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  1. #26
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@PTF Click here to enlarge
    You're not sure eh? I do still have the emails where I told you about it you know. I worked with n2mb performance guys (John) to get it done and working for the N54 as it only worked on mazdaspeeds and others at the time properly. I actually told Shiv about it first, he added it into the procede then you added it into the JB which made me a bit sad about the n2mb guys but I guess such is life in this business. n2mb gets credit, not Shiv. I do remember both Shiv and yourself not supporting the idea of "stacking tunes" when I was running with it and showing how we could get more fuel from the car and how initial fuel limitations really weren't hardware related but tuning related and that flash tuning simply had a higher fuel ceiling opening up doors to proper alternative fuels through fuel scalars through the work done by Cobb allowing us to tune the car with E85 more appropriately.
    On the 2STEP I really don't remember except that I know Shiv had it first w/o a wotbox. I know you had a wotbox and I think some other customer had one as well around the same time.

    On the tuning I've never understood the phrase "tune stack". You're not running two independent tunes you are using one method for some things and another method for other things. It's only one tune. Like you said you take the best of everything and then use those tools to achieve a single great tune. I'm just suggesting you're skipping over the best way to do a lot of things here because you have a dislike of piggybacks. Yet your 2STEP, meth control, etc, is all piggybacked anyway.
    Last edited by Terry@BMS; 08-11-2013 at 07:29 PM.
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  2. #27
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Leaving a Cobb connected full time will drain the battery and who is going to set up the gauge mode each time they drive the car? Vs. having full time passive gauges always ready to go in dash? There is no comparison. Not to mention being able to instantly view logs. Sure your solution works but its worse.

    On meth for larger turbos we suggest a turbine sensor which the JB4 reads to run the progressive control and failsafe. The alternative is mounting that stupid looking Aquamist gauge somewhere to monitor/adjust meth flow and using their inferior solenoid only predefined flow range safety. Again your solution works but its worse.

    On the 3.5bar map sensor by throwing off the sensor voltages you're doing the same thing a piggyback does only in an inconsistent way. You need a properly calibrated boost sensor on the car so at least some system is aware of the actual boost levels. Be it the DME or an external system like the JB4. Against your solution works but it worse.

    On the NLS/2STEP the WOT box costs almost as much as a JB4 anyway. Your solution works but costs more.

    On the 1st gear boost limiting, partial throttle control, etc, you don't have a solution yet.

    It's going to look like a bomb went off in the DME area anyway with all the add ons. You might as well have a fully integrated and functional system with the features that go with it IMHO.
    But.. the cobb turns off when the car turns off, and obviously has memory settings for what gauges it displays, so there's no battery drain or major setup?

    you're not coming off very good looking with your posts in this thread terry.

    yeah, you have a good product.. but stop trying to $#@! on the flash-only options with your flash vs piggy debate. it's not good.

    i know what you're trying to say.. but what it LOOKS like, is you're bashing them trying to get it all done WITHOUT a piggy.. regardless of whether you can do it easier with a JB4, that's completely besides the point, this is trying things no one else has yet -_-
    boop

  3. #28
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    I do wish there was a bit more focus on flash only external wastegate boost control and not so much on the piggy vs. flash debate and things that are more secondary. This is a major milestone for the N54 and many people won't even need a piggy to do that. Those that don't see value in all the crazy cool features of an AccessPort V3 can do this with a free open source flash one day and a cable.
    Click here to enlarge

  4. #29
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    But.. the cobb turns off when the car turns off, and obviously has memory settings for what gauges it displays, so there's no battery drain or major setup?
    I don't participate in threads to "look good" or "look bad". I'm simply offering my point of view. On the Cobb handheld as a gauge solution, have you tried it? I've tried it with V2 and it's not workable. Did you know we offer a product designed for flash tunes that offers in dash gauges without the need for a piggyback? We have for years and it recently underwent a software redesign to make it even easier. So I'm not a piggyback nazi here. I always suggest going with what works best which is often a layer of products depending on the specific needs.
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  5. #30
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    I don't participate in threads to "look good" or "look bad". I'm simply offering my point of view. On the Cobb handheld as a gauge solution, have you tried it? I've tried it with V2 and it's not workable. Did you know we offer a product designed for flash tunes that offers in dash gauges without the need for a piggyback? We have for years and it recently underwent a software redesign to make it even easier. So I'm not a piggyback nazi here. I always suggest going with what works best which is often a layer of products depending on the specific needs.
    sorry i know that's not what you're TRYING to do, but that's how it's coming off.

    some people will prefer a dedicated gauge to a hijacked gauge.. or simply alternative options.

    yes, your package offers an awesome level of features all bundled up, but just because yours is one good option, doesn't mean other options should be explored, which is simply what's happening

    choice is good for the community, as much as it's not as perfect for your business Click here to enlarge
    boop

  6. #31
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    sorry i know that's not what you're TRYING to do, but that's how it's coming off.

    some people will prefer a dedicated gauge to a hijacked gauge.. or simply alternative options.

    yes, your package offers an awesome level of features all bundled up, but just because yours is one good option, doesn't mean other options should be explored, which is simply what's happening

    choice is good for the community, as much as it's not as perfect for your business Click here to enlarge
    I'm really not even saying he should use a JB4. He can use a procede. Or some other external system. Maybe he should design his own. But there are certain specific details that should be addressed. Anyway, at the very least he should consider the information I'm passing along on how he can improve the setup further. Click here to enlarge
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  7. #32
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 135Hoser Click here to enlarge
    @dzenno@PTF You guys gonna put in an inline LPFP ? Or use the Vargas HPFP? Also has this car had any head work, or is any planned?
    This car has a bone stock motor. Had RBs previously that were taken off and had this setup installed. There's a bunch of options to try on the low pressure side first that have been tried by some before (e.g. parallel in-tank, inline, playing with the regulator, etc.) and go from there
    Click here to enlarge

  8. #33
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    The 3rd post down was me saying "looks promising" and pointing out I was the one that told him how to do this with the factory solenoids. Click here to enlarge
    Sigh, fine. Signing out. I for one am excited about flash only singles, and boost actuated DME control. Both you guys are doing great things and we all appreciate it.

  9. #34
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    On the 2STEP I really don't remember except that I know Shiv had it first w/o a wotbox. I know you had a wotbox and I think some other customer had one as well around the same time.

    On the tuning I've never understood the phrase "tune stack". You're not running two independent tunes you are using one method for some things and another method for other things. It's only one tune. Like you said you take the best of everything and then use those tools to achieve a single great tune. I'm just suggesting you're skipping over the best way to do a lot of things here because you have a dislike of piggybacks. Yet your 2STEP, meth control, etc, is all piggybacked anyway.
    There's no "dislike" of piggybacks, that's a bit foolish to say given everything else I've mentioned before. There is simply pros and cons to both approaches and we choose to do it the way that allows us the most information about the motor we're working with. That is as simple as I can put it.
    Click here to enlarge

  10. #35
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    Great job Dzenno. Progress is progress, and that's a pretty big milestone. Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@PTF Click here to enlarge
    I do wish there was a bit more focus on flash only external wastegate boost control and not so much on the piggy vs. flash debate and things that are more secondary. This is a major milestone for the N54 and many people won't even need a piggy to do that. Those that don't see value in all the crazy cool features of an AccessPort V3 can do this with a free open source flash one day and a cable.
    I understand if you don't want to.. but can you share anything on how you managed to get not only the wastegate control to work with a (presumably?) boost actuated setup... but also keep the DME happy at the same time?.. i thought the DME chucked a tantrum much more easily than this!

    I'm not 100% up to date on single stuff for the N54, it's advancing too fast! haha

    gives me some hope for one of my own, MUCH more easily than i would have thought, in the future Click here to enlarge


    i think the last line is a big point to mention... this may be able to all be done VERY cheaply in comparison to the past, very soon.
    boop

  12. #37
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    Sigh, fine. Signing out. I for one am excited about flash only singles, and boost actuated DME control. Both you guys are doing great things and we all appreciate it.
    i'm excited for either or

    who cares, as long as we can start seeing a bunch of big single monsters sooner rather than later!!

    more options is is better than less options?
    boop

  13. #38
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@PTF Click here to enlarge
    I do wish there was a bit more focus on flash only external wastegate boost control and not so much on the piggy vs. flash debate and things that are more secondary. This is a major milestone for the N54 and many people won't even need a piggy to do that. Those that don't see value in all the crazy cool features of an AccessPort V3 can do this with a free open source flash one day and a cable.
    The nice thing about inverting the solenoid is the DME logic basically works as is. A lot better than I expected actually. What I'm not sure about though is how partial throttle will work. The system can't control any less than 10psi due to the wastegate spring. So if the load target is less than 10psi you'll over boost/throttle close, maybe 30FE code. Then in other situations 30FF code. One option would be to disable both codes. Anyway that partial throttle area and shifting spikes are two of the potential areas I see needing more thought on this.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    Roy, this might be a bad comparison. He is on a 1.06 A/R housing, WAY WAY too big for this application. I just posted a GTX VX GT comparo and they discuss the A/R's a lot. If he went to an .82 he would prob pick up 300-400 RPM spool, if he dropped to a .63 the car would be night and day. He could realistically pick up 750-900 RPM spool. What A/R do you have on your S300? Here is the GTX comparison again, very good reading.

    http://blog.perrinperformance.com/ga...turbo-comparo/
    http://blog.perrinperformance.com/ga...omparo-part-2/
    yeah, i'm assuming the owner of this car is wanting to go for big boost big power when it all gets sorted.. a GTX35 1.06 for 525-550whp is a little bit overkill? hahaha
    boop

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    I like boobies.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    I understand if you don't want to.. but can you share anything on how you managed to get not only the wastegate control to work with a (presumably?) boost actuated setup... but also keep the DME happy at the same time?.. i thought the DME chucked a tantrum much more easily than this!

    I'm not 100% up to date on single stuff for the N54, it's advancing too fast! haha

    gives me some hope for one of my own, MUCH more easily than i would have thought, in the future Click here to enlarge


    i think the last line is a big point to mention... this may be able to all be done VERY cheaply in comparison to the past, very soon.
    The work and headaches we've gone through on the Vargas Stage 3 setup really helped us get into the nitty gritty with where the DME gets mad with our tinkering. That was a huge help and gave us a considerable advantage in time when starting out with this one. I wouldn't be surprised to see the Stage 3 vargas kit come out with boost actuated gates at this point either Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    yeah, i'm assuming the owner of this car is wanting to go for big boost big power when it all gets sorted.. a GTX35 1.06 for 525-550whp is a little bit overkill? hahaha
    Kit was built by a shop with their idea on what they want to see from this car, for the joy of seeing it really. John (owner) really just wants 550whp and no more smoke/oil smell but after seeing yesterday's dyno and driving the car its like all the rest of us here, let's push on Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge

  18. #43
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    Nice work bro and congrats again John, wish I could have made it over yesterday to check out the session. Some more incredible ground breaking stuff.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@PTF Click here to enlarge
    The work and headaches we've gone through on the Vargas Stage 3 setup really helped us get into the nitty gritty with where the DME gets mad with our tinkering. That was a huge help and gave us a considerable advantage in time when starting out with this one. I wouldn't be surprised to see the Stage 3 vargas kit come out with boost actuated gates at this point either Click here to enlarge
    fair enough

    it's just good to know that it CAN control boost actuated wastegates though, something i didn't expect it would at all.. this thread was a HUGE surprise to wake up to haha
    boop

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@PTF Click here to enlarge
    Kit was built by a shop with their idea on what they want to see from this car, for the joy of seeing it really. John (owner) really just wants 550whp and no more smoke/oil smell but after seeing yesterday's dyno and driving the car its like all the rest of us here, let's push on Click here to enlarge
    wow, there's a LOT of optimising then if all he wants is 550,

    but if he's willing to go for more now he's seen 550 came easily, yesplease! Click here to enlarge
    boop

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by klipseracer Click here to enlarge
    I like boobies.
    Me too!
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    Very cool. Keep up the good work on flash-only single turbos!

    Any clue on how the secondary o2 sensors are handled? With them both in one downpipe, won't the trims be thrown off?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DallasBoosted Click here to enlarge
    Very cool. Keep up the good work on flash-only single turbos!

    Any clue on how the secondary o2 sensors are handled? With them both in one downpipe, won't the trims be thrown off?
    There's some more investigation there to be had. When we unplugged the rears from their harness we lost AFR readings on the ATP live dash for some reason which was odd and might be a bug of some sort. @Roy Cormier has apparently been running without them plugged in and verified with INPA that the rears are showing as unplugged while the fronts are still showing live readings. How it all ties into self-calibration of the fronts using the rears is a grey area to me right now. What are the vishnu singles doing with the rear O2s? Plugged in still? Maybe he's using the procede to make them happy, no idea
    Click here to enlarge

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    Good job. If you're running the front O2s pre-turbine, I recall Shiv claiming that he needed to compensate for the higher temps pre-turbine to get accurate wide band readings, have you fooled around in that area yet?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Carl Morris Click here to enlarge
    Good job. If you're running the front O2s pre-turbine, I recall Shiv claiming that he needed to compensate for the higher temps pre-turbine to get accurate wide band readings, have you fooled around in that area yet?
    They seemed fine to me. I think with the O2 sensor heat spacers/mounts/bungs they might not need any of that.
    Click here to enlarge

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