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  1. #26
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    I dont quite understand what youre problem is with the M1. You say a "true" M car is NA, yet all the fastest M3's out there are either supercharged or have an HPF kit. So are those M3's not "true" M's? Its only natural BMW makes an M car for the 1 series, every other model has one. Did you expect them to throw a V8 in 1 series? I dont think that would have worked. I'm not saying it cant be done, I just dont think that would have been a good idea from BMW's standpoint.

    Once this car comes out, I'm sure many of us will be surprised with what it offers. I doubt BMW will just up the boost and stiffen the suspension, and call it an M1. The E9X M3 is a nice car but clearly there is room for improment. As someone here said, its is expensive considering the power output. You can spend about the same and get a C63, or for less you can get a more powerfull IS-F. There is a reason BMW is staring to use Turbo's now...hence the upcoming M5 and M3. It is so much easier to extract power out of a FI motor and its probally most cost effiecent for BMW to use turbo's in the new motors. Instead of making big V8's ir V10's, BMW has decided to make a smaller FI motor that will make the same or more power, and be more efficient. I have no problem with that.

    To say it is not a "true" M because its FI isn't fair. When I think of the M badge, I think of a drivers car. Maybe not fastest car, but a great handling, powerful car. I think the M1 will be just that.
    I tend to agree with most of your posts, but honestly(to me anyways) you're sounding more like an M3 fanboy, that an objective M enthusiast.

  2. #27
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fast4door Click here to enlarge
    ou say a "true" M car is NA, yet all the fastest M3's out there are either supercharged or have an HPF kit.
    Yes, for more power in the aftermarket. Part of why they make so much power with forced induction is because they are so good NA to begin with. An M is not about brute power, certainly not from the factory.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fast4door Click here to enlarge
    Did you expect them to throw a V8 in 1 series? I dont think that would have worked. I'm not saying it cant be done, I just dont think that would have been a good idea from BMW's standpoint.
    If it was me, I would have thrown something resembling a modern S54 in there. Aluminum instead of iron block, and given it razor sharp response and the lightest weight possible.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fast4door Click here to enlarge
    Once this car comes out, I'm sure many of us will be surprised with what it offers. I doubt BMW will just up the boost and stiffen the suspension, and call it an M1.
    I don't, that is what they are already doing with the M SUV's.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fast4door Click here to enlarge
    As someone here said, its is expensive considering the power output. You can spend about the same and get a C63, or for less you can get a more powerfull IS-F.
    You spend the same and get a C63, and? Ok, it has more power on paper but doesn't use it any more efficiently so the cars are even in straightline speed. So what exactly is so powerful about it? The C63 handles worse and gets spanked around a track, where the M shines. The IS-F is slower than both, especially the DCT M3. I don't understand why people focus on figures on paper, who cares? What the car actually does with its power is what matters.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fast4door Click here to enlarge
    There is a reason BMW is staring to use Turbo's now...hence the upcoming M5 and M3.
    Yes, emissions and cost. Not because it is better. They are taking the path of least resistance, it is easier for them.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fast4door Click here to enlarge
    To say it is not a "true" M because its FI isn't fair. When I think of the M badge, I think of a drivers car.
    I think it absolutely is fair. This is not the same M we had for 3 decades. It will still be M, but it won't have the classic M soul. Nothing can be done about that, it will be a drivers car, but it will be different.
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  3. #28
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    Sticky I think you should embrace the new FI engines if you want this place to flourish.

  4. #29
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by FR305 Click here to enlarge
    Sticky I think you should embrace the new FI engines if you want this place to flourish.
    This place was made with that in mind. I won't simply thank M for selling out their principles. I will say something about the change taking place and give the past 3 decade of M cars the proper respect they deserve.
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  5. #30
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    The M1 appeals to this site more than the current M3. Everyone who owned any of the last generations of M3's has turned them to FI when looking for more power so why not get it FI from the factory. Is that not what you wanted? an FI car. If not then why SCd your car. You took that precious NA soul from your M3 the second you SCd it.
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  6. #31
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by FR305 Click here to enlarge
    The M1 appeals to this site more than the current M3.
    Please don't call it an M1, it is a 1M. Yes, this matters.

    How does it appeal more than the current M3? Not to me, not to the other M3 owners.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by FR305 Click here to enlarge
    Everyone who owned any of the last generations of M3's has turned them to FI when looking for more power so why not get it FI from the factory.
    Not everyone who has an M3 looks for aftermarket FI. The M3 is a balanced car in all respects from the factory. If you want power, you will need FI, no doubt. Why not get it from the factory? Because it won't have the characteristics from the factory that the current M cars do. You are losing something there.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by FR305 Click here to enlarge
    If not then why SCd your car. You took that precious NA soul from your M3
    My car still delivers the power in a different way than these turbo motors will and is more efficient with boost. I strictly added power, but my vehicle from the factory was perfect. I changed aspects of it strictly for greater power but that does not mean it is now more fun to drive on a canyon road, more difficult if anything. The vehicle also delivers power multiplication with the revs, just like the stock character.

    The main thing is, I had the choice to add forced induction. Now, the decision has been made for us. Additionally, this NA motor with forced induction has more potential than these smaller direct injection motors. So ultimately, the NA motors make better platforms. Look at the S54 and S65 aftermarket power for proof. Best of both worlds, now we only get 1.
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  7. #32
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    I think the new modded 1M's are going to steal the thunder from the M3 and you are mad. The M3 is weak sauce even the new Mustang GT outperforms it. I hope the 1m outperforms the Mustang GT and BMW gets some respect back.
    Click here to enlarge

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    You know sticky, we actually agree Click here to enlarge

    I'm really surprised to read this here, though. This is bimmerBOOST. Shouldn't all you SC/turbo guys support FI M cars? I've been sticking with NA modding and making my car lighter because I agree with everything you said in point 7, 9, and 10. Highly extracted NA motors are what give M cars their character, imo.

  9. #34
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    Hey FR305, how old are you?

  10. #35
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by FR305 Click here to enlarge
    I think the new modded 1M's are going to steal the thunder from the M3 and you are mad. The M3 is weak sauce even the new Mustang GT outperforms it. I hope the 1m outperforms the Mustang GT and BMW gets some respect back.
    The 1M won't eclipse the M3, not something BMW will do. They maintain their hierarchy.

    Steal thunder? New models come and go, this is about the end of a very special era that deserves to be recognized as do all the great M cars produced during it. I hope the 1M is spectacular.

    The Mustang GT is a great car, that also has come years after the M3 came out.
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  11. #36
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Obioban Click here to enlarge
    Shouldn't all you SC/turbo guys support FI M cars?
    We do support FI M cars, but no one said anything about FI M cars from the factory or not being critical of BMW.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Obioban
    Highly extracted NA motors are what give M cars their character, imo.
    Well, well, well, how about that.
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  12. #37
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    The 1M won't eclipse the M3, not something BMW will do. They maintain their hierarchy.

    Steal thunder? New models come and go, this is about the end of a very special era that deserves to be recognized as do all the great M cars produced during it. I hope the 1M is spectacular.

    The Mustang GT is a great car, that also has come years after the M3 came out.
    maybe not acceleration wise but around the track the 1M is going to be faster. Same way the M3 is faster than the m6 around the track
    Click here to enlarge

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    0 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    i want 1 with a dct if Sticky pays for it.
    Click here to enlargeClick here to enlarge

  14. #39
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by FR305 Click here to enlarge
    maybe not acceleration wise but around the track the 1M is going to be faster. Same way the M3 is faster than the m6 around the track
    I think that is a possible scenario on a tighter track.

    The GTS will ultimately be faster than either the base M3 or the 1 M coupe. We will see, direct comparisons are inevitable.
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  15. #40
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    0 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    I think whoever neg repped me is a homo, and the 1M is gay as well.
    Click here to enlargeClick here to enlarge

  16. #41
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I think that is a possible scenario on a tighter track.

    The GTS will ultimately be faster than either the base M3 or the 1 M coupe. We will see, direct comparisons are inevitable.
    No one cares about the GTS, its not available in the US. Anyways the 1m is going to be faster than the m3 around the track and most definitely quicker in the 1/4 mile with very little tunning.
    Click here to enlarge

  17. #42
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I think that is a possible scenario on a tighter track.

    The GTS will ultimately be faster than either the base M3 or the 1 M coupe. We will see, direct comparisons are inevitable.
    No one cares about the GTS, its not available in the US. Anyways the 1m is going to be faster than the m3 around the track and most definitely quicker in the 1/4 mile with very little tunning.
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by FR305 Click here to enlarge
    No one cares about the GTS, its not available in the US. Anyways the 1m is going to be faster than the m3 around the track and most definitely quicker in the 1/4 mile with very little tunning.
    yes Franklin
    Click here to enlargeClick here to enlarge

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    1. Why do you think they are downscaling M? I highly doubt this car will be sold for less than 50k. That is still a lot of money to many buyers.
    2. The only thing "Pure" IMO is the speculation.
    3-4. Build it and they will come. Perhaps it is a test water for the future. This car will be embraced, parts will happen even in low builds that creates a uniqueness that others will love and the "mass" produced M owners will hate.
    5. M3 is the benchmark sports car, it out performs the M6. What makes you think that wont happen in the future?
    6. Not with a warranty.
    7. Welcome to Bimmerboost!
    8. I see them as keeping pace with other car manufacturers world wide, SRT, AMG. BMW didn't start that war, they are just joining the fight!
    9. Hardcore fan's. The BMW 2002 Turbo was launched at the 1973 was BMW's first production turbo, it produced 170 hp (127 kW) at 5,800 rpm, with 240 Nm (180 lbft) of torque. IMO History is just repeating itself.
    10. A new "Beginning" is upon us.

    Sorry, if I sounds like I'm taking pop shots Sticky. I think this will be a great car. At least I hope.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by GG///M3 Click here to enlarge
    I think whoever neg repped me is a homo, and the 1M is gay as well.
    GG, read this please: http://www.bimmerboost.com/showthrea...1516#post51516
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  21. #46
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Adgar Click here to enlarge
    Sorry, if I sounds like I'm taking pop shots Sticky.
    Not at all.

    New beginning is the key word. The question will be, is it a better era?
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  22. #47
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by FR305 Click here to enlarge
    No one cares about the GTS, its not available in the US. Anyways the 1m is going to be faster than the m3 around the track and most definitely quicker in the 1/4 mile with very little tunning.
    It not being in the US is yet another problem but we can delve into that later. Does not change the fact this won't be out lapping that particular M3, which is what the M3 really should have been.

    Any forced induction car will be quicker than the M3 with little tuning. It isn't a fair comparison. The M3 with an SC though will be out of reach. So what do you want, cheap tuning, or ultimately more power? I made my choice.
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  23. #48
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    It not being in the US is yet another problem but we can delve into that later. Does not change the fact this won't be out lapping that particular M3, which is what the M3 really should have been.

    Any forced induction car will quicker than the M3 with little tuning. It isn't a fair comparison. The M3 with an SC though will be out of reach. So what do you want, cheap tuning, or ultimately more power? I made my choice.
    Well as it is It appears that with the 1m you can have both cheap power and ultimately more power. You say a M3 with SC would be out of reach but the 1M is probably going to get and aftermarket turbo/turbos shortly after it goes on sale and its going to blow a supercharged m3 out of the water.
    Click here to enlarge

  24. #49
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    Here is a rendering for those picturing the look:

    Click here to enlarge
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by FR305 Click here to enlarge
    Well as it is It appears that with the 1m you can have both cheap power and ultimately more power. You say a M3 with SC would be out of reach but the 1M is probably going to get and aftermarket turbo/turbos shortly after it goes on sale and its going to blow a supercharged m3 out of the water.
    Hahahah, what? Frank, you have no idea what you are talking about.

    Yes, an M3 with SC will be out of reach. You are limited with fueling on the DI motors, it isn't like an EVO or STI where you just strap on a bigger turbo and bigger injectors. I won't even get into the fuel pump issues when taxing the fuel system.

    Plus, SC M3's are very fast, I don't think you understand what you are saying. There is no such thing as more power than an SC M3 on an N54 for "cheap." Even upgraded turbos are still short by 100+ whp, and that is with M3's on single digit boost. Wait until you see what is in store.
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