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  1. #51
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by klipseracer Click here to enlarge
    I'm not defending anyone, but his mention of 'its a different dyno' is probably a reference to the fact that dynos read differently and when it comes down to the horsepower there is going to be variance. I do find it a bit odd that any ASR parts are used, that is something that certainly could have educational value in terms of research and development but not really something that would get advertised in my personal opinion as this is just asking for confusion. I made my wife cum all over the walls, by the way bubba just left my house.
    Lets be PERFECTLY clear, I mentioned ASR because I am an honest person and like full disclosure. THE ONLY THING ASR on those turbos is a welded plate to an N54 housing. THAT IS IT. The rest of the parts are off the shelf garret parts, all of them except the comp wheel. I got every single part I needed to build and make these turbos better directly from my garerrt vendor. The turbine wheel in there is a garrett not a custom ASR piece, the bearing housing, garrett not ASR, the internals, garrett not ASR, the compressor wheel now that is a custom wheel we had made to our specs. See where we are here. Calling these things ASR's is actually not the case. We took a turbine housing ASR welded a plate onto and use this housing to test a garrett profile wheel and our compressor wheels. I have zero problem with Terry speaking his mind, where I do have the problem is him playing both sides of the fence, you want to back RB in my threads, then back him all the way, shoot me an email and we can get all your deposits refunded on the N55 and the stage 3 and you and Rob can work it out for your projects. A little loyalty goes a long way. Every time I sell a set of turbos. I suggest Cobb via PTF and jb via BMS as viable tuning methods, why because I work with Dzenno and Cobb and I work with Terry. I have never gotten into a thread where Terry posted a dyno sheet and started bashing it and saying a flash tune is better, I would never. So if this is true colors showing up then so be it, I understand Terry and D have different outlooks and ways of doing things, but if it has to do with one of my products, I would think Terry would be a little more respectful. Thats how I see it
    Last edited by Tony@VargasTurboTech; 08-16-2013 at 05:35 PM.

  2. #52
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    You had RB turbos on the car with the factory motor, right?

    If the intent here is to lead a discussion about your new turbos then why didn't you just post a comparison dyno & log from each set matching up as many variables as you can on your end. Like matching boost & advance curves in the logs then comparing the resulting dyno charts. Or comparing spool tests for each. Those would both be interesting angles of discussion that don't involve any other tuners or individuals for you or Tony to cry bias over.
    You do remember that but you seem to forget that ATR/ATP wasn't available back at that time and that I had no way to tune the car myself and the most aggressive tune I could run was one with 5-10deg of timing making 475-480whp back then.

    The intent of this thread was to post numbers about a set of test turbos I got from Tony as I had no others to run right now on the car and to show something we've done recently. You've clearly interpreted it yet again in your own special way and can't hold yourself back from posting the way you are.
    Click here to enlarge

  3. #53
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    Nice thread, although a datalog of these VVT/ASR turbos would be awesome. But why relate a “future” turbo’s performance to a current “different” turbo. When maxing out these small frame turbos, what is thought to be a minor difference can make a big impact.

    Yes, please dumb down the differences to RBs... since they were brought up.
    I believe compressor wheel has similar size but different design
    What is the turbine’s wheel measurements?
    CHRA used?
    WGs altered from stock for this design?
    Any special machining needed?

    Good thread and rev2 looks promising… if you can truly use this as a comparison.

    Wait, I re-read a couple of posts
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    The turbines in these are slightly larger then the stage 2 batch 2 but Dzenno is running into the exact same boost / WGDC limits as with RB TD04L's and the stage 1 batch 1's turbine on these.
    Come on turbo guy Tony. If the turbine sizes are different you can’t relate boost and WGDC. If these are the same when turbine variable is NOT, what has to change? You can’t have everything equal, except 1 variable with equal results, as you are alluding to. These are basically maxed out and yes turbine size will make a different… potentially substantial... even with tiny A/R. You can’t relate this application to others with more typical BPs.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    D will get these on race gas and turn them up and should get another nice gain pushing them even further past the RB's, showing that the bigger turbine wheel in these is worth quite a few more ponys over the RB's. The batch 2's should perform very close to these and will do so while keeping longevity in mind.
    From what I thought I knew about rev2 and RBs… are you stating that smaller turbine wheel in VVT rev2s will perform equally/better than RBs due to the new compressor wheel design… ALL based on this VVT/ASR dyno and datalog. That’s quite a many steps to reach a conclusion.

    If you could sum it up with specs, this would be great. I’m getting confused.

  4. #54
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    And no offense to anyone in here, Just from a non-technical, observant end user perspective, mixing brand names, especially one like asr is a bit different. I'm not saying you are copying their stuff or anything as I do not know what so ever.

    I still like tits.
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  5. #55
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    It's a dyno chart and a log. Nothing more. Nothing less. It shows boost, timing, AFR, and duty cycle, all which may be interesting things to discuss compared to other dynos. That is why I included it with the dyno. I do not have physic powers to predict how you've tuned your car or even that you've tuned it at all. If you now feel the tuning details are relevant then why have you not posted a log with the dyno yet?
    There's a log Terry. Have fun. You do realize if others want to manipulate logs its a text file and they can right? Why do you feel the need to portray there's always something undisclosed and unsaid? The same could be said about you yet I don't go into your thread and start claiming half truths etc Not that there aren't reasons or space for such comments, there always is.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Click here to enlarge

  6. #56
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@PTF Click here to enlarge
    There's a log Terry. Have fun. You do realize if others want to manipulate logs its a text file and they can right? Why do you feel the need to portray there's always something undisclosed and unsaid? The same could be said about you yet I don't go into your thread and start claiming half truths etc Not that there aren't reasons or space for such comments, there always is.
    I don't want to convert your log in to a picture and I'm not accusing you of forging data. I'm saying if you want to discuss the specifics then put up a log so they can be discussed.
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    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

  7. #57
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    I don't want to convert your log in to a picture and I'm not accusing you of forging data. I'm saying if you want to discuss the specifics then put up a log so they can be discussed.
    Great. What do you think of the log?
    Click here to enlarge

  8. #58
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@PTF Click here to enlarge
    Great. What do you think of the log?
    Post it up in a chart and I'd be happy to check it out. I don't do excel. Sorry. Click here to enlarge
    Burger Motorsports
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    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

  9. #59
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by klipseracer Click here to enlarge
    And no offense to anyone in here, Just from a non-technical, observant end user perspective, mixing brand names, especially one like asr is a bit different. I'm not saying you are copying their stuff or anything as I do not know what so ever.

    I still like tits.
    TO BE CLEAR AGAIN as people cannot seem to read. We used an ASR housing as we have it available to us and it fits a garrett profile wheel, for testing purposes only, as I said in my first post, we would NEVER use it for anything else, nor produce these. You guys can bicker about this all weekend, I will not be near a computer and will enjoy it very much.

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    3 out of 3 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by klipseracer Click here to enlarge
    And no offense to anyone in here, Just from a non-technical, observant end user perspective, mixing brand names, especially one like asr is a bit different. I'm not saying you are copying their stuff or anything as I do not know what so ever.

    I still like tits.
    I honestly have re-read almost this entire thread 2-3 times, and I just don't see why anyone would get the impression ASR had much of anything to do with these. I thought this was a case that a vendor, VTT in this instance cleared the air up front about another vendor's part used on his since there doesn't seem any reason to hide it and have some idiot catch wind of an ASR plate and start a foolish rumor. I thought Tony deserved some good rep for the first post he made in this forum, between the first two posts, this thread was looking good!

    Now what? Terry makes a post that objectively is not a stab at VTT (just saying from my POV it was pretty innocent) and now $#@! hits the fan? Tony, I completely understand being pissed if someone tried to undermine your product, downplay it, especially if it was someone that you had a positive professional relationship with, but I honestly didn't view his post as being that. If it was, than that's pretty $#@!ty. I mean if Dzenno would have just posted a log and shown the differences in timing and pointed out to all of us consumers the differences in how the two cars achieved power, this probably woulda been a done deal. But now drama...and us consumers have to read through a bunch of bull$#@! to actually get good info from the forums...once again....and you guys wonder why you get so many emails? Maybe cause us consumers get tired of reading 200 pages of bull$#@! on forums to get a an answer that could be said in one sentence in an email....just sayin guys...I honestly have spent a lot of money on my ride and mostly from BMS and VTT, and was contacting PTF about an LSD, I mean you all make great products, I just don't get the cut throatness from you guys. IT SUCKS!

    @RBTurbo...seriously? WTF was that post? I don't know you or know the complete past between you guys, but that was just plain childish, I take you for a smart guy, so if you had something constructive to add to the conversation then do it with facts, logic, and reason.
    @klipseracer I like tits too, preferably larger than a "B" cup, but B's are still passable if the girl is 5' nothing and a size 0. Cause then it's just proportionate.
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  11. #61
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    where I do have the problem is him playing both sides of the fence, you want to back RB in my threads, then back him all the way, shoot me an email and we can get all your deposits refunded on the N55 and the stage 3 and you and Rob can work it out for your projects. A little loyalty goes a long way.
    To be clear I'm not here to tow anyone's company line. I like you and what you're doing for the community. I also like Rob and what he is doing for the community. I chimed in here because this was the first reasonable dynos of your Stage2 turbos I've read and I wanted to check out the details. Then I saw you and Rob going at it and felt obligated to point out 520rw is pretty much par for the course here. Now maybe your turbos can make 550rw with more aggressive tuning. Maybe not. I don't know. I can say with certainty that Rob's can't make more than 530rw at least on my car and dyno. Regardless I was hoping YOU & ROB would discuss the various details further.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mjmarovi Click here to enlarge
    I honestly have re-read almost this entire thread 2-3 times, and I just don't see why anyone would get the impression ASR had much of anything to do with these. I thought this was a case that a vendor, VTT in this instance cleared the air up front about another vendor's part used on his since there doesn't seem any reason to hide it and have some idiot catch wind of an ASR plate and start a foolish rumor. I thought Tony deserved some good rep for the first post he made in this forum, between the first two posts, this thread was looking good!

    Now what? Terry makes a post that objectively is not a stab at VTT (just saying from my POV it was pretty innocent) and now $#@! hits the fan? Tony, I completely understand being pissed if someone tried to undermine your product, downplay it, especially if it was someone that you had a positive professional relationship with, but I honestly didn't view his post as being that. If it was, than that's pretty $#@!ty. I mean if Dzenno would have just posted a log and shown the differences in timing and pointed out to all of us consumers the differences in how the two cars achieved power, this probably woulda been a done deal. But now drama...and us consumers have to read through a bunch of bull$#@! to actually get good info from the forums...once again....and you guys wonder why you get so many emails? Maybe cause us consumers get tired of reading 200 pages of bull$#@! on forums to get a an answer that could be said in one sentence in an email....just sayin guys...I honestly have spent a lot of money on my ride and mostly from BMS and VTT, and was contacting PTF about an LSD, I mean you all make great products, I just don't get the cut throatness from you guys. IT SUCKS!

    @RBTurbo...seriously? WTF was that post? I don't know you or know the complete past between you guys, but that was just plain childish, I take you for a smart guy, so if you had something constructive to add to the conversation then do it with facts, logic, and reason.
    @klipseracer I like tits too, preferably larger than a "B" cup, but B's are still passable if the girl is 5' nothing and a size 0. Cause then it's just proportionate.
    I have nothing against anyone here, I was hesitant to post these results at all as these are literally test vehicles for me that will never see another car except for dzennos. I basically gave them to him and said see what you can get out of these, it will give us some insight into the garrett turbines and the billet compressors. I really like Terry, he is a cool as guy who is always always always helpful as hell, and helpful quickly on weekends, night time you name it. I know him and D don't see eye to eye and it seems like anytime I happen to be involved in a project that D tuned, Terry has to come in and not fully bash it, but hint he could do better and kinda put it down. My problem is I let feelings get involved because I take pride in our work. I should just read it objectively and leave it at that. Terry you are welcome to say anything you wish, just use some tact if you don't mind. These turbos are test vessels. Thats it, if I wanted to copy something don' t you think I would have just bought a set of RB's 9 months ago and copied them. It would have been damn simple, but we do not work that way. The amount of work it takes to get this garrett plate on the N54 housing is just plain not worth it, the housing is still limited by the AR ratio. I apologize if my comments seemed out of line, as I said I just take pride and I was on the fence about posting these results from test turbos. But here we are and its a good discussion.

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    What a $#@!ing mess. We are better than this guys, leave that $#@! on honda-tech err, E90post.
    2011 E90 M3 \ Melbourne Rot Metallic

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    This thread went down the drain.

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    A log in the first post could have prevented all this bull$#@!. Terry always post's logs no matter what. One needs all the relevant info and most of it is in a log.
    Nice numbers BTW.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Dirty Dog Click here to enlarge
    A log on the first post could have prevented all this bull$#@!. Terry always post's logs no matter what. One needs all the relevant info and most of it is in a log.
    A log would not have prevented any of this BS. 99% of the bs is not about logs. Its about nothing. This thread has clearly went down the drain. I did all I could to prevent it. posted early with everything going on with the turbos, and ignored a post from a competing vendor who only posted to start drama. It is what it is. Dzenno will keep pushing these until we see a limit, people will always find something to argue about.

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    Nice results!!!
    good job T & D
    keep up the good work
    Cobb tuned, spec2+, wavetrac, DCI, ARdp's, AA fmic, forge DV's, M3 links & Sways, bbs lm's, bunch of exterior mods, and one happy BMW driver

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    Next on Days of our lives... Terry and Dzenno go head to head about Tony's and Rob's products....


    I agree all of the people involved in this tiff are better then this. All of them have offered amazing contributions to this community and continue to push the envelope. I am glad that all of them have different perspectives and I believe it helps drive the platform further. So please keep on with the technical conversations and less of the hate flinging.

    Please feel free to delete my post as well as the junk in this thread.

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    Yawn. These defensive posts towards terry for posting dyno results and logs is tired. If you don't want to be measured against your competition then maybe you guys are in the wrong lines of work. Every company anywhere gets judged not only on their results but the results of their direct competition. Tony has been in business long enough to know this, maybe d hasn't yet but it's coming across as childish whining because big bad terry came into your threads and posted (gasp) a comparison. This isn't the forum where whining wins you points and customers, here you put up or shut up.
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    Ha nice thread... I'm excited that I have batch 2 vtt 2 's on order.... They are going to be sick! Click here to enlarge
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Dirty Dog Click here to enlarge
    A log in the first post could have prevented all this bull$#@!. Terry always post's logs no matter what. One needs all the relevant info and most of it is in a log.
    Nice numbers BTW.
    Thanks for a moment I felt like I was the only sane person in the room. I just read my posts again and I don't see how anyone can even interpret them as me putting down D or Vargas turbos.

    This was Tony's first post to me:

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Tony
    Terry, I agree with you and I could care less if this is a record or not with these turbos. Someone said it was so I said it was. If you can show me an RB car making 523 on 93 and meth at 21 psi peak to 16.6 psi then so be it, I do not care. But an RB car just needed 24 psi peak to 21 psi redline on 100 OCT plus meth to make 521.
    So at his request I attached an older dyno chart and log I had from a local customer showing how we commonly tune RB turbos. Then everyone gets defensive and starts crying foul. It's all so odd.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    lol I don't see how anyone can read my posts as me being against anyone, except maybe e90post & Shiv. But honestly I even find things to like about Shiv from time to time. I think some of the readers here may just be predisposed to the false notion that any objective discussion is intended as a personal bash.
    despite what you think of me is very wrong terry


    you have all my respect yet
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rader1 Click here to enlarge
    Less than a couple hours. I'm at 7-11 right down the road from the dyno eating a Hot dog as i type this lol
    Any info @rader1 ?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rader1 Click here to enlarge
    Less than a couple hours. I'm at 7-11 right down the road from the dyno eating a Hot dog as i type this lol

    And.....it's been like 11 hours...lol
    2009 335i coupe back to stock...for now

    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mjmarovi Click here to enlarge
    And.....it's been like 11 hours...lol
    Maybe he's still in the bathroom...7-11 hot dogs man...
    2008 135 GIAC Stage II Race File
    2011 335d Stock

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