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  1. #26
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    this forum lately wars terry vs dzenno
    now rob vs toni Click here to enlarge
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mjmarovi Click here to enlarge
    Confused? Apparently you didn't read Tony's (VTT) post LOL....why don't you use the scroll button and re-read his post. short answer, yes, we should see same results with Stage 2 Batch 2.....
    I did read his post prior to asking.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    Hey D, thanks for posting up the results. I will leave any tuning discussion go Dzenno, but my understanding is he wants to run low boost instead of really cranking on these things. These are not exactly Stage 2 batch 2, but very similar. These are using the ASR hot side from the set of cores we had, why I wanted to test these is because they use the exact same Garrett profile on the turbine wheel as Stage 2 batch 2 and we didn't have out batch 2 wheels in yet nor have a housing machined for them at the time, also we used our billet wheels for the compressor. The turbines in these are slightly larger then the stage 2 batch 2 but Dzenno is running into the exact same boost / WGDC limits as with RB TD04L's and the stage 1 batch 1's turbine on these. Meaning as we stated in the past with the housing being the limiting factor going bigger on the wheel will only help to a point, what these were built for is to test the Garrett profile and and billet compressor wheels, thats it, this exact combination will never be produced by us. As you can see they are performing very well, using the garret turbine wheel and billet compressors. We should have a test set of stage 2 batch 2's here in the next week or so and expect the same type of numbers from them. I attached a couple pics of these turbos so you guys can see the billet wheel and garrett profile turbine.
    Great explanation Tony, can't wait to see more. I have a feeling we will see great consistency with your product and the S2B2's specifically.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mjmarovi Click here to enlarge
    Great explanation Tony, can't wait to see more. I have a feeling we will see great consistency with your product and the S2B2's specifically.
    I'm sure this post gets you excited. Once you spank me a few times I'm going to be forced to upgrade.
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    I have no idea what Rob wrote, I have all his posts on this site blocked as he is becoming close to as big of a BS artist as Shiv, Bottom line, we now own the Stock frame turbo record, and the next best number is on race gas and a LOT more boost. D will get these on race gas and turn them up and should get another nice gain pushing them even further past the RB's, showing that the bigger turbine wheel in these is worth quite a few more ponys over the RB's. The batch 2's should perform very close to these and will do so while keeping longevity in mind. Using better flowing wheels means you are working them a lot less hard for the same power. Let Rob say what he wants. As I said I cant read it, but I am sure its very classy as per his usual.

  6. #31
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by carcars Click here to enlarge
    this forum lately wars terry vs dzenno
    now rob vs toni Click here to enlarge
    Eh hmmmm. Its Tony, Toni is a girls name...Click here to enlargeClick here to enlarge

  7. #32
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    I have no idea what Rob wrote, I have all his posts on this site blocked as he is becoming close to as big of a BS artist as Shiv, Bottom line, we now own the Stock frame turbo record, and the next best number is on race gas and a LOT more boost. D will get these on race gas and turn them up and should get another nice gain pushing them even further past the RB's, showing that the bigger turbine wheel in these is worth quite a few more ponys over the RB's. The batch 2's should perform very close to these and will do so while keeping longevity in mind. Using better flowing wheels means you are working them a lot less hard for the same power. Let Rob say what he wants. As I said I cant read it, but I am sure its very classy as per his usual.
    We've had plenty of customers make 520rw+ over the years so I don't think 523rw is a record. I'm sure 550rw is though. But records aside I think what would be best would be just to focus on the products, what they have in common, and what is different. Making peak power is a very important factor. But how it holds that power to redline, the risks for smoking, potential logevity, spool, etc, are also important factors and I'm sure readers would be interested to read about.
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  8. #33
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    We've had plenty of customers make 520rw+ over the years so I don't think 523rw is a record. I'm sure 550rw is though. But records aside I think what would be best would be just to focus on the products, what they have in common, and what is different. Making peak power is a very important factor. But how it holds that power to redline, the risks for smoking, potential logevity, spool, etc, are also important factors and I'm sure readers would be interested to read about.
    Terry, I agree with you and I could care less if this is a record or not with these turbos. Someone said it was so I said it was. If you can show me an RB car making 523 on 93 and meth at 21 psi peak to 16.6 psi then so be it, I do not care. But an RB car just needed 24 psi peak to 21 psi redline on 100 OCT plus meth to make 521. These turbos are nothing but a test bed to test the garrett profile and the billet compressor wheels. We used the ASR hot side as we had a set sitting there, and they alreadu used the same garrett profile we were going to use. I am sure someone will say they are ASR turbos, actually we changed a LOT on them, they had a lot of issues. The only thing ASR is the machined turbine housing and the wheel. Also if these are ASR's. Please show me some ASR's making this power on this fuel and timing. As far as focusing on the products, thats what I did. I made very thorough description of what these are, no hidden surprises. I am not sure I follow you, you want me to go over the difference between RB's and our turbos again? It has been very well documented the steps we have taken to increase longevity from the thrust upgrades to the wheel upgrades to allow the turbos to move the same amount of air while working harder, in turn helping them last longer. I would rather not go there again. I can tell you, if you can run your turbos at 21 peak and 16.6 redline and make 525, they will last a long time.

  9. #34
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    1 out of 2 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    It's from a different dyno so not sure how relevant it is, but here is customer MT FBO RB turbo dyno from around 11/2012. Using meth. Did D post the dyno log chart so we can compare boost, timing, PWM, etc?
    Attached Images Attached Images   
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    It's from a different dyno so not sure how relevant it is, but here is customer MT FBO RB turbo dyno from around 11/2012. Using meth. Did D post the dyno log chart so we can compare boost, timing, PWM, etc?
    Terry, what is your point. Lets be very clear here. No bull$#@!. Are you trying to bash VTT and promote RB's in a thread about my products? Because if you are then I need to rethink our relationship. So either come out say it straight up or don't but right now you are clearly trying to discount something we are doing. Why, who knows.

    Also this "its from a different dyno so not sure how its relevant" makes no sense. Thats like saying, Ok guys listen up, if anyone want to make any comparisons what so ever, you need to ALL come to the same dyno and run your cars, if not, yeah its not relevant. Come one man, you are smarter than this. Just stop with the backhanded garbage already
    Last edited by Tony@VargasTurboTech; 08-16-2013 at 04:05 PM.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    Terry, what is your point. Lets be very clear here. No bull$#@!. Are you trying to bash VTT and promote RB's in a thread about my products? Because if you are then I need to rethink our relationship. So either come out say it straight up or don't but right now you are clearly trying to discount something we are doing. Why, who knows.
    lol, really? BMS has sent you how much money and how many free parts now, despite your occasional rants, and now you're going to make a post like that? If you feel that way then feel free to ship all our stuff & money back and we'll go another direction. I like that you are trying to innovate and do things a little differently. I even like that D tries to do things a little differently. But you have to be secure enough in what you're doing to be willing to discuss it objectively.

    On the dyno I don't see how you take my post as bashing anything. That is a customer RB dyno with corresponding data. The first one I happened to click on in my dyno folder that had RB turbos. That's a fact. D posted a dyno which is also a fact. So I'm saying rather than you & Rob bickering over nonsense let's just look at the objective facts and discuss the differences between the two approaches.
    Burger Motorsports
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  12. #37
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by carcars Click here to enlarge
    this forum lately wars terry vs dzenno
    now rob vs toni Click here to enlarge
    lol I don't see how anyone can read my posts as me being against anyone, except maybe e90post & Shiv. But honestly I even find things to like about Shiv from time to time. I think some of the readers here may just be predisposed to the false notion that any objective discussion is intended as a personal bash.
    Burger Motorsports
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    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

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    7 out of 7 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Terry has always been the coolest headed of all of the vendors on here from my experience with Tony being the least. D in the middle.

    Unless you make the 1st post specifically say 'don't post RB dynos' or 'stay the $#@! out of my thread' or you block the people when you make the thread don't come and $#@! about their posts.

    I swear this forum has more drama from the vendors than the users.

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    Terry, you're a vendor and have been one for about 5-6 years. It took me personally a number of months after becoming a vendor on the forums to stay away from commenting in an open way that I used to in other vendors' threads. I don't see see it appropriate anymore given I'm no longer just in a position of an enthusiast. It serves nothing but but a waste of time and turns every single thread in a pissing match with everyone.

    I've shown enough respect towards you over the years. I've already said on a couple occasions that I am not posting in a non-constructive way or in any way that could/would even remotely be interpreted as negative criticism by anyone including any BMS die hard fans. Since becoming a vendor I've learned that there's no need for that and that results always speak louder than words.

    It would be great if you could extend the same courtesy. Your discussions are simply not objective and are always biased and swing towards BMS' results which I don't blame you for but please stay out of our threads. Is that too much to ask?
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@PTF Click here to enlarge
    Terry, you're a vendor and have been one for about 5-6 years. It took me personally a number of months after becoming a vendor on the forums to stay away from commenting in an open way that I used to. I don't see see it appropriate anymore given we are vendors and I was also representing a company. It serves nothing but but a waste of time and turns every single thread in a pissing match with everyone.

    I've shown enough respect towards you over the years. I've already said on a couple occasions that I am not posting in a non-constructive way or in any way that could/would even remotely be interpreted as negative criticism by anyone including any BMS die hard fans. Since becoming a vendor I've learned that there's no need for that and that results always speak louder than words.

    It would be great if you could extend the same courtesy. Your discussions are simply not objective and are always biased and swing towards BMS' results which I don't blame you for but please stay out of our threads. Is that too much to ask?
    Then block him, you have the ability. Or accept the fact the thread may get derailed and you may get opposing opinions.

    This is business, hoping other companies will act like gentlemen, play nice, or stay out of your threads is unrealistic.

  16. #41
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Torgus Click here to enlarge
    Then block him, you have the ability.
    I'd rather not. I do and have always enjoyed constructive feedback from everyone. Marketing tactics is what I'd like others to tone down when not in their own threads if possible as its healthier for the community at large.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@PTF Click here to enlarge
    I'd rather not. I do and have always enjoyed constructive feedback from everyone. Marketing tactics is what I'd like others to tone down when not in their own threads if possible as its healthier for the community at large.
    I agree and I feel like I learn more when you two give your own opinions like on the best way to run meth for instance. But it's hard to have it both ways.

    If I was a vendor I would love & hate the fact forums exist.

  18. #43
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@PTF Click here to enlarge
    Terry, you're a vendor and have been one for about 5-6 years. It took me personally a number of months after becoming a vendor on the forums to stay away from commenting in an open way that I used to in other vendors' threads. I don't see see it appropriate anymore given I'm no longer just in a position of an enthusiast. It serves nothing but but a waste of time and turns every single thread in a pissing match with everyone.
    Forums are about community discussion. What makes them great is vendors and enthusiasts alike can come together in a common forum to share their thoughts. If for example I jumped in to this thread and posted "Hey, buy RB turbos, because Vargas turbos suck", then I can at least see where you may be offended. But coming in to a thread and discussing various turbo results is exactly what these forums are intended for. In terms of your objectivity I've done business with both Rob & Tony. I've tuned maybe 50 RB cars and would happily tune 50 Tony cars given the opportunity.

    If you're looking for a place to write things where no one can respond or offer objective feedback I'd suggest e90post or print ads.
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  19. #44
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    If you're looking for a place to write things where no one can respond or offer objective feedback I'd suggest e90post or print ads.
    Seriously? Ok, game on LOL

    Very objective and constructive when you come into another vendors thread and post things such as:

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS
    We've had plenty of customers make 520rw+ over the years

    No one was talking about all out numbers here. In fact it was the most appropriate of tuning done as I'd do on any given customer car. RB mentioned the 550whp/630wtq dyno yet both of you mentioned it in a very different tone just a couple weeks ago. That particular dyno was done to push limits in every possible way, turbo and motor (bottom end, backpressure, heat) wise to satisfy my own curiosity on the motor and RB was aware prior to it that this is what we'd be doing which he was fine with. RBs unfortunately didn't last much after that dyno which was expected but to compare it to that dyno knowing boost was pushed for experimental reasons is certainly not objective.

    Do what you do well I guess. We'll try to do it a bit differently for a change.
    Last edited by dzenno@PTF; 08-16-2013 at 05:05 PM.
    Click here to enlarge

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    I'm not defending anyone, but his mention of 'its a different dyno' is probably a reference to the fact that dynos read differently and when it comes down to the horsepower there is going to be variance. I do find it a bit odd that any ASR parts are used, that is something that certainly could have educational value in terms of research and development but not really something that would get advertised in my personal opinion as this is just asking for confusion. I made my wife cum all over the walls, by the way bubba just left my house.

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    Click here to enlarge
    2009 335i coupe back to stock...for now

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    It's from a different dyno so not sure how relevant it is, but here is customer MT FBO RB turbo dyno from around 11/2012. Using meth. Did D post the dyno log chart so we can compare boost, timing, PWM, etc?
    You do realize that dyno you posted was done on a tune with 12-15deg of timing and no visibility into corrections from cylinders 2-6? The dyno I posted above targeted 10-11.5deg of timing flat across with actual timing as logged being at 11.28 Click here to enlarge Is that another objective post of yours?
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@PTF Click here to enlarge
    Seriously? Ok, game on LOL
    You had RB turbos on the car with the factory motor, right?

    If the intent here is to lead a discussion about your new turbos then why didn't you just post a comparison dyno & log from each set matching up as many variables as you can on your end. Like matching boost & advance curves in the logs then comparing the resulting dyno charts. Or comparing spool tests for each. Those would both be interesting angles of discussion that don't involve any other tuners or individuals for you or Tony to cry bias over.
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    2 out of 2 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    I like boobies.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@PTF Click here to enlarge
    You do realize that dyno you posted was done on a tune with 12-15deg of timing and no visibility into corrections from cylinders 2-6? The dyno I posted above targeted 10-11.5deg of timing flat across with actual timing as logged being at 11.28 Click here to enlarge Is that another objective post of yours?
    It's a dyno chart and a log. Nothing more. Nothing less. It shows boost, timing, AFR, and duty cycle, all which may be interesting things to discuss compared to other dynos. That is why I included it with the dyno. I do not have physic powers to predict how you've tuned your car or even that you've tuned it at all. If you now feel the tuning details are relevant then why have you not posted a log with the dyno yet?
    Burger Motorsports
    Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, N63s, S55s, and S63s!

    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

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