates getting sloppy can cause this, solenoids going out can cause it as well, as can a leak in the vacuum system. It may or may not throw a code, depends on how far off target it is.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bigdnno98 Click here to enlarge
    according to the log, it's not reaching target. it was targeting 16.2 fri night and only hitting 13.5.
    I believe the DME needs ~4 seconds of target deviation to throw the code.

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    Thanks guys. Car was in a fender bender last month. vacuum cansiters had to be replaced. I'm wondering if they screwed up the install on that.....
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bigdnno98 Click here to enlarge
    Thanks guys. Car was in a fender bender last month. vacuum cansiters had to be replaced. I'm wondering if they screwed up the install on that.....
    What likely happened is when the stock vacuum lines were removed from the damaged canisters, they were so dry rotted that cracks developed. The factory vacuum lines are really junk. Replacing them with good quality silicon lines is a relatively easy first step to solving boost control problems.
    Eppur si muove.

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    the lines look really good but still that braided OEM stuff. i know what you mean as far as them cracking around the nipples. i'll def take a look at that fri.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ajm8127 Click here to enlarge
    What likely happened is when the stock vacuum lines were removed from the damaged canisters, they were so dry rotted that cracks developed. The factory vacuum lines are really junk. Replacing them with good quality silicon lines is a relatively easy first step to solving boost control problems.
    2011 335is DCT, moving to Italy, looking for new car friends Click here to enlarge

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    Boost leak is definitely possible without 30FF. For the last few months i've been trying to diagnose a power loss issue and never thought it was a boost leak since I didn't have the code. Low and behold I drop it off at the shop and when they smoke test it, there was no o-ring in the charge pipe and it was leaking.

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    is this ISO or regular G5?

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    haha, yup. happened to a buddy of mine too, the o-ring that is. he threw a 30FF though. first thing i checked fri night was the CP though haha.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by psmith95 Click here to enlarge
    Boost leak is definitely possible without 30FF. For the last few months i've been trying to diagnose a power loss issue and never thought it was a boost leak since I didn't have the code. Low and behold I drop it off at the shop and when they smoke test it, there was no o-ring in the charge pipe and it was leaking.

    http://statigr.am/p/522493249191381924_55976505
    2011 335is DCT, moving to Italy, looking for new car friends Click here to enlarge

  12. #12
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    ISO

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge
    is this ISO or regular G5?
    2011 335is DCT, moving to Italy, looking for new car friends Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bigdnno98 Click here to enlarge
    ISO

    due to the way ISO boost control works, I am not entirely sure you'd throw a 30FF even if you had a boost leak. ISO sends a dummy feed that is equal to DME target, so it would be impossible to actually throw the code. on the older G4/nonISO G5 if you were going under the DME target for a sustained period of time you would throw the code.

    best way to check is logging PWM (which I suspect is maxed out at 86) and testing solenoids/vacuum lines first. if those check out, smoke test the system after ruling out anything obvious (e.g. loose FMIC clamp, loose charge pipe, etc.)

    but there are a TON of people underboosting since the recent firmware updates popping up more often now than previously. so don't rule out something on the tune end just yet either.

  14. #14
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    Interesting. Jason@BMS said that he was pretty sure it was a boost leak type hardware problem and never mentioned people undersboosting on the most recent firmware update.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge
    due to the way ISO boost control works, I am not entirely sure you'd throw a 30FF even if you had a boost leak. ISO sends a dummy feed that is equal to DME target, so it would be impossible to actually throw the code. on the older G4/nonISO G5 if you were going under the DME target for a sustained period of time you would throw the code.

    best way to check is logging PWM (which I suspect is maxed out at 86) and testing solenoids/vacuum lines first. if those check out, smoke test the system after ruling out anything obvious (e.g. loose FMIC clamp, loose charge pipe, etc.)

    but there are a TON of people underboosting since the recent firmware updates popping up more often now than previously. so don't rule out something on the tune end just yet either.
    2011 335is DCT, moving to Italy, looking for new car friends Click here to enlarge

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    I'd check vac lines and solenoids. I helped this one dude and he forgot to plug in the T to the OEM DVs, so they were bleeding off a good amount after 5-6 PSI charge pressure, but they did look connected.

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    haha, i've done that too. i checked that side already. i need to check by the vacuum canisters to make sure the shop put that all back together correctly when they replaced the vacuum canisters. next would be solenoids. how do i check that for proper solenoid operation?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Tzu Click here to enlarge
    I'd check vac lines and solenoids. I helped this one dude and he forgot to plug in the T to the OEM DVs, so they were bleeding off a good amount after 5-6 PSI charge pressure, but they did look connected.
    2011 335is DCT, moving to Italy, looking for new car friends Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bigdnno98 Click here to enlarge
    Interesting. Jason@BMS said that he was pretty sure it was a boost leak type hardware problem and never mentioned people undersboosting on the most recent firmware update.
    Try running an older firmware (ISO18-21) and re-log if you want to rule firmware out.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bigdnno98 Click here to enlarge
    haha, i've done that too. i checked that side already. i need to check by the vacuum canisters to make sure the shop put that all back together correctly when they replaced the vacuum canisters. next would be solenoids. how do i check that for proper solenoid operation?
    http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16548

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    good idea.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge
    Try running an older firmware (ISO18-21) and re-log if you want to rule firmware out.
    2011 335is DCT, moving to Italy, looking for new car friends Click here to enlarge

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    This is one of the only forums i can get on from my work computer. Click here to enlarge I'll have to check it out when i get home. thanks though. is there older firmware on the forum still? if not can you email me one? PM me if so. i'll shoot you my email address.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bigdnno98 Click here to enlarge
    This is one of the only forums i can get on from my work computer. Click here to enlarge I'll have to check it out when i get home. thanks though. is there older firmware on the forum still? if not can you email me one? PM me if so. i'll shoot you my email address.
    http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20371

  22. #22
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    LOL. i can't get on N54tech from my work computer haha. I'll check it out when i get home. Thanks.
    2011 335is DCT, moving to Italy, looking for new car friends Click here to enlarge

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    If you suspect a boost leak, really need to confirm hardware:
    1. WG vacuum... simple check is to correlate known WGDC to pump vacuum. For example 50% to around 25"Hg from the pump should yield maybe >16" (always higher then DC%). If you are close, prob good. If not then start checking lines... you can put vac pump on solenoid inlet line, cap the side not testing and cap the outlet to the booster with your thumb; any bleed should be very slow or none at all. Then check from solenoids to WG... again basically no bleed should be present. For solenoids you can isolate each one again referencing to WGDC at idle.
    2. Post turbo plumbing. Start with cap on IC inlet... I used pvc with tapped quick connect (Sniz DIY is good). Should hold 20psi with slow bleed... any leaks will be easily found. Unless its an obvious leak it doesn't have a huge effect on holding boost. Likely plumbing can be checked visually, while checking tightness of connections clamps. Tight worm clamp can have a hard to find, without compressor, slow leak but this does NOT greatly effect holding boost.
    3. DVs. Check vac tubing as mentioned. There's a couple DIYs on testing these with compressor. I just test with vac pump checking that diaphragm moves smoothly and holds vac.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge
    due to the way ISO boost control works, I am not entirely sure you'd throw a 30FF even if you had a boost leak. ISO sends a dummy feed that is equal to DME target, so it would be impossible to actually throw the code. on the older G4/nonISO G5 if you were going under the DME target for a sustained period of time you would throw the code.

    best way to check is logging PWM (which I suspect is maxed out at 86) and testing solenoids/vacuum lines first. if those check out, smoke test the system after ruling out anything obvious (e.g. loose FMIC clamp, loose charge pipe, etc.)

    but there are a TON of people underboosting since the recent firmware updates popping up more often now than previously. so don't rule out something on the tune end just yet either.
    I've noticed this behavior where the first gear I start a pull with will be about 1psi under target and as soon as I upshift it will then be right on target. Currently on iso22 here.
    11.76 @ 124 (123.9) full weight e92 335i, street tires, no meth.

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    With a cobb flash I had trouble triggering a 30FF code despite diverter valve(s) that were sticking open and a car that didn't want to go past 5psi until I was at 4500+ rpm. I mean, I stood on it and it wouldn't throw a 30FF. It finally did it in 4th gear at around 130 mph, which took about 2 hours to get to at 5psi. Oddly enough, I had a vac line break right at a diverter valve months later and it threw a 30FF within seconds of me driving aggressively on the highway. Usually the ECU is good but there are clearly circumstances, however rare, where a significant boost leak will evade throwing a code for whatever reason for a lot longer than seems reasonable. This one, she is fickle.

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