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  1. #176
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by alex@ABRhouston Click here to enlarge
    You do what you want with that car, john Click here to enlarge


    It will be a "thank you", that's all. A token of gratitude to push the envelope of the platform
    Alex,

    what kind of upgrades can be done with the motor still installed? Just curious... Can pistons be done without pulling the motor? Assuming pistons can be done id more than likely do rods/crank at the same time. Im looking to build a motor but if I can have it done while still being installed that would be a plus. If not ill probably start looking for a spare motor to work on.
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    FBO's. Spec S2+. E85.

  2. #177
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    You'll need to pull the motor to upgrade any internals.

  3. #178
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    Sorry guys, I've been out in the desert running a pit crew for the last week at The King of the Hammers race. It's the hardest off road race in the world….

    In any case, yes the engine will have to be pulled and disassembled to have internals installed. the only thing I can see that could be done minimally would be the stud kits.
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  4. #179
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by alex@ABRhouston Click here to enlarge
    Sorry guys, I've been out in the desert running a pit crew for the last week at The King of the Hammers race. It's the hardest off road race in the world….

    In any case, yes the engine will have to be pulled and disassembled to have internals installed. the only thing I can see that could be done minimally would be the stud kits.
    King of Hammers -- way cool!

    Pix: http://photos.dailynews.com/2014/02/...f-road-race/#1

    Neil

  5. #180
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    @alex@ABRhouston maybe I missed it, but I went back in your original post and couldn't find anything about new upgraded valve springs. I would definitely want to do this if I choose to rebuild. Do you offer this? I'd think this would be as simple as just finding a similar motor that the same springs work from.
    2009 335i coupe back to stock...for now

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  6. #181
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MDORPHN Click here to enlarge
    King of Hammers -- way cool!

    Pix: http://photos.dailynews.com/2014/02/...f-road-race/#1

    Neil
    My car was picture number 7
    That's my driver/owner in the picture. I'm underneath it trying to fix the broken driveshaft, smashed transmission cooler….. Rough race.
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  7. #182
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mjmarovi Click here to enlarge
    @alex@ABRhouston maybe I missed it, but I went back in your original post and couldn't find anything about new upgraded valve springs. I would definitely want to do this if I choose to rebuild. Do you offer this? I'd think this would be as simple as just finding a similar motor that the same springs work from.
    When I spoke with Manley, they didn't think valve springs were going to be needed, if no aftermarket cams are going to be used. No extra lift/duration will cause more stress on the valves.
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  8. #183
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by alex@ABRhouston Click here to enlarge
    When I spoke with Manley, they didn't think valve springs were going to be needed, if no aftermarket cams are going to be used. No extra lift/duration will cause more stress on the valves.
    would extreme boost be a concern for valve float?

    or the crazy people seeing what slightly higher revs do on even stock cams? or that cams that are presumably more aggressive MIGHT be coming out in the coming months?

    just easier to treat as "fix it when we get there" ?
    boop

  9. #184
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    I don't believe that valve springs sense boost. Just cam profile and rpm.

    Neil

  10. #185
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    valve springs do not need to be upgraded if you are not changing ramp angles/lift or increasing RPMS.
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  11. #186
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MDORPHN Click here to enlarge
    I don't believe that valve springs sense boost. Just cam profile and rpm.

    Neil
    really?

    if you have 30psi boost, you have 30psi pushing down on the intake valve no?

    what's pushing back up except for the spring on anything other than compression?
    boop

  12. #187
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    really?

    if you have 30psi boost, you have 30psi pushing down on the intake valve no?

    what's pushing back up except for the spring on anything other than compression?
    A couple hundred lbs of spring pressure probably.

  13. #188
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    If you have even 60PSI of boost, it isn't going to stop a valve spring from closing it.
    I'll measure a stock one for you guys, just for fun Click here to enlarge
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  14. #189
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    Yeah, whatever boost you're running, you have that boost in the cylinder getting compressed. So you have a volume of air compressed at 30 lbs of boost in your combustion chamber getting compressed even further pushing up on a sealed valve.

  15. #190
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by alex@ABRhouston Click here to enlarge
    If you have even 60PSI of boost, it isn't going to stop a valve spring from closing it.
    I'll measure a stock one for you guys, just for fun Click here to enlarge
    yeah but what if you are running the springs CLOSE to their limit, then raise boost.. could it push it over into float?

    or if you have a slightly larger valve (say +1mm) in that same situation, you have more surface area for more pressure to push down?

    then again... in any situation, there SHOULD be equal or greater pressure pushing the valve back UP, in any lift or slightly pre-close situation, no?.. Ok, never mind

    would still be very interested in the actual specs of the stock springs

    would they be happy at >7000rpm? haha

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by aa87 Click here to enlarge
    Yeah, whatever boost you're running, you have that boost in the cylinder getting compressed. So you have a volume of air compressed at 30 lbs of boost in your combustion chamber getting compressed even further pushing up on a sealed valve.
    Hmm true..

    Having a further search... could have to do with.. on other motors, boost letting the engine breathe higher = higher RPM life = valves that can't deal with it?
    boop

  16. #191
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    I think you are thinking too far into it, bud Click here to enlarge
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  17. #192
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    Typical spring pressures are over 100lbs. Boost isn't gonna cause em to hang open. The benefit in upgraded springs would be for higher rpms or more agressive can profiles. 30psi is not gonna hang a valve open.

  18. #193
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by turbodan Click here to enlarge
    Typical spring pressures are over 100lbs. Boost isn't gonna cause em to hang open. The benefit in upgraded springs would be for higher rpms or more agressive can profiles. 30psi is not gonna hang a valve open.
    But what if I push the accelerator REALLY hard? Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge
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  19. #194
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by turbodan Click here to enlarge
    Typical spring pressures are over 100lbs. Boost isn't gonna cause em to hang open. The benefit in upgraded springs would be for higher rpms or more aggressive can profiles. 30psi is not gonna hang a valve open.
    without the whole pushing back on the other side part though.. say the spring was 100lb, the pressure pushing it down was 30.. it would take longer to return than if the pressure was zero no?

    though with the pressure being equal both sides, it's moot haha

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by klipseracer Click here to enlarge
    But what if I push the accelerator REALLY hard?
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by klipseracer Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge


    +1 - raising important points


    the reason i was confused on the issue was from reading discussions on ls/other motor forums years ago, in brief haha
    boop

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    Short answer. No it would not take longer. The valve is following a cam lobe and not just slamming shut. As long as there is enough pressure to stay in contact with the lobe your good.
    Rpm is the limiting factor. Mor rpm means more pressure is required to follow or stay in contact with the cam lobe.

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    Well, my intentions are absolutely to raise redline to ~7300 RPM to start on stock motor as soon as tuning/trans tuning allows. I'm trying to figure out if a minor build would be worth it for what my goals are and what would be needed for some added RPM's or just to wait and see what stock motor does and do an all out build later.

    For a goal of 750+whp and redline of ~7300 RPM or a bit more was thinking....

    Pistons
    Rods
    Head studs
    Main studs
    Valve springs
    Not sure if valves themselves necessary or not, but that's what I was thinking, and maybe a mild street port job on the heads as well.

    Any thoughts Alex? I know I had messaged you before, but I have more precise goals in mind now and have learned much more since.
    2009 335i coupe back to stock...for now

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  22. #197
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    Valves would be something I would do, just on the fact they are quality one piece- and inconel exhaust valves can take some serious abuse.

    It's all up to you bud Click here to enlarge
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  23. #198
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    I never quite understood why people want their engines to revv to unholy hell. What does it matter if you can rev to 40k rpm if you stop making power at 6500? Before you go lightin those $100 bills on fire id take a good look at other people in that power ranges dyno graphs and see where peak power starts to decline. Revving more than 500-750 rpm past power drop off is pointless.

  24. #199
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by turbodan Click here to enlarge
    What does it matter if you can rev to 40k rpm if you stop making power at 6500?
    Because if you can rev to 40k rpm with a flat torque curve... well.

    Some cams may go a long way here.

  25. #200
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by turbodan Click here to enlarge
    Short answer. No it would not take longer. The valve is following a cam lobe and not just slamming shut. As long as there is enough pressure to stay in contact with the lobe your good.
    Rpm is the limiting factor. Mor rpm means more pressure is required to follow or stay in contact with the cam lobe.
    ahhh yep that makes sense, thanks. forgot about that haha.

    and if you're not coming into contact with the lobe, it's already a problem anyway.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by turbodan Click here to enlarge
    I never quite understood why people want their engines to revv to unholy hell. What does it matter if you can rev to 40k rpm if you stop making power at 6500? Before you go lightin those $100 bills on fire id take a good look at other people in that power ranges dyno graphs and see where peak power starts to decline. Revving more than 500-750 rpm past power drop off is pointless.
    i'd assume that most people talking about it are going larger twins or single turbo builds that CAN breathe well past 7k.

    every single/big twin dyno i've seen has made power and torque at 7k very solidly.

    and where you rev depends entirely on how sharp your torque dropoff is, and what your gear spacing is like.
    boop

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