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  1. #26
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    Thanks for the feedback. I don't mind removing and reinstalling a couple times a year. Will my car run right w/o the dpfix and no cats w/o a tune? I am FBO but don't have a tune on the car.

    So if a car is FBO w/o tune will the engine run right with constant rear O2 sensors being way out of parameter?

    It sounds like simply gapping the rear sensors won't help the situation either. So that options out.

    Thanks for the info!

  2. #27
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by robertm Click here to enlarge
    Will my car run right w/o the dpfix and no cats w/o a tune? I am FBO but don't have a tune on the car.
    Yes but why no tune?
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  3. #28
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Yes but why no tune?
    Thanks for the reply.

    Bought a unit almost a year ago but disappointed in the level of customer support I've seen from them so never installed. I'm just kind of waiting until all the new options for our motors fleshes out before going with one or another. Car is a 1M so it's still a hoot with just stock software and all the mechanical bolt ons. Plus it's my daily driver and I have a dedicated race car so I try to keep the amount of tinkering to a minimum (says the guy with FMIC, DPs, midpipes, intake, OCC, charge pipe and PCV valve upgrade. )

  4. #29
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by robertm Click here to enlarge
    Thanks for the reply.

    Bought a unit almost a year ago but disappointed in the level of customer support I've seen from them so never installed. I'm just kind of waiting until all the new options for our motors fleshes out before going with one or another. Car is a 1M so it's still a hoot with just stock software and all the mechanical bolt ons. Plus it's my daily driver and I have a dedicated race car so I try to keep the amount of tinkering to a minimum (says the guy with FMIC, DPs, midpipes, intake, OCC, charge pipe and PCV valve upgrade. )
    Makes sense.
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  5. #30
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    Just wanted to update this thread a piece of useful information.

    Should there ever be doubt you've connected the right rear O2 sensor signal wire to the correct position on the DME connector the proper pin-out for the black DME connector (X60002) is

    Pin 19 - Bank 2 Rear O2 Sensor Signal (grey sheath)
    Pin 20 - Bank 1 Rear O2 Sensor Signal (black sheath)

    Just use a continuity tester if you ever have doubt you've put the right wire in the right spot.
    Eppur si muove.

  6. #31
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ajm8127 Click here to enlarge
    As I understand it, the way the car monitors catalyst operation is by comparing the pre and post catalyst sensor data. During cruising, the pre catalyst senor will fluctuate around and lambda of 1. Some times above, sometime below. The three way catalyst has the ability to store oxygen, so it acts as a buffer. What you see at the rear sensor is fluctuation, but only about 25 or 50% as often. It's the slower fluctuation of the rear sensor that the DME uses to gauge the functionality of the catalyst.

    With race downpipes, you remove the catalysts, thereby causing both the front and rear sensor to fluctuate at the same rate. What the DP Fix does is take the fluctuations of only one rear sensor and divides it, sending the resulting signal to both rear sensor inputs.

    Innovate is fairly clear on their site that factors like age and altitude can make the Bosch wideband sensors inaccurate. Their LC-1 wideband system uses free air calibration to periodically reset the sensor's calibration and keep it accurate despite changing conditions. Obviously BMW does not expect the owner or the service department to do periodic free air calibrations of the two wideband sensors. The work around is using data from the rear sensor to keep the front wideband in check.

    As noted above, the DP Fix takes the output of one sensor, divides it, and sends the signal to both sensor inputs on the DME. What happens is the DME never gets the proper rear sensor signal from one of the sensors. It gets the signal from the other banks's sensor. The fact that the signal has been divided is of no consequence because it is averaged over time. So what the DME does is apply corrections to Bank 2 wideband based on data from Bank 1 rear sensor. Obviously these corrections are erroneous.

    As you can image, acting on erroneous data the Bank 2 sensor can no longer give an accurate reading. So you may see a divergence in lambda between banks because the closed loop control of the second bank is functioning with an inaccurate sensor, as it has had the wrong calibration applied to it. Or maybe you won't see the divergence, because the sensor is reading one thing, but the actual lambda is something different.

    Of course this is somewhat of a theory because no one has the source code for the DME. However, BMS does not recommend the DP Fix be left on the car for precisely this reason. I believe it was @themyst that was having mixture problems originally and it was traced back to the DP Fix with Terry's help.

    It would be nice if @Terry@BMS would add his two cents.
    Thank you for the in-depth explanation and for providing this rather elegant solution.

    Pardon my ignorance, but does the ECU harness give access to both post-cat O2 sensors? With that in mind, would it be possible to run two DPFIXes--one for each bank?

    Edit: Just saw the post above mine that gives the pin assignments for both O2 sensors. That answers one question...now the next one, can the DPFIX operate with just one input/output, and would this solve the calibration issue?

  7. #32
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by EvanL Click here to enlarge
    Thank you for the in-depth explanation and for providing this rather elegant solution.

    Pardon my ignorance, but does the ECU harness give access to both post-cat O2 sensors? With that in mind, would it be possible to run two DPFIXes--one for each bank?

    Edit: Just saw the post above mine that gives the pin assignments for both O2 sensors. That answers one question...now the next one, can the DPFIX operate with just one input/output, and would this solve the calibration issue?
    The DP fix has one input ans two outputs.

    I have considered using two DP fixes before. Each rear O2 would be hooked to a different DP Fix, then one output from each DP fix would connect to the proper input on the DME.

    However, I don't see why this would be necessary because simply using one DP fix is enough to pass inspection, then removing or disabling the DP fix has no detrimental effects. The car runs fine with no cats, it just wont pass inspection. I assume people running race downpipes have a piggyback or flash tune, so the CEL can be disabled.

    Give it a shot if you are so inclined, the extra DP Fix can always be sold if you choose not to use it.
    Eppur si muove.

  8. #33
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    This is very good information here!

    I wonder why would anyone need to keep the DP fix in place other than the time when they need to pass emissions? With Cobb everything is fine with catless downpipes and no DPFix present.

    The only time I've ever had to use the DP Fix was when I need to pass emissions. That's it.

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  9. #34
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by vasillalov Click here to enlarge
    I wonder why would anyone need to keep the DP fix in place other than the time when they need to pass emissions? With Cobb everything is fine with catless downpipes and no DPFix present.
    It's convenient to just install it to pass emissions, and as long as you plan on keeping the car just leave it installed. That was originally my plan when I had to get tested back in June, but then I read more into it and saw it indirectly affected fuel trims. So it's out until it needs to get tested again.
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  10. #35
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ajm8127 Click here to enlarge
    The DP fix has one input ans two outputs.

    I have considered using two DP fixes before. Each rear O2 would be hooked to a different DP Fix, then one output from each DP fix would connect to the proper input on the DME.

    However, I don't see why this would be necessary because simply using one DP fix is enough to pass inspection, then removing or disabling the DP fix has no detrimental effects. The car runs fine with no cats, it just wont pass inspection. I assume people running race downpipes have a piggyback or flash tune, so the CEL can be disabled.

    Give it a shot if you are so inclined, the extra DP Fix can always be sold if you choose not to use it.
    Hmm...if I weren't paying for two houses at the moment, I'd take on an experiment like this in a heartbeat! C'est la vie.

    Additionally, I imagine adjusting the multipliers would be a bit of a nightmare with two DPFIXes.

    My hesitation with pulling the DPFIX and using the JB4 auto-clear function is that, unless I'm mistaken, the auto-clear is a rather blanket function and it would be possible to miss other codes. Am I wrong about this--does the JB4 auto-clear function only target the DP codes??

  11. #36
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    I just started building this and found that BMW is a better source for connectors, you can get 3 through 6 connector male and female side connectors and pins to make your own harness.

    http://realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?...80&hg=61&fg=15
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  12. #37
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by EvanL Click here to enlarge
    Hmm...if I weren't paying for two houses at the moment, I'd take on an experiment like this in a heartbeat! C'est la vie.

    Additionally, I imagine adjusting the multipliers would be a bit of a nightmare with two DPFIXes.

    My hesitation with pulling the DPFIX and using the JB4 auto-clear function is that, unless I'm mistaken, the auto-clear is a rather blanket function and it would be possible to miss other codes. Am I wrong about this--does the JB4 auto-clear function only target the DP codes??
    The JB4 blanket clears yes so you can miss codes. What you want is to buy a BT cable and flash the backend flash for the JB4 (or read and modify your stock file), the flash can remove the codes so they will not set and you won't need to use auto clear anymore. You'd then just need the dpfix if local emissions tests verify readiness, and hope they don't go under the car.

  13. #38
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    Since I have the JB4 G5, do I follow the drawing the same way as posted on the 1st page? Thank you

  14. #39
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BeeMuh Click here to enlarge
    Since I have the JB4 G5, do I follow the drawing the same way as posted on the 1st page? Thank you
    I do not think the JB4 does anything with the rear O2 sensor signal except pass it along to the DME through the harness so it should work the same way. You can probably just pop out the wires from the JB4 harness in the proper positions for the rear O2 sensor signals and pop in new wires leading to the DP Fix and switch. This will prevent you from having to lap solder wires together and keep all modifications confined to the JB4 harness instead of modifying the wiring on the car.
    Eppur si muove.

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