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  1. #1
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    cry02 kit for fmic

    Do we have anybody running cry02 kit on there n54's or any other engine

    http://www.xplosiveperformance.com/C...it-_p_729.html


    I've been reading up on this and would like some feedback from the community

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    Click here to enlarge .

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    I've heard the benefits of the meth kits are better than spraying the IC externally. But maybe somebody can chime in that's actually tested them.
    2008 135i - Cobb AP, JB4 G5 w/2Step&FSB, MS DP's, Berk street exhaust, AMS IC, VTT Inlets, UR Intake, ER CP w/Tial BOV, Spec 3+ & Steel FW, CDV delete, Quaife LSD, DSS Axles, M3 control arms, M3 rear SF bushings, M3 Trans bushings, SS brake lines. Pics

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    I'd guess meth injection would be a much better use of your money.

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    get the small version and put it in your intake trac

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    get the small version and put it in your intake trac
    Can you expand on this a little with your personal experiences or observations? Sounds interesting... curious what you did.

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    i havent done anything, but if i were to do it, especially on an n54 with meth..
    Ive seen smaller egg shaped inserts that you can spray n20 into that mount in your intake track. i would do it pre IC to help the fmic reduce temps. i cant seem to find it now though

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    i havent done anything, but if i were to do it, especially on an n54 with meth..
    Ive seen smaller egg shaped inserts that you can spray n20 into that mount in your intake track. i would do it pre IC to help the fmic reduce temps. i cant seem to find it now though
    http://www.summitracing.com/search/d...ng-air-intakes
    H O O N

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    yup, thats it.. id cool the air down as much as possible before it gets to IC and then dowsed with meth

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    Correct me if I'm wrong but normally I think the plan is to cool it after the IC as the IC is going to be X% amount efficient no matter what. If you cool it before the IC you can still only get close to ambient where if you run through the IC and then cool it some more it gets to ambient or under. But after the IC things get crowded if your trying to do more than meth which is why I think most people are fine with just that.
    2008 135i - Cobb AP, JB4 G5 w/2Step&FSB, MS DP's, Berk street exhaust, AMS IC, VTT Inlets, UR Intake, ER CP w/Tial BOV, Spec 3+ & Steel FW, CDV delete, Quaife LSD, DSS Axles, M3 control arms, M3 rear SF bushings, M3 Trans bushings, SS brake lines. Pics

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    It will drop the IC temp sure.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by brusk Click here to enlarge
    Correct me if I'm wrong but normally I think the plan is to cool it after the IC as the IC is going to be X% amount efficient no matter what. If you cool it before the IC you can still only get close to ambient where if you run through the IC and then cool it some more it gets to ambient or under. But after the IC things get crowded if your trying to do more than meth which is why I think most people are fine with just that.
    probably, but like i said, if using meth and want to try a chiller, id use that, probably in that configuration for ease.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by brusk Click here to enlarge
    Correct me if I'm wrong but normally I think the plan is to cool it after the IC as the IC is going to be X% amount efficient no matter what. If you cool it before the IC you can still only get close to ambient where if you run through the IC and then cool it some more it gets to ambient or under. But after the IC things get crowded if your trying to do more than meth which is why I think most people are fine with just that.
    Even once a substance reaches its boiling point, it has to absorb a significant amount of additional heat before a phase change occurs. This additional heat is know as latent heat, and because the phase change is liquid to gas in this case, it is know as the latent heat of vaporization (or evaporation).

    Click here to enlarge
    Note: Don't pay too much attention to the 80 and 539 calories as this is for a specific amount of water and only relevant in the context of the discussion on the site where I found this picture. (http://piercecollegeweather.com)

    This graph is for water, but the concept can be applied to any substance. As heat is added to the water, it changes from solid to liquid to gas. Each time a phase change occurs, a significant amount of heat must be added before the phase change is complete, even once the temperature at which the phase change occurs is reached. As you can see, the temperature does not increase during this time. If you've ever hear the term "evaporative cooling" this is what they are talking about. As a substance evaporates, it absorbs heat and cools the ambient environment. The same phenomenon is used in all refrigeration, where through part of the system the refrigerant is a gas, and through the other part of the system, it is a liquid. The refrigerant must take on significant heat as it is evaporated in the evaporator coil (passenger foot well), and it gives off significant heat as it condenses, in the condenser coil (in front of the radiator).

    The idea behind this CryO2 system is to use the phase change of the CO2 from a liquid to a gas to cool the ambient air to a temperature below ambient before it passes through the inter cooler. This will cause the temperature of the air flowing through the inter cooler to drop substantially. This allows the inter cooler to transfer more heat out of the charge air (be more efficient) because the temperature difference between the air on the outside of the inter cooler and the charge air is larger. I think this would work much better than the egg shaped intake tract cooler seen above.

    The reason I think the egg shaped thing is inferior comes down to surface area. The surface area inside the inter cooler is obviously much, much greater than the surface area of the little bulb. While the bulb might be very cold, not much heat is going to be transferred because to transfer heat, the air much come into contact with the bulb (conduction), and as you can see from the pictures, the surface area is low. Imagine the torrent of air rushing past that little bulb very quickly. There is just not much time for the heat to transfer from the air and into the bulb. If that bulb had some long Al fins attached to it, it would work much better.

    Another area where I feel that bulb insert is lacking is cross sectional area. You basically put a 1 inch round obstruction in a three inch pipe, removing 11.8% of the cross sectional area. If you added fins to the bulb, this number would be higher. The inside of your inter cooler is going to have a much larger cross sectional area. Because you are not removing the inter cooler (which has its own pressure drop), what you end up with is additional pressure drop across the bulb insert.

    So to keep pressure drop at a minimum, and make use of some chemistry, I think spraying the outside of the inter cooler with liquid, atomized CO2 would work better than the bulb intake insert. Even spraying the outside of the inter cooler with a mist of water would work as well, as long as the humidity is low enough to allow the water to change phases completely. Some Suburu turbo cars came from the factory with a water spray system for the outside of the inter cooler. It's not just a gimmick.
    Eppur si muove.

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    Another reasong for the IC; remember for phase changes the amount of additional heat (Q) needed to complete the change is dependent on a number of things. Unfortunately one of the bigger ones is the rate at which the heat is being added. If you were to add heat at X rate and 2X rate, then the 2X rate reaction is going to change phases with less heat. Less heat needed means we reduced the charge's heat value less which isn't the goal, we want maximum heat value reduction. So ideally you'd want whatever it is your cooling with the liquid CO2 to be consistently exposed to the heat, not rapid changes.

    With the way air moves through pipes this makes the concept of spraying a large IC much better than the small bulb as well. Your rate of heat exposure Δ is smaller in the IC than in the bulb, so it'll require more heat to change phases (IE more effecient cooling). This IS different than just one having larger surface area. Image below ex. why.Click here to enlarge
    A and B both have the same surface area. Though not shown, same volume of air is going across both. Same surface area. Same volume. Orientation allows for A to have more exposure time at identifical flow rates(air), therefore exchanges more heat.

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    i dont have the background to argue as i dont know and just generally curious, the cry02 setup on the outside of the fmic, has to A- cool the metal of the cry02 ring, B- ring has to cool air that crosses fmic, C that air has to cool FMIC metal, D that metal has to cool air passing through FMIC. thats a lof of transfering around isnt it, as opposed to the bulb in the flow of incoming air?

    i mean, i dont car where you put the buld, or even the cryo ring, as long as its in direct flow, the inatak track, open the fmic and mount it in there, etc.. but as sold in basic form, i dont see too much benefit to it.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    i dont have the background to argue as i dont know and just generally curious, the cry02 setup on the outside of the fmic, has to A- cool the metal of the cry02 ring, B- ring has to cool air that crosses fmic, C that air has to cool FMIC metal, D that metal has to cool air passing through FMIC. thats a lof of transfering around isnt it, as opposed to the bulb in the flow of incoming air?

    i mean, i dont car where you put the buld, or even the cryo ring, as long as its in direct flow, the inatak track, open the fmic and mount it in there, etc.. but as sold in basic form, i dont see too much benefit to it.
    I'm not trying to argue...

    I think the CryO2 ring has small holes in it which the liquid CO2 sprays out of and then the liquid changes to a gas and makes the air flowing through the outside of the inter cooler significantly cooler which results in colder charge air.

    Click here to enlarge
    Eppur si muove.

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    To me it seems more useful as a drag strip application and not so much for a daily driver option. I'd love to see somebody try it and compare the results vs Meth.
    2008 135i - Cobb AP, JB4 G5 w/2Step&FSB, MS DP's, Berk street exhaust, AMS IC, VTT Inlets, UR Intake, ER CP w/Tial BOV, Spec 3+ & Steel FW, CDV delete, Quaife LSD, DSS Axles, M3 control arms, M3 rear SF bushings, M3 Trans bushings, SS brake lines. Pics

  18. #18
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ajm8127 Click here to enlarge
    I'm not trying to argue...

    I think the CryO2 ring has small holes in it which the liquid CO2 sprays out of and then the liquid changes to a gas and makes the air flowing through the outside of the inter cooler significantly cooler which results in colder charge air.

    Click here to enlarge
    that makes more sense then

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    seems like money could be better spent in other places... IMO
    Click here to enlarge
    FBO's. Spec S2+. E85.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rdeterman Click here to enlarge
    seems like money could be better spent in other places... IMO
    Like @brusk said, this would be most applicable to drag races. I would buy a meth kit first, because it actually provides fuel and cooling capabilities. If you already have a meth kit, and want colder charge air, this may be a solution.
    Eppur si muove.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by wreckz Click here to enlarge
    Do we have anybody running cry02 kit on there n54's or any other engine

    http://www.xplosiveperformance.com/C...it-_p_729.html


    I've been reading up on this and would like some feedback from the community
    don't do it. it's gimmicky and not that reliable. i'd rather run meth or e85 than spraying nitrous on the IC

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TerpEvo Click here to enlarge
    Another reasong for the IC; remember for phase changes the amount of additional heat (Q) needed to complete the change is dependent on a number of things. Unfortunately one of the bigger ones is the rate at which the heat is being added. If you were to add heat at X rate and 2X rate, then the 2X rate reaction is going to change phases with less heat. Less heat needed means we reduced the charge's heat value less which isn't the goal, we want maximum heat value reduction. So ideally you'd want whatever it is your cooling with the liquid CO2 to be consistently exposed to the heat, not rapid changes.

    With the way air moves through pipes this makes the concept of spraying a large IC much better than the small bulb as well. Your rate of heat exposure Δ is smaller in the IC than in the bulb, so it'll require more heat to change phases (IE more effecient cooling). This IS different than just one having larger surface area. Image below ex. why.Click here to enlarge
    A and B both have the same surface area. Though not shown, same volume of air is going across both. Same surface area. Same volume. Orientation allows for A to have more exposure time at identifical flow rates(air), therefore exchanges more heat.
    Why do I feel like I'm in a physics class.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by brusk Click here to enlarge
    To me it seems more useful as a drag strip application and not so much for a daily driver option. I'd love to see somebody try it and compare the results vs Meth.
    Of course and also makes sense for water/air guys at the strip who have done a few runs.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Why do I feel like I'm in a physics class.
    x2

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    The Cry O2 system is more suited to guys who drag race and have access to tuning. The benefit of the CRYO2 system is by running and data logging your pre and post air temps from the IC you can narrow the ambient air temps to a range you can tune to and regardless of outside temps how many passes or how hot you can predict the intake charge air temp and run consistent et's. Remember the colder the air the denser the air so the more fuel you can add. CryO2 is not a power adder it is a tuning aid. NO2 sprayed on an IC will do the same thing at 2-3 time the cost. Water meth works on a whole different premise and we see much more benefit from water meth in diesel engines than petro engines because of the additional fuel you add a methonal. Some sanctioning bodies rule water meth as the addition of another fuel or running mixed fuels. CRY02 works if you know how to use it and understand what you are trying to achive with it at the track consistent intake air temps mean consistent runs.

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