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  1. #1
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    Cool First flash only single turbo N54?

    Okay, last month Terry and I got boost control moved over from a manual boost controller to the JB4 on my single turbo setup. It didn't take Terry very long to get the JB4 G5 dialed in. Over the past few days, I have been working on flash only control with the Cobb. I have a couple of logs pasted below that were captured using the JB4 on bypass map 4 (I like the simplicity of the JB4 logging and being able to see the graph instantly). These are the two that looked the best, but there's still some work to do.

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    that looks pretty fun once it spools up!
    11.76 @ 124 (123.9) full weight e92 335i, street tires, no meth.

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    Hey great news! Click here to enlarge oem solenoids plumbed to intake manifold?
    Click here to enlarge

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    Remember though on map 4 (or even map 0) the JB4 still runs boost. To block it and force DME only control you remove the white subconnector putting that one back to stock, leaving the other 3 connected.

    I think given the solenoid reconfiguration we've worked up it's possible to tune it flash only but I see lots of potential pitfalls. Ultimately I don't think its going to be worth the trouble. Someone will spend more in labor than a JB4 costs trying to dial it in and they will probably need a JB4 anyway for logging, gauges in dash, meth control, etc.
    Last edited by Terry@BMS; 08-09-2013 at 12:00 AM.
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    Eleventeen, this is a gt35r with what a/r housing ?


    I need to trade my procede for a JB4. Why I still have this thing is beyond me.

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    Post shift timing recovery looks great! How are you liking your new manifold? I take it you're not burning through o2 sensors like you were? Car must be a blast!

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    How are you dealing with errors due to O2 sensor confusion? Or are you doing it Shiv-style?

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    One thing about Shiv/FFTEC style manifold I'm still to understand fully is when it comes to the rear O2 placement. Given the school of thought that the rear O2 sensors play into self-calibration of the front O2s (not sure this is the case but it did come up a couple times from some tuners) how is the DME able to self-calibrate the front O2s properly given the rear O2s are plugged in post turbo (i.e. into a single pipe where the gases mix). How does this NOT cause self-calibration issues for the DME and the front O2s, or, maybe it does??
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@PTF Click here to enlarge
    One thing about Shiv/FFTEC style manifold I'm still to understand fully is when it comes to the rear O2 placement. Given the school of thought that the rear O2 sensors play into self-calibration of the front O2s (not sure this is the case but it did come up a couple times from some tuners) how is the DME able to self-calibrate the front O2s properly given the rear O2s are plugged in post turbo (i.e. into a single pipe where the gases mix). How does this NOT cause self-calibration issues for the DME and the front O2s, or, maybe it does??
    I guess there is no proof of this being addressed, you have to wait until there is a fully working single turbo kit on the market Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by xbox_fan Click here to enlarge
    I guess there is no proof of this being addressed, you have to wait until there is a fully working single turbo kit on the market Click here to enlarge
    Cool thing is I actually don't have to wait Click here to enlarge I'm starting to tune a single GTX35R, undivided housing, 1.06AR tomorrow morning, custom built locally for someone. Super excited about it. Just wanted to see what the thought process on that was given everyone stuffing rear O2s post turbine single downpipe
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Remember though on map 4 (or even map 0) the JB4 still runs boost. To block it and force DME only control you remove the white subconnector putting that one back to stock, leaving the other 3 connected.

    I think given the solenoid reconfiguration we've worked up it's possible to tune it flash only but I see lots of potential pitfalls. Ultimately I don't think its going to be worth the trouble. Someone will spend more in labor than a JB4 costs trying to dial it in and they will probably need a JB4 anyway for logging, gauges in dash, meth control, etc.
    Okay, I wasn't sure if the JB4 did anything with boost while being bypassed. I'm going to remove the white sub-connector and see how it works. If it sucks, then I'll just leave the boost control on the JB4 side. Thanks!

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by CannonFodder Click here to enlarge
    Eleventeen, this is a gt35r with what a/r housing ?


    I need to trade my procede for a JB4. Why I still have this thing is beyond me.
    I'm currently running the 1.03 A/R Tial housing.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Carl Morris Click here to enlarge
    How are you dealing with errors due to O2 sensor confusion? Or are you doing it Shiv-style?
    Yep, the same way Shiv / FFTEC placed them.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bmw335iguy Click here to enlarge
    Post shift timing recovery looks great! How are you liking your new manifold? I take it you're not burning through o2 sensors like you were? Car must be a blast!
    So far, so good on those. The new manifold design seems to be working well.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Eleventeen Click here to enlarge
    Okay, I wasn't sure if the JB4 did anything with boost while being bypassed. I'm going to remove the white sub-connector and see how it works. If it sucks, then I'll just leave the boost control on the JB4 side. Thanks!
    I think you'll find you can sort of kind of make it work but it's going to be a big pain in your ass and not worth the trouble. Click here to enlarge
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@PTF Click here to enlarge
    One thing about Shiv/FFTEC style manifold I'm still to understand fully is when it comes to the rear O2 placement. Given the school of thought that the rear O2 sensors play into self-calibration of the front O2s (not sure this is the case but it did come up a couple times from some tuners) how is the DME able to self-calibrate the front O2s properly given the rear O2s are plugged in post turbo (i.e. into a single pipe where the gases mix). How does this NOT cause self-calibration issues for the DME and the front O2s, or, maybe it does??
    i don't see a calibration issue... Potentially a DME perceived issue since they would have similar readings. Moving them farther apart may solve this. There's likely a sensitivity setting.

    What happens when you swap rear O2s. I know the fronts car won't drive but haven't heard of rears being a "huge" issue.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@PTF Click here to enlarge
    One thing about Shiv/FFTEC style manifold I'm still to understand fully is when it comes to the rear O2 placement. Given the school of thought that the rear O2 sensors play into self-calibration of the front O2s (not sure this is the case but it did come up a couple times from some tuners) how is the DME able to self-calibrate the front O2s properly given the rear O2s are plugged in post turbo (i.e. into a single pipe where the gases mix). How does this NOT cause self-calibration issues for the DME and the front O2s, or, maybe it does??
    It does but some cars have problems with it and others don't, for some reason. Just like some can run a DPFIX for years without issue and others can't go for a day or two with trim codes.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Remember though on map 4 (or even map 0) the JB4 still runs boost. To block it and force DME only control you remove the white subconnector putting that one back to stock, leaving the other 3 connected.

    I think given the solenoid reconfiguration we've worked up it's possible to tune it flash only but I see lots of potential pitfalls. Ultimately I don't think its going to be worth the trouble. Someone will spend more in labor than a JB4 costs trying to dial it in and they will probably need a JB4 anyway for logging, gauges in dash, meth control, etc.
    for a single turbo, with external wastegates, i do like a procede or jb4 to control boost. it just makes the most logical sense, to me, because of the logic that can be uploaded to the piggy back, that cannot be done (yet) to the DME

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by eldo Click here to enlarge
    for a single turbo, with external wastegates, i do like a procede or jb4 to control boost. it just makes the most logical sense, to me, because of the logic that can be uploaded to the piggy back, that cannot be done (yet) to the DME
    I don't disagree but I'd say its a bit premature to discount what the DME can/can't do at this point. We'll know soon enough though just how easy or hard this really is and also, how well it can work..glad to see someone else too trying to skin the cat a bit differently Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@PTF Click here to enlarge
    I don't disagree but I'd say its a bit premature to discount what the DME can/can't do at this point. We'll know soon enough though just how easy or hard this really is and also, how well it can work..glad to see someone else too trying to skin the cat a bit differently Click here to enlarge
    Agreed. I'd like flash-only to get a fair shot.
    I've run a piggyback for years and want to stay flash-only.
    Change is constant

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    Terry, just to confirm: Unplugging the WHITE sub-connector from the JB4 harness and inserting the white OEM sub-connector removes all boost control from the JB4? That's what I did and everything seems to be working as it should; I just want to verify that the DME has full control of boost this way.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JoshBoody Click here to enlarge
    i don't see a calibration issue... Potentially a DME perceived issue since they would have similar readings. Moving them farther apart may solve this. There's likely a sensitivity setting.

    What happens when you swap rear O2s. I know the fronts car won't drive but haven't heard of rears being a "huge" issue.
    On mine I got codes indicating that the sensors were swapped. After a good 3rd gear pull the car would stumble a bit, then the front O2 sensors seemed to cycle from lean to rich, one would read super rich while the other read super lean. After 20-30 seconds they would even out and read the same.

    I've been running without the rear O2 sensors plugged in for about a month now, and haven't had that O2 cycling issue since. I'll probably plug them back in soon, but for now I just disabled the 2C9E and 2C9F codes.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Eleventeen Click here to enlarge
    Terry, just to confirm: Unplugging the WHITE sub-connector from the JB4 harness and inserting the white OEM sub-connector removes all boost control from the JB4? That's what I did and everything seems to be working as it should; I just want to verify that the DME has full control of boost this way.
    Right, the white patch controls the solenoids and fuel pressure bias. So with that connector stock on map 4 it should not be making any wastegate changes. In the log dutycycle will be the factory dutycycle then. It may still be running or effecting throttle. Not tried any of this stuff on ISO.

    Now that I think of it I think you'll need to upload the integrated firmware and use map 4 to block it from doing anything with throttle.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Right, the white patch controls the solenoids and fuel pressure bias. So with that connector stock on map 4 it should not be making any wastegate changes. In the log dutycycle will be the factory dutycycle then. It may still be running or effecting throttle. Not tried any of this stuff on ISO.

    Now that I think of it I think you'll need to upload the integrated firmware and use map 4 to block it from doing anything with throttle.
    I'm not sure I've ever seen you mention the integrated firmware. Where do I get that?

    As far as the boost control, I did a few logs with the white sub-connector removed and boost control looks surprisingly good. Your configuration for plumbing the stock solenoid was ingenious. The only issues I've been seeing are some instances where timing drops off the chart never to return until I let of the gas (or reduce throttle). This has been happening since upping the load targets on the flash a few days ago when I started trying to get the flash to run boost. I'm thinking it's some sort of torque limiting value, but it usually happens at only 3300 or so RPM (before the turbo really picks up boost).

    Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge

  25. #25
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    Add duty cycle to log. Doesn't look half bad. How is part throttle?

    Integrated g5 firmware is linked in jb4 sticky on n54tech.

    On timing looks like a torque limit.
    Last edited by Terry@BMS; 08-10-2013 at 12:01 AM.
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