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    Street tune or dyno tune?

    I'm anxiously waiting for my VTT batch two stg 2 turbos and I'm trying to plan my choice in Protune. I recently heard a street tune is actually better than a dyno tune. Is this true? If so....why? I obviously want the best Protune I can get for my VTT stg 2 turbos. I will be using a Cobb Protune only with 93 + meth.
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    Interesting topic. Street tune would be more real world, at least I think so. Regardless of what you make power wise, to me it's better because you have realistic amounts of air hitting the car (not saying some shops do not have massive fans that can do more) and to me you would make more adaptations to the tune to compensate for more real world conditions than you would at a stationary dyno shop.
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    Street tune, because that's what you're tuning it for, to drive, not to spin a dyno. Dynojet's are fine for testing and getting numbers for comparison, but not tuning as they present no actual load to the car. Mustang dyno's are better, but load is easily adjusted, wouldn't recommend even putting your car on a mustang dyno unless you are 100% confident in the person running it.

    Luckily our cars have plenty of failsafes and an adaptive DME, if not for that, tuning on a dyno, primarily dynojet could be dangerous for the car when you go to drive it on the street as load/resistance to the wheels changes the game.
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    Not even an issue...street tune. Unless the only thing you are going to do is go from say 3,000 rpm to redline and not shift gears why would you even think otherwise.

    As an FYI, we can dyno the car at 1,000 rwhp but driving on the street we are somewhere around 800. On the street the engine heats up, you are generally going from partial throttle, etc.
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    Dyno tune for consistency then street tune after for tweaking it. Should both be done as part of the package, ideally anyway.

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    The best tune is one that is always monitoring boost, fuel trims, timing advance, knock, fuel pressure, etc, and adjusting itself on the fly if senses something it doesn't like. Click here to enlarge

    But if you are talking about a flash only environment you normally road tune to get it close and then fine tune on the dyno.
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    I'm talking about a flash tune. I'm glad I posted this, I never really thought street tuning was the way to go but so far it sounds like it is....
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    Street any day. Then take it on the dyno to grab a chart and maybe last few tweaks.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SCGT Click here to enlarge
    Dyno tune for consistency then street tune after for tweaking it. Should both be done as part of the package, ideally anyway.
    Just curious, how do you expect to tune on a dyno and get consistency on the street? Click here to enlarge
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mjmarovi Click here to enlarge
    Just curious, how do you expect to tune on a dyno and get consistency on the street? Click here to enlarge
    I didn't write it clearly. On the dyno you can easily control a lot of variables, not worry about breaking laws, traffic, changing road conditions, weather, etc. That's what I meant by consistency. Get things where you want, then make any final real-world tweaks necessary on the street.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SCGT Click here to enlarge
    I didn't write it clearly. On the dyno you can easily control a lot of variables, not worry about breaking laws, traffic, changing road conditions, weather, etc. That's what I meant by consistency. Get things where you want, then make any final real-world tweaks necessary on the street.
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    Dyno tune all the way.
    over and over 4th gear pulls would get tricky, and may get expensive (tickets)
    if something breaks you aren't driving it fast.
    i like the fact that if you don't like something, you can pull out ASAP.
    i love the fact you can partial throttle tune and also economize for specific speeds.

    consistancy, controllable variables and safety are all my hot points.

    dyno- get the tune down pat. then street drive for drivability issues and verify the tune on some pulls.

    dont forget about cold engine starts! E85 can be fun to start on low compression engines and fire hoses for injectors Click here to enlarge
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by alex@ABRhouston Click here to enlarge
    Dyno tune all the way.
    over and over 4th gear pulls would get tricky, and may get expensive (tickets)
    if something breaks you aren't driving it fast.
    i like the fact that if you don't like something, you can pull out ASAP.
    i love the fact you can partial throttle tune and also economize for specific speeds.

    consistancy, controllable variables and safety are all my hot points.

    dyno- get the tune down pat. then street drive for drivability issues and verify the tune on some pulls.

    dont forget about cold engine starts! E85 can be fun to start on low compression engines and fire hoses for injectors Click here to enlarge
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    Street then dyno to see what the numbers are. Big problem with dyno IMHO is heat soak. It might be hard to be consistent over multi runs inside a building with some big fans & the hood open.
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    I would rather see a tune being developed on a dyno, than the street. IMO, the reason being is you can do little bits at a time, and not chance hurting the engine.

    my personal car was entertaining to tune, due to the fact we could only do "so much" before a variable ran out.
    injectors.
    octane.
    headgasket.
    Intercooler.
    injectors (again smh)


    The only bad thing I can think of that they dyno would not have any control over, was fuel slosh in the tank, and the pumps not being able to keep submerged. That got taken care of with a fuel safe surge tank put into the factory tank..... No more issues Click here to enlarge

    but that is an extreme case where g forces cannot be taken into account on a dyno. Only real world tuning will show that ugly head.

    could you imaging trying to build a tune with that going on in the background? That would suck!

    another example is the engine I built for my mud truck. We dynoed it and were down on power for some reason. My carburator guy came by and said it was the carb setup. He rebuilt it that night with some mods and it picked up 60 hp just from the carb change!

    after it was done being tuned (which is nice to look for oil leaks or other problems and be able to fix that while its out of the vehicle on the dyno stand) all I had to do was drop it in and I KNEW it was going to run perfect. Tuning a carbureted engine is way more efficient on the dyno vs on the street.....but I could see the fuel slosh in the bowls causing the same problem I had in the tank....

    but then again it comes back to dyno, street drive for verification and drivability tweaks Click here to enlarge
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    Tuning on a Dynojet though allows you to make a tune that can be too aggressive on the street. Often times, you'll have to dial things down afterwards. Dynojet's are great for marketing, part of the reason Vishnu/FFTEC rarely post numbers off their in-house Mustang dyno, which is what they use for tuning.
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    Both,first dyno tuning then fine tuning on the street.

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    The true answer to your question is BOTH. Also there is a huge fallacy about dyno jets not being useful to tune. Keep in mind all dynos are simply tools. Everything depends on how they are calibrated. I often joke with my customers when they ask me how much power do I expect. My answer is "how much do you want ?" Anything can be manipulated.

    Usually for OEM Ecu cars with minor mods ( yes even Vargas stage III ) cars you do not absolutely NEED a load bearing dyno. You can get things sorted out between street tuning and dyno runs. Load dynoes are nice where you are starting a tune from scratch with a standalone Ecu on a engine with a completely unknown ve etc. in other words full race cars.

    Most load dyno operators never use the full capabilities to tune cars simply because its too time consuming and customers don't want to pay them for their time.

    Harry

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    Totally. I spent over a week on the dyno with my car. My tuner (who is very good) was explaining it to me like this:

    OEMs have a group of tuners and engineers that spend months building these maps and tunes for OEM engines.

    people expect 1 guy to knock out the same amount of work in 2-6 hours.
    At best, you will get 80-90% of the tune down acceptable.
    its that other 10-20% that will take hours upon hours of pulls and manipulating to get perfect.
    My car has a GREAT tune and drivability is amazing for what it is.... I couldn't expect that out of a 2-6 hour tune session ever.


    another example:
    my machinist has a 4 cylinder naturally asperated race engine that he has run for a while in pro mod.
    every year he has to find power in it to stay competitive.
    each year it gets put on the dyno during off season and gets pull after pull after pull looking for tweaks.
    each year he finds power in the tune.
    its making over 650hp now Click here to enlarge which, IMO is pretty impressive out if a n/a 4cyl!
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    Great posts @Ztuner and @alex@ABRhouston ...... fortunately I have same software version as my tuner, i'm actually running his personal map on his daily driver 335 right now and its great. I hope he can tweak it when I get the meth / vtt stg2's to get the same driveability and more power. I wanted to understand the value in street tuning because i'll gladly pay for both if that will give me the best tune overall.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mjmarovi Click here to enlarge
    Street tune, because that's what you're tuning it for, to drive, not to spin a dyno. Dynojet's are fine for testing and getting numbers for comparison, but not tuning as they present no actual load to the car. Mustang dyno's are better, but load is easily adjusted, wouldn't recommend even putting your car on a mustang dyno unless you are 100% confident in the person running it.

    Luckily our cars have plenty of failsafes and an adaptive DME, if not for that, tuning on a dyno, primarily dynojet could be dangerous for the car when you go to drive it on the street as load/resistance to the wheels changes the game.
    I agree with this.

    The dynojet's are the fun dyno for showing off a graph and peak numbers. And really the best for that IMO.

    But for tuning... load based. You don't need to street tune you need a tuner friendly dyno.

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    Dyno tune to get close, is cheap easy and safe- loaded dyno preferred, but any will do.
    road tune to get realistic and fine tune/get actual real-world feedback.

    but either is fine with these days, just depends on how much time your looking to spend

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