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  1. #1
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    Upgrade FMIC or Meth? Florida Heat

    A recent trip to the track has me thinking about reducing IAT's. Living in Florida, we are obviously dealing with brutal summers. Currently, I am running the 5" ETS FMIC and my latest log showed IAT's increasing from 117 to 148 by the end of the strip.

    I was speaking with another local forum member who is running meth and the 7" ETS FMIC. I saw a 20-120 mph log from him without meth on and his IAT's only climbed about 15 degrees.

    I have always been anti-meth but I am starting to lean toward getting a kit. Would I be better off keeping my 5" ETS and adding meth or upgrading to the 7" ETS. Of course both would be better.

    Also, I am running a PTF E45 map so keep this in mind.
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    My understanding is that meth will do more to lower the charge air temps than an FMIC alone, so long as it is flowing. If you're leaning toward running meth for that purpose, I would keep the 5" FMIC you currently have as it will likely have a lower pressure drop than the larger 7" core.

    I'm in the same boat as you but I have a stock IC and was seeing north of 170* F on the top end of the track the last time I was there. I'm going to get a 7" FMIC and see what that does for me before I go down the meth injection route.
    335i Coupe, JB4 (G4, map 5) DCI and 40% E85 blend: 2009 BMW 335i Coupe: 12.173 @ 109.490 MPH

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    Meth all the way man.
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    If you had to pick one, id say meth. Optimally both.
    11.76 @ 124 (123.9) full weight e92 335i, street tires, no meth.

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    Really depends on your end goal... Do you want to squeeze out every last whp? Budget? Install cost, etc. A better fmic should do the trick and would be cheaper but depends what you want out of the car.
    [02/07 E92 335i 6MT] - Under Construction

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    You already have an upgraded FMIC. I'm not familiar with the ETS intercooler performance, but regardless, between going from 5" to 7" FMIC of the same brand or adding meth, as to which will lower air intake temps, it's no question that meth injection will be more effective. The meth will also have some fueling benefits, and some risk/hassle of course.

    I'm in AZ and have been exploring alternatives to meth and while I think some things can be done to mitigate the very high temps, nothing is going to help like spraying meth. FWIW upgrading the FMIC, heat tape wrapping cold side FMIC piping including charge pipe, and switching to a Mr.5 style intake over a DCI helped significantly, but if it's 115*+ out it's a losing battle. On one hot day idling for a few mins I saw my charge temps hit 184*, lol. They didn't dip below 145* for a looooong time highway driving after that.

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    What's up man? Something to keep in mind here. Meth is not going to be flowing all the time while driving around. If you're doing this for the track then just do meth, don't waste money upgrading the FMIC as you probably won't notice a difference at all on the track. upgrading FMIC will obviously help 100% of the time the car is running, so it's really up to you.
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    It's all physics, forget the love of FMIC or hate of water/methanol

    as a power man, do what gives you the most efficient solution for your $ and wants........ adding meth injection to your current set up is = win win
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JStang Click here to enlarge

    I was speaking with another local forum member who is running meth and the 7" ETS FMIC. I saw a 20-120 mph log from him without meth on and his IAT's only climbed about 15 degrees.

    I have always been anti-meth but I am starting to lean toward getting a kit. Would I be better off keeping my 5" ETS and adding meth or upgrading to the 7" ETS. Of course both would be better.
    You already know what I am going to say, upgrade to the 7", sell the 5", request PTF to lower your IAT compensation table, wait till winter, and kick azz.

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    Meth.

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    There are benefits to meth including fueling, octane, combustion energy and cooler charge air. BUT cooling is actually minor when compared to using DI ethanol... of course this depends on the E% you can use considering fuel capacity. IATs don't mean much... it's the cyl temp which is lower injected directly rather than upstream where the air can heat back up. If you were supplementing meth for DI E85 it would be a tough choice... but supplementing gasoline, definitely meth.

    A better IC helps with or without meth... you just can't see in IATs on meth, since its a false reading. I'd go with best flowing IC rather than most efficient, although its just a guess which one this is cause lack of data.

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    I used ATR today to reduce the Ait compensation on my setup and it was quite effective. I looked up my track logs and I had a 20 deg spread from start to end of a run. I reduced Ait comp in that area and it showed up in the logs on the street for sure. Earlier i was pulling close to 3 deg at the top of 4 th now barely a degree if that. I think e30 ots map is to conservative in this regard.

    That being said I am planning on getting the aquamist meth kit and running it as a stand alone. Will not rely on it for octane but as a heat quencher. I have a secret sauce mix that I want to use. If interested let me know.


    harry

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JoshBoody Click here to enlarge
    There are benefits to meth including fueling, octane, combustion energy and cooler charge air. BUT cooling is actually minor when compared to using DI ethanol... of course this depends on the E% you can use considering fuel capacity. IATs don't mean much... it's the cyl temp which is lower injected directly rather than upstream where the air can heat back up. If you were supplementing meth for DI E85 it would be a tough choice... but supplementing gasoline, definitely meth.

    A better IC helps with or without meth... you just can't see in IATs on meth, since its a false reading. I'd go with best flowing IC rather than most efficient, although its just a guess which one this is cause lack of data.
    I think it's hard to run e85 due to availability and having meth is an excellent way to keep AIT down. I am not a fan of tuning with meth as a secondary fueling source because in my experience bi fuel setups are finicky .

    Harry

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    Both. Running the stock FMIC is just going to make it harder for the meth to do it's job.
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    Meth; it will help when boosting, and when you aren't boosting and just driving around normally, the ets 5 inch fmic should be fine. Invest the rest of the money you would have used on a bigger fmic on an oil cooler.
    2008 e92 335i: JB4 G5 ISO/BMS back end flash, fbo, e85, inlets, Rb turbos, level 10 valve body + converter, water/methanol.....and a lot more....

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JoshBoody Click here to enlarge
    There are benefits to meth including fueling, octane, combustion energy and cooler charge air. BUT cooling is actually minor when compared to using DI ethanol... of course this depends on the E% you can use considering fuel capacity. IATs don't mean much... it's the cyl temp which is lower injected directly rather than upstream where the air can heat back up. If you were supplementing meth for DI E85 it would be a tough choice... but supplementing gasoline, definitely meth.

    A better IC helps with or without meth... you just can't see in IATs on meth, since its a false reading. I'd go with best flowing IC rather than most efficient, although its just a guess which one this is cause lack of data.
    This helps a lot. I know E85's cooling benefits aren't shown in IAT's so maybe I am going wrong by putting so much focus on them. I am currently running E45 but will likely up the E% once I get an upgraded LPFP.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Ztuner Click here to enlarge
    I think it's hard to run e85 due to availability and having meth is an excellent way to keep AIT down. I am not a fan of tuning with meth as a secondary fueling source because in my experience bi fuel setups are finicky .

    Harry
    Meth on the N54 is a whole different ballgame, fairly painless. The only "real" issue would be too aggressive timing targets if meth stopped flowing. Just use a system with a failsafe that is capable of dumping boost and you are good. The closed loop fueling really takes all of the work out of tuning Meth. Cobb's 3D fuel scalar tables also makes it beautifully integrated, because you can tune the scalar based on meth flow to keep trims in check. This is one of many advantages that Cobb still has over OpenFlash tablet and the Open Source tune.
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    While you do have the smaller 5" core, you do have an upgraded fmic over stock. With that being said, without a doubt you'd see a much greater decrease in IAT's going to meth over a 7" core when you already have the 5". If you were coming from a stock fmic, I'd still say the same.

  20. #20
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    one question sorry if its stupid/silly. but would it be beneficial to add ice to a water/meth mix? or somehow refrigerate the meth tank and make it very cold before being sprayed
    2008 E92 335i- HP: 423 TRQ: 453 - Sold
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  21. #21
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by crazylegs Click here to enlarge
    one question sorry if its stupid/silly. but would it be beneficial to add ice to a water/meth mix? or somehow refrigerate the meth tank and make it very cold before being sprayed
    Would be hard to do, the electricity pulled and used to place it in a "fridge" wouldn't be worth it. It's not uncommon to see a dragster put some dry ice on an intake manifold though to cool it down a bit between runs. Need to be careful though on our cars as they're not built to withstand such extreme temperature differences and doing something like this could cause manifold failure.

    Methanol doesn't really heat up BTW no matter what temp is in the trunk. It is not a conductor, go ahead and dip your finger in the tank, it will feel cool even in a hot trunk.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mjmarovi Click here to enlarge
    Would be hard to do, the electricity pulled and used to place it in a "fridge" wouldn't be worth it. It's not uncommon to see a dragster put some dry ice on an intake manifold though to cool it down a bit between runs. Need to be careful though on our cars as they're not built to withstand such extreme temperature differences and doing something like this could cause manifold failure.

    Methanol doesn't really heat up BTW no matter what temp is in the trunk. It is not a conductor, go ahead and dip your finger in the tank, it will feel cool even in a hot trunk.
    +1. The dry ice on our manifold would probably be cold enough to thermally shock it. I wouldn't try this.

  23. #23
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mjmarovi Click here to enlarge
    Methanol doesn't really heat up BTW no matter what temp is in the trunk. It is not a conductor, go ahead and dip your finger in the tank, it will feel cool even in a hot trunk.
    wat

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ksalih Click here to enlarge
    +1. The dry ice on our manifold would probably be cold enough to thermally shock it. I wouldn't try this.
    I would attempt this on ksalih's intake manifold.

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    I have been tempted by this for a very very long time now http://www.chargecooler.co.uk/index....n_page=privacy

    I would go this direct first before even considering meth OR I could just drop dry ice in my FMIC shroud lip Click here to enlarge for sh!ts and giggles

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BuraQ Click here to enlarge
    I have been tempted by this for a very very long time now http://www.chargecooler.co.uk/index....n_page=privacy

    I would go this direct first before even considering meth OR I could just drop dry ice in my FMIC shroud lip Click here to enlarge for sh!ts and giggles
    interesting thought. There is space on the ds vent to install a air to water radiator like the oil cooler on the ps side. The ic can sit in the stock fmic location. Question is where will the water reservoir go ?

    harry

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