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  1. #26
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bigdnno98 Click here to enlarge
    how are you going to have 2 twin scroll turbos? there are only 6 exhaust ports. each turbo is going to get 3. twin scroll takes the exhaust gasses and sends them through a divided housing, one port is for quick response and the other is for top end. how are you going to divide 3 exhaust ports into 2 ports for the turbine housing? Yes the N63 does have 2 twin scroll turbos but..... it can divide the 4 exhaust ports on each side evenly, 2 per port in the turbine housing. runners for the smaller port are probably short in order to create higher velocity gasses to spool the turbo faster while the other runners are probably longer will less angle promoting better top end. bottom line is the S55 will not be twin-twin scroll. @VargasTurboTech please correct me if i'm way off here.
    BMW worked their manifold magic with the V8 although it makes more sense with that setup, yes. BMW is hyping the twin scroll stuff let's jut wait and see what they do with the manifold design.

    Also, it's the S63 that has the twin scroll turbos not the N63.
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  2. #27
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    ah, ok. i thought they both had twin-twin scroll turbos actually. the N63TU doesn't?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    BMW worked their manifold magic with the V8 although it makes more sense with that setup, yes. BMW is hyping the twin scroll stuff let's jut wait and see what they do with the manifold design.

    Also, it's the S63 that has the twin scroll turbos not the N63.
    2011 335is DCT, collecting parts....


  3. #28
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bigdnno98 Click here to enlarge
    ah, ok. i thought they both had twin-twin scroll turbos actually. the N63TU doesn't?
    No the S63 advantage is its trick manifold and turbos. Everything else is basically the same between the motors.
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  4. #29
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MisterEm Click here to enlarge
    You missed the main point and it is not fuel efficiency nor peak HP. A loss of 220 lbs over the 4 series variant (if true) is a major improvement and is "///M philosophy" to a T. Shave 220 lbs from your E9X M3 or E46 M3 and change NOTHING else - and it will transform the driving dynamics of the car - acceleration, handling, turn-in and braking.

    Secondly, the throttle response component you mention is mere speculation. I doubt the difference in responsiveness between the outgoing powerplant and the new one is the chasm you implied. The motor will be less responsive than the N/A V8 no doubt - but not on par with the turbo-lag conspiracy I have been hearing from E9X owners. If we use the current turbo charged motors in the fleet as a comparison - F30 328, 335, and the 328d - we should be expecting slightly better responsiveness to merit the M badge.

    I want to see the final weight of the sedan, and a stock dyno plot (particularly the torque curve) before I cast final judgement and a deposit.
    Exactly with less weight everything improves. How does adding horsepower improve braking or handling? Less weight will also mean the car won't get overwhelmed quite as fast.
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  5. #30
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    Amazing that 416HP and 400 ft. lb. of torque from a 4L I6 is deemed "not enough."

  6. #31
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by maxnix Click here to enlarge
    Amazing that 416HP and 400 ft. lb. of torque from a 4L I6 is deemed "not enough."
    3.0 liter.

    I find that amusing with the fanboys attacking the S65 V8 for a perceived lack of power.
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  7. #32
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    I was thinking of that when I posted earlier.

    415hp from 3.0l is actually quite impressive for a stock motor. Even better to get 450hp with the power pack if you want to shell out the cash for OEM tune.

    How it stacks up to the competition will need to be seen. If the weight is truly down as low as they speculate, this car will be quite impressive even against the higher power competitors. I have a hard time believing this thing is 33xx even unladen.
    Current: '00 S2000
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  8. #33
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by whoosh Click here to enlarge
    I have a hard time believing this thing is 33xx even unladen.
    Same here.
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  9. #34
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    3300 lb unladen... love how we have gone from laden weight specs 10 years ago to unladen ... so with a tank of gas, me, my dog and stuff and a lightweight broad this thing will be 3900 lbs

  10. #35
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Group.america Click here to enlarge
    3300 lb unladen... love how we have gone from laden weight specs 10 years ago to unladen ... so with a tank of gas, me, my dog and stuff and a lightweight broad this thing will be 3900 lbs
    Laden specs make no sense. Why count variables? The car doesn't change in weight but your broad does.
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  11. #36
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    Leave the dog and stuff at home, and why are you ever letting your broad out of the kitchen?
    Current: '00 S2000
    Previous: '15 M235i xDrive | '15 Macan S | '15 WRX STi | '06 Cayman S | '12 E92 335is w/JB4 | '10 STi

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Laden specs make no sense. Why count variables? The car doesn't change in weight but your broad does.
    Exactly. This were a lot of the confusion is going to come. People will go on BMWUSA and quote the unladen E92 M3 weight of 3,700 lbs and think oh the new M4 is so much lighter. In actuality when you put the E92 on scales it is much lighter. BMW is going to continue to play games with weight figures in all marketing up until its debut in Detroit. Flaunting weight figures left and right. It all started with the rumor of near E46 M3 weight.

    Funny thing is you can go on BMWUSA right now, the 435i weighs more than the E92 335i.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Group.america Click here to enlarge
    3300 lb unladen... love how we have gone from laden weight specs 10 years ago to unladen ... so with a tank of gas, me, my dog and stuff and a lightweight broad this thing will be 3900 lbs
    Add to that, they are using a weight from a fully optioned M4. Carbon fiber seats, carbon ceramic brakes, etc...

    The seats won't even make it to the US.

  14. #39
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BlackJetE90OC Click here to enlarge
    People will go on BMWUSA and quote the unladen E92 M3 weight of 3,700 lbs and think oh the new M4 is so much lighter. In actuality when you put the E92 on scales it is much lighter
    This is where the misconception the E92 is heavy comes from and trying to explain it to people is almost impossible. I just accept them as stupid and move on.
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  15. #40
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BlackJetE90OC Click here to enlarge
    Add to that, they are using a weight from a fully optioned M4. Carbon fiber seats, carbon ceramic brakes, etc...

    The seats won't even make it to the US.
    Good point on the seats. The seats never make it...
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    Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge

    3855 (our cheater car - lol)

    Subtract 235lb driver = 3,625. Car had VF620, Brembos, 2 Racetech seats, pictured wheels/tires - otherwise stock.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BlackJetE90OC Click here to enlarge
    Exactly. This were a lot of the confusion is going to come. People will go on BMWUSA and quote the unladen E92 M3 weight of 3,700 lbs and think oh the new M4 is so much lighter. In actuality when you put the E92 on scales it is much lighter.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Laden specs make no sense. Why count variables? The car doesn't change in weight but your broad does.
    I agree...its $#@!ing stupid adding weight for driver and luggage. Who the $#@! drives around with luggage? Just weigh the $#@!ing car...I could see requiring a certain amount of gas but that's it.
    ​#Chuckstrong

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Good point on the seats. The seats never make it...
    Which is bull$#@!!
    ​#Chuckstrong

  19. #44
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    Were talking 415hp to the crank, right? So -15% for drivetrain loss. Thats around 352 to the wheels. Not impressed...

  20. #45
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by KB Click here to enlarge
    I agree...its $#@!ing stupid adding weight for driver and luggage. Who the $#@! drives around with luggage? Just weigh the $#@!ing car...I could see requiring a certain amount of gas but that's it.
    It's just $#@!ing dumb and I remember some idiot telling me on the forums it makes more sense to count it with the driver. And I'm thinking, yeah, because all drivers weigh the same right?
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  21. #46
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by KB Click here to enlarge
    Which is bull$#@!!
    'Merica
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  22. #47
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by timore Click here to enlarge
    Were talking 415hp to the crank, right? So -15% for drivetrain loss. Thats around 352 to the wheels. Not impressed...
    You obviously are not familiar with BMW underrating their turbo motors and that 15% is a contrived standard. Not impressed...
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    Whenever I get a new car, I take the 90-weight out of the rear diff and put Wesson oil in there. That gets me down to 14.34% drivetrain loss. $#@! the next guy that owns the car.
    Current: '00 S2000
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bigdnno98 Click here to enlarge
    how are you going to have 2 twin scroll turbos? there are only 6 exhaust ports. each turbo is going to get 3. twin scroll takes the exhaust gasses and sends them through a divided housing, one port is for quick response and the other is for top end. how are you going to divide 3 exhaust ports into 2 ports for the turbine housing? Yes the N63 does have 2 twin scroll turbos but..... it can divide the 4 exhaust ports on each side evenly, 2 per port in the turbine housing. runners for the smaller port are probably short in order to create higher velocity gasses to spool the turbo faster while the other runners are probably longer will less angle promoting better top end. bottom line is the S55 will not be twin-twin scroll. @VargasTurboTech please correct me if i'm way off here.
    Answering from the Wisconsin woods for my one hour a day allowed internet time. They cannot be twin scroll. You need an even number of exhaust pulses to create the twin scroll effect, a TT I6 cannot be Twin Scroll. It will have turbos similar to the N54, they will be small twins. The TT V8 M5's use Twins scroll the 550's use the same turbos but non twin scroll. The guy saying you use a different turbine wheel for the Twinscroll design is also not correct, same turbine wheel, all the Twinscroll does it put the exhaust pulses in the correct order so they do not fight each other and make them more efficient.

  25. #50
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    Answering from the Wisconsin woods for my one hour a day allowed internet time. They cannot be twin scroll. You need an even number of exhaust pulses to create the twin scroll effect, a TT I6 cannot be Twin Scroll. It will have turbos similar to the N54, they will be small twins. The TT V8 M5's use Twins scroll the 550's use the same turbos but non twin scroll. The guy saying you use a different turbine wheel for the Twinscroll design is also not correct, same turbine wheel, all the Twinscroll does it put the exhaust pulses in the correct order so they do not fight each other and make them more efficient.
    But what if they were to a do a manifold that would evenly split exhaust gases for even exhaust pulses similar to what they do with the S63? I mean you can have a single turbo I6 twin scroll right?
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