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  1. #26
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    I have xdrive with IJE0S, as well as a BT cable. As soon as the software is released, I'll be more than happy to send in a copy of my bin.

  2. #27
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by boom Click here to enlarge
    @Terry@BMS, Is there anywhere you can host the bins for download? I'd like to copy the VANOS tables from the 1M.
    When they add a place to upload them here I can throw them there.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge

    I don't have a BT cable Click here to enlarge otherwise I would do it in a heartbeat!
    For Sale:

    - NX Express complete wet kit with Plug & Play fuel adapter for BMW 335i

    - FBO parts here LINK


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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    I've got a growing BIN collection including 1M, 335is, and PPK files. So I'm sure I'll get to the bottom of it sooner or later. Up next I need an IJE0S X drive BIN. If anyone has one shoot it over. Click here to enlarge
    First post here but... if you still need this and the one I stored via a Cobb will work for you, I can send you mine. It's from a 535i xdrive.

  5. #30
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    It would need to be read out via OS. But, thanks for the offer.
    Burger Motorsports
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    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

  6. #31
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by boom Click here to enlarge
    @Terry@BMS, Is there anywhere you can host the bins for download? I'd like to copy the VANOS tables from the 1M.
    You'll be able to exchange upload download bins here.

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    So digging in... I did a comparison of my stock I8A0S bin vs Shiv's Stg1 OTS I8A0S map. Below are the differences in the tune and a cursory inspection of the tables, values, axes, etc. There are toggles as well but they're self explanatory. I'm hoping to get insight from others on these and I'll keep the list updated. If you know what something is or have an idea, post it.

    Torque Limit Offset A - small table, x=RPM, 500, 600, 1200, 1500, y=torque, 50, 100, 300, 400, Shiv has 135 in most cells, stock is 50-60. What is this?

    Load Target 1 - cells=load, x=% air (requested load??), y= rpm Why do we have two Load Target Tables?


    Load Target 2
    - cells=load, x=% air (requested load??), y= rpm Why do we have two Load Target Tables?


    Load Limit Factor - No idea. Shiv runs 0.130 across, Stock is ~0.087


    Boost Limit Multiplier - No idea. Shiv runs 3.0 across, stock is 2.3 down to 1.7, columns are labeled:
    MAF Req WGDC KGH


    WGDC position back to WGDC - Columns are 0-100, cell values are 2-55% - Maybe a WGDC correlation for the tuning? Don't know where it's used.


    WGDC Dynamic - Columns are labeled RPM Dynamic, Cells are WGDC and range from 0-2.45, No idea


    WGDC D-Factor Multiplier - Presume multiplier to D portion of PID WGDC control. Shiv lowers significantly vs Stock.


    WGDC Adder (Airflow) - Columns labelled
    MAF Req (kgh) No idea, Shiv increases these


    WGDC Ceiling (Adder)
    - Columns labelled MAF WGDC (kgh) No idea, Shiv increases these


    WGDC (Pre-Control A) - RPM and WGDC. Shiv increases these significantly at low rpm. WG rattle elimination?


    WGDC Base - main WGDC table, columns labeled
    MAF Req (WGDC kgh) (120-1200), rows labeled factor (1.1-2.4) Shiv's values are lower than stock.


    WGDC D-Factor - D of PID loop? Rows labeled Boost Error (bar), columns labeled
    Boost Error D-Fact (bar)


    Fuel Bank 1 Shiv targets 11.2 at high rpm, load. Stock targets 10.8. WTF? I saw dynes of stock cars targeting 13 AFR. Why would my stock bin target 10.8?


    Fuel Bank 2 Shiv targets 11.2 at high rpm, load. Stock targets 10.8. WTF? I saw dynes of stock cars targeting 13 AFR. Why would my stock bin target 10.8?


    VANOS Intake (Moving) Warm, Degrees, x=rpm, y=load, Pretty complicated here. I'd like to copy the 1M


    VANOS Exhaust (Moving) Warm, Degrees, x=rpm, y=load, Pretty complicated here. I'd like to copy the 1M


    MAF (Nanny) Y=RPM, Shiv runs 2047.94 across, Stock goes from 2047.94 down to 966. Engine output limitation?


    Load to Torque Limit 1 Load - rows in the Load to Torque Limit 1 table. There is a Load to Torque Limit 1 RPM for the columns; Stock 90, 105, 120, 140, 160, 220/Shiv 90, 105, 133, 162, 191, 220, below 105 identical, Max: Stock=Shiv=220


    Load to Torque Limit 1 - Very minor differences. Almost mirror stock


    Load to Torque Limit 2 Load - rows in the Load to Torque Limit 2 table. There is a Load to Torque Limit 2 RPM for the columns; Stock 90, 105, 120, 140, 160, 220/Shiv 90, 105, 133, 162, 191, 220, below 105 identical, Max: Stock=Shiv=220


    Load to Torque Limit 2 - Very minor differences. Almost mirror stock




    Load to Torque Limit 3 Load - rows in the Load to Torque Limit 3 table. There is a Load to Torque Limit 3 RPM for the columns; Stock 90, 105, 120, 140, 160, 220/Shiv 90, 105, 133, 162, 191, 220, below 105 identical, Max: Stock=Shiv=220


    Load to Torque Limit 3 - Very minor differences. Almost mirror stock




    Torque Max (Index Array) Shiv runs 110 across the board, Stock is 87-->67, 1K-->7K rpm


    Throttle Angle Aggression in Overload x=rpm; y=Overboost Factor, Shiv's values are significantly higher than stock. Does this mean he's making the throttle close more aggressively on boost overshoot? Safety?


    Threshold (Major Throttle Closure) one value. Shiv = 0.960; Stock = 0.984


    Spool Mode Max (RPM) Stock =3000, Shiv = 2000; but he disables lean spool (?) in the tune...


    Ignition Timing (Main) x=rpm, y=load, maxes at 180, most changes at 155, 180 load, max 2.5 deg over stock


    Ignition Timing (Failsafe) x=rpm, y=load - What is this? Shivs is hotter than stock in some areas, colder in others. Only changes after 145 load, load maxes at 220


    Ignition Timing Corr. Factor (IAT) x=Deg C, y=Air Temp TB (C)



    Last edited by boom; 08-12-2013 at 09:52 PM. Reason: failed copy

  8. #33
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by boom Click here to enlarge
    Which one is which? Am I able to see what the actual stock numbers are if I use a Shiv XDF to view them? I don't have an xdf that doesn't have a tune in it - they all came from his OFT download site. Just trying to be clear.
    Thanks
    You are a bit mixed up. The XDF is just the definition file. It tells TunerPro what to look for, what memory address is for what, the scalings, etc. It has no tune in it whatsoever.

    The BIN is the tune, it's just a binary file. You need a XDF that corresponds to a BIN. For instance, I could load a XDF file for a third gen camaro and have about 500 tables, but if I use that XDF to try to make changes to a N54 BIN, well, it wouldn't work as intended. You need to match the XDF to the BIN you are trying to work on. Hope that helps.

  9. #34
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    I patched Shiv's stg1 xdf to my stock bin and made a file. I then compared that file to my stock bin.

  10. #35
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    Maybe I misunderstood you. Open the XDF for the ROM you have. Then load your patched BIN (or the stock, whatever). If you want to use the compare tool, go to the "Compare" menu at the top and click "load compare BIN's". You will select the stock BIN (Or the modified one, just the other one that you do not currently have open). Make sure there's a check mark in "enabled" and then compare it to the version you patched with the little icon.

    Unless the non-RT version is different (I remember it being the same) it should work.
    Click here to enlarge

  11. #36
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    You'll be able to exchange upload download bins here.
    Where would we find these uploads. Under download section of forum or under N54. I understand it's not there yet.. Just curious though Click here to enlarge

  12. #37
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    @V8Bait, yes, I know all of this. I used that function repeatedly reviewing all of the parameters I listed. You can also go into to Tools and use the Difference tool for a list of all of the parameters changed from one bin to the other. That's how I got the list. I then went through each and every parameter and looked at the xdf info to determine the cell contents, column, and row labels. Next I did the exact comparison steps you list to see the differences. I also used the graph function which works with the comparison tool to see a graphical representation of the differences - that helps in some cases, not so much in others.
    I really want insight on the parameters listed. I feel like shiv upped the target load which calls for more boost, reduced the WGDC main tables and adj the D factors to mitigate boost overshoot, added timing, and leaned the car down. Pretty straightforward but he makes changes in several parameter that I don't have a good feeling for and I want more understanding.

  13. #38
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by boom Click here to enlarge
    Pretty straightforward but he makes changes in several parameter that I don't have a good feeling for and I want more understanding.
    You have to understand that Shiv is using a lot of Cobb's settings on these tables to bypass torque limits and other nannies. You will likely not run across anything that can provide a strong understanding of how these tables work, its non intuitive unless you have the decoder ring. You will likely need to do some playing around on your own to understand it. You could try reading Cobbs ATR help me file if you have access to it, it gives some brief information on alot of these tables but basically just says change to xx to get this nanny out of the way etc.
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  14. #39
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    Is the BB OS flash released yet?
    Click here to enlarge
    997.1 tt
    Kline 200cell exhaust
    997.2/GT2RS IC's
    Cobb E85 custom stage3 tune by Mitch
    ID1000 injectors
    Sachs stage 2.5 clutch

  15. #40
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by V8Bait Click here to enlarge
    You are a bit mixed up. The XDF is just the definition file. It tells TunerPro what to look for, what memory address is for what, the scalings, etc. It has no tune in it whatsoever.

    The BIN is the tune, it's just a binary file. You need a XDF that corresponds to a BIN. For instance, I could load a XDF file for a third gen camaro and have about 500 tables, but if I use that XDF to try to make changes to a N54 BIN, well, it wouldn't work as intended. You need to match the XDF to the BIN you are trying to work on. Hope that helps.
    The tune IS in the xdf. Please look at the bottom of the XDF it outlines the changes which will be applied to a bin file.

    I'm no tuner but explain what this might be:

    Code:
     <XDFPATCH uniqueid="0x3BCA">    <title>Stage 1 OTS</title>
        <XDFPATCHENTRY name="Rev Limit by Gear Floor (AT)" address="0x4A2A0" datasize="0x12" patchdata="201C201C201C201C201C201C201C201C201C" />
        <XDFPATCHENTRY name="Rev Limit Gear Ceiling (AT)" address="0x4A2C8" datasize="0x12" patchdata="201C201C201C201C201C201C201C201C201C" />
        <XDFPATCHENTRY name="Rev Limit by Gear Floor (MT)" address="0x4A2B4" datasize="0x12" patchdata="201C201C201C201C201C201C201C201C201C" />
        <XDFPATCHENTRY name="Rev Limit Gear Ceiling (MT)" address="0x4A2DC" datasize="0x12" patchdata="201C201C201C201C201C201C201C201C201C" />
        <XDFPATCHENTRY name="Rev Limit by Gear Ceiling (AT" address="0x4A2F0" datasize="0x12" patchdata="201C201C201C201C201C201C201C201C201C" />
        <XDFPATCHENTRY name="Rev Limit Gear Ceiling (MT Mo" address="0x4A304" datasize="0x12" patchdata="201C201C201C201C201C201C201C201C201C" />
        <XDFPATCHENTRY name="Torque Limit Offset A" address="0x4B344" datasize="0x20" patchdata="409F409F409F409FE090E090E0900099E090E090E0900099E090E090E0900099" />
        <XDFPATCHENTRY name="WGDC Position Back to WGDC" address="0x5D092" datasize="0x10" patchdata="1F05AE07140E9919482166263333CD8C" />
    </XDFPATCH>
    Click here to enlarge
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    FWIW, RomRaider will probably work to tune and is actually open source (Java *groan*). It uses an XML definition file. However, there is no "patching". You just modify the entire ROM and pass that around. It shouldn't be super hard to write an XML transform to turn an XDF into the RomRaider XML format. Then when you need something that TunerPro won't do, you can just code it into RomRaider.

    I would think keeping the table definitions and actual tune/patch/rom/bin separate would be a good idea.

    Patch files are neat, but really, these aren't large files to begin with. 2MB raw? Probably much smaller if zipped. Patch files can be dangerous if you apply a patch from one rev of an ECU to another. I.e. patch data for changing the fuel table for IJEOS is probably different than IJDOS. The table probably moved, etc. You may accidentally patch over code instead of a tuning table. I don't think dealing with patches is worth the effort outside of special circumstances, especially if there is no safety function that keeps you from applying patches to the wrong ROM rev.

  17. #42
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    since this thread seems to focus on technical aspects of open source, when do you guys think we may have throttle mapping defined in the various ROM versions?

    the Shiv throttle mapping is driving me insane!

  18. #43
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge
    since this thread seems to focus on technical aspects of open source, when do you guys think we may have throttle mapping defined in the various ROM versions?

    the Shiv throttle mapping is driving me insane!
    car so fast...

    can't handle shiv maps
    Click here to enlarge

  19. #44
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Marz Click here to enlarge
    Where would we find these uploads. Under download section of forum or under N54. I understand it's not there yet.. Just curious though Click here to enlarge
    Download section which every file upload you will be notified in the n54 forum regarding it.

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  20. #45
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by xbox_fan Click here to enlarge
    Is the BB OS flash released yet?
    No, everyone would know...

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    Totally get that. I'm somewhat familiar with the disassembly process and the associated headaches. I started this thread so that the community can begin to identify what all these tables and features do. I'll do some tinkering with x and figure out what happens. You might mess with y based on my x results and as long as we contribute to the base of knowledge of the dme, eventually we'll figure out the logic. I just wanted to start it off. My car is in the shop. When it comes out, I'll begin the discovery process.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lulz_m3 Click here to enlarge
    You have to understand that Shiv is using a lot of Cobb's settings on these tables to bypass torque limits and other nannies. You will likely not run across anything that can provide a strong understanding of how these tables work, its non intuitive unless you have the decoder ring. You will likely need to do some playing around on your own to understand it. You could try reading Cobbs ATR help me file if you have access to it, it gives some brief information on alot of these tables but basically just says change to xx to get this nanny out of the way etc.

  22. #47
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    Yes I understand the XDF has been set up to patch bins. Boom was trying to compare BIN's if I understood him correctly, which he seems to be doing just fine but would require loading an XDF, BIN, and another bin to the compare tool, unless you can just use the compare tool with the patch XDF loaded (I've never done that). So I'm not sure what he was talking about honestly other than maybe trying to figure out what those differences were since he seems to be able to use the compare and difference tool as intended just fine.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by V8Bait Click here to enlarge
    Yes I understand the XDF has been set up to patch bins. Boom was trying to compare BIN's if I understood him correctly, which he seems to be doing just fine but would require loading an XDF, BIN, and another bin to the compare tool, unless you can just use the compare tool with the patch XDF loaded (I've never done that). So I'm not sure what he was talking about honestly other than maybe trying to figure out what those differences were since he seems to be able to use the compare and difference tool as intended just fine.
    I compare Shiv's stg1 xdf patched to my stock bin with my stock bin unpatched. I believe the xdf defines the tables, etc. but does not change the values until you "patch" whatever bin you're looking at. All of the files I'm looking at came from my stock bin and patching with an xdf and I do see significant differences btw them. One of my original questions was about the fueling because when I look at the stock bin it shows WOT target afr at 10.8 but I have never seen stock n54's dyno with fuel numbers anywhere close to that number..

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by boom Click here to enlarge
    One of my original questions was about the fueling because when I look at the stock bin it shows WOT target afr at 10.8 but I have never seen stock n54's dyno with fuel numbers anywhere close to that number..
    What load cells target 10.8? Keep in mind that stock, the DME runs very little boost, especially up top. They probably run very rich in high load cells that will typically not be achieved in oem form as another safety blanket.
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    AFR banks 1 & 2.

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