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  1. #76
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    lol.. hp and tq dont matter, its all about tq multiplication!
    @inlines54 your anology is very scientifc, but your not factoring time in gear, multiple shifts and acceleration over distance vs time

    there is a reason why peaky hp vs broad powerband is a close race Click here to enlarge

  2. #77
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@PTF Click here to enlarge
    We have stock turbo DCT cars running what you did years ago
    The heck are you comparing dct cars to a 6mt in a 1/4? I was at least trying to compare similar transmissions, relax
    Running what I did at 575 wheel years ago on my first try with an overheating trans years before any N54 got close? Cool, and you're running what again?

    Don't pick fights you can't win. If you want to run I have no problem with that but you're making a big mistake.

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
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  3. #78
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    lol.. hp and tq dont matter, its all about tq multiplication!
    You have to have torque and hp to multiply. Please don't talk about topics you don't understand.

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
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  4. #79
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    lol.. hp and tq dont matter, its all about tq multiplication!
    @inlines54 your anology is very scientifc, but your not factoring time in gear, multiple shifts and acceleration over distance vs time

    there is a reason why peaky hp vs broad powerband is a close race Click here to enlarge
    Yeah, I totally agree with you - as long as you can stay in the powerband (peaky) - you are golden. Just like an R6 (bike) - the gearing was short, but if you shifted at redline, you would be in the meat of the powerband at next shift.

    All I mean (re: tq multiplication) take two cars/engines with similar power-bands (in terms of area) - but one has a higher redline. The car with the higher redline can shorten gearing to apply more tq to the ground. The car will accelerate faster - it's just like saying a car in 1st gear accelerates faster than a car in 2nd - the horsepower and torque didn't change, but the acceleration does. In other words, having a higher redline is advantageous because it allows you to take advantage of mechanical advantage (torque/leverage). Yes, it's not going to change much at high speeds, when it's all about power - but from say 0-100, it's important. They could gear an F1 engine to "redline" at 8k in each gear instead of 16k, but it's torque would be halved to the ground - and the acceleration would be half of what it was. Again, power and torque at the crank didn't change.

    To your point, it definitely is NOT this simple, there is MUCH more at play in the real world. I just factor in what I can, and try to learn as I go. You are 100% right, without factoring in everything (time/distance) - both cars WILL reach the same distance over a long enough time. How quickly one chooses to get to 30/60/100/etc. in a given distance/time- can be helped by gearing is all I meant by the gearing stuff. It (gearing) doesn't turn a stock M3 into a supercharged M3 killer, that's for sure. Click here to enlarge

    Cheers.


    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@PTF Click here to enlarge
    Ok fair enough. How does the graph i posted stack up? I'll go through your calcs this time
    lol - just sent you my calculations... let me know if you agree.

  5. #80
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by inlineS54B32 Click here to enlarge
    The car with the higher redline can shorten gearing to apply more tq to the ground.
    Why this is beyond some people's comprehension I have no idea.

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Why this is beyond some people's comprehension I have no idea.
    In all seriousness, I blame the car magazines. They should write about this topic, it's one of the most important things/metrics when explaining something like a "torqueless" S2000.

    If you can't physically show someone by either driving them in a car - but must use words instead, why not use the most descriptive/accurate words there are? We all read a car magazine from time to time to compare what car is faster than another. After 40 years of magazines (or whatever), we still have nothing but peak numbers to go off of. Just now, 0-60 is becoming less important, and 1/4 and 0-100/0-160 is starting to trend.

    I honestly don't get it - if I owned a car magazine, I would at a minimum do area under the curve - it seems like one more mouse click once the data is obtained. I don't get it - and it drives me nuts. Click here to enlarge

    I would think the first magazine to actually treat their readers like they are capable of understanding something would win the popularity/accuracy contest - but for some reason, it doesn't happen. Argh. Click here to enlarge

  7. #82
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by inlineS54B32 Click here to enlarge
    Yeah, I totally agree with you - as long as you can stay in the powerband (peaky) - you are golden. Just like an R6 (bike) - the gearing was short, but if you shifted at redline, you would be in the meat of the powerband at next shift.

    All I mean (re: tq multiplication) take two cars/engines with similar power-bands (in terms of area) - but one has a higher redline. The car with the higher redline can shorten gearing to apply more tq to the ground. The car will accelerate faster - it's just like saying a car in 1st gear accelerates faster than a car in 2nd - the horsepower and torque didn't change, but the acceleration does. In other words, having a higher redline is advantageous because it allows you to take advantage of mechanical advantage (torque/leverage). Yes, it's not going to change much at high speeds, when it's all about power - but from say 0-100, it's important. They could gear an F1 engine to "redline" at 8k in each gear instead of 16k, but it's torque would be halved to the ground - and the acceleration would be half of what it was. Again, power and torque at the crank didn't change.

    To your point, it definitely is NOT this simple, there is MUCH more at play in the real world. I just factor in what I can, and try to learn as I go. You are 100% right, without factoring in everything (time/distance) - both cars WILL reach the same distance over a long enough time. How quickly one chooses to get to 30/60/100/etc. in a given distance/time- can be helped by gearing is all I meant by the gearing stuff. It (gearing) doesn't turn a stock M3 into a supercharged M3 killer, that's for sure. Click here to enlarge

    Cheers.




    lol - just sent you my calculations... let me know if you agree.
    i hear ya, just adding my 2 cents, even though i know nothing about it.. other than real world results and ownership Click here to enlarge

  8. #83
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    That definitely was not what I intended to say - not even one bit. I understand what you mean, and hear you - it's not the be-all end-all, especially without factoring in "reality", right? I didn't mean to imply otherwise.

  9. #84
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by inlineS54B32 Click here to enlarge
    In all seriousness, I blame the car magazines. They should write about this topic, it's one of the most important things/metrics when explaining something like a "torqueless" S2000.

    If you can't physically show someone by either driving them in a car - but must use words instead, why not use the most descriptive/accurate words there are? We all read a car magazine from time to time to compare what car is faster than another. After 40 years of magazines (or whatever), we still have nothing but peak numbers to go off of. Just now, 0-60 is becoming less important, and 1/4 and 0-100/0-160 is starting to trend.

    I honestly don't get it - if I owned a car magazine, I would at a minimum do area under the curve - it seems like one more mouse click once the data is obtained. I don't get it - and it drives me nuts. Click here to enlarge

    I would think the first magazine to actually treat their readers like they are capable of understanding something would win the popularity/accuracy contest - but for some reason, it doesn't happen. Argh. Click here to enlarge
    The S2000 is honestly a perfect example.

    RPM is vital it's like nobody cares.

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
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  10. #85
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by inlineS54B32 Click here to enlarge
    That definitely was not what I intended to say - not even one bit. I understand what you mean, and hear you - it's not the be-all end-all, especially without factoring in "reality", right? I didn't mean to imply otherwise.
    lol, my bad, that wasnt directed to you, i was being facetious

  11. #86
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by inlineS54B32 Click here to enlarge
    In all seriousness, I blame the car magazines. They should write about this topic, it's one of the most important things/metrics when explaining something like a "torqueless" S2000.

    If you can't physically show someone by either driving them in a car - but must use words instead, why not use the most descriptive/accurate words there are? We all read a car magazine from time to time to compare what car is faster than another. After 40 years of magazines (or whatever), we still have nothing but peak numbers to go off of. Just now, 0-60 is becoming less important, and 1/4 and 0-100/0-160 is starting to trend.

    I honestly don't get it - if I owned a car magazine, I would at a minimum do area under the curve - it seems like one more mouse click once the data is obtained. I don't get it - and it drives me nuts. Click here to enlarge

    I would think the first magazine to actually treat their readers like they are capable of understanding something would win the popularity/accuracy contest - but for some reason, it doesn't happen. Argh. Click here to enlarge
    Let's be honest how many magazine reveiws, TV reviews, or tests have you seen by people who seem to have just been given a crash course on peformance 5 minutes before writing article or recording a show? It's sad really....I've even seen reveiws where the guy said, "Haven't driven a manual in awhile, sorry for missing that gear" really? And you're telling me about how this car shifts and drive?
    @Sticky Yeah man, not trying to attach anyone, and like I said, I'll admit, the more I read the more it seems Gintani is a pretty standup company, but I was not referencing your vehicle, and just because you have personal experience with Gintani doesn't mean that your single video was the video I was referencing...that's just a ridiculous thought.

    Would love to see a Stage 2 Turbo car race these SC M3's 6MT. would be very interesting.
    2009 335i coupe back to stock...for now

    Click here to enlarge

  12. #87
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TZ04XJR Click here to enlarge
    Lmao... I just love excuses.
    That would be a contributing factor... Think about it, what are the only 4 parts of the car that actually makes contact with the road? Still a fast car nonetheless I'm not trying to take anything away from the video.

  13. #88
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    ran the gintani stage 2 car few nights ago mods are in the video
    this is the same 335i that ran the ess 650 car and stayed a nose ahead till i hit the speedo limit all 4 hwy runs
    difference in mods : when i raced the ess car i was running 100% race gas 110oct 70 additive
    gintani car i was running 80/20 94/110 65additive and also bb jb4 backend race flash



    Also ran a dct m3 w/tune same night


  14. #89
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    pure edition?
    m3

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  16. #91
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    Yeah .. pure edition is nothing crazy just a bunch of fancy trims.. All these edition M's are just money makers nothing really is different - example: lime rock edition..

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