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  1. #126
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    It was a very limited release, true special edition M3 that never saw the US shores. Without question, there is a big difference between a normal E46 M3 (even one with an SMG trans) and a CSL
    In weight, suspension, interior, yes.

    It's the EXACT SAME S54 motor. The changes are all external motor changes (airbox, exhaust) and in the tune. It's not some radically different thing.

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  2. #127
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90Company Click here to enlarge
    Wrong and way out of context. Nobody is forgetting anything, except you when you don't read my statements correctly. By fact Ferrari motors are "Fiat Automotive" motors, very good. Fiat is a part of "Fiat Automotive" so yes they are "Fiat Automotive" engines too. NO, Ferrari motors are not built by "Fiat" parent company. I've stated this already...
    It's not out of context at all. It's actually the correct analogy the Maserati motor is a Fiat motor.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90Company Click here to enlarge
    Good question. Why arn't you? It's a simple concept.

    The only person that isn't grasping the facts is you if you don't grasp the fact that Maserati's have Ferrari built motors.
    Um, I have maintained a consistent point regarding sound quality and that where the assembly of Maserati's motor takes place has nothing do do with anything at all. I'm not denying where it is assembled. So what am I not getting exactly?

    What you are not getting is that in a sound quality thread you posted about Maserati saying it is a Ferrari motor. This is supposed to bolster your sound quality claim somehow as if the Maserati is on equal footing in sound as the Ferrari. I keep telling you your premise is mistaken and you aren't getting why.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90Company Click here to enlarge
    What was the point? Did you even comprehend what I wrote? Ferrari motors sound way better than an S65 ever will, and since Maserati's have Ferrari motors, Maserati's sound way better than any S65 M3.
    Hhahaha yep that's your premise. AND IT'S WRONG.

    Do you still not get why? Do you need my help to walk you through it?

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  3. #128
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    Turbos will mute any motor. You'll see what that V8 sounds like with turbos on it. Nothing like an NA V8 straight piped that's for sure. Apples and oranges in terms of engine setup, apples to apples given both are M3s
    Click here to enlarge

  4. #129
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@PTF Click here to enlarge
    You'll see what that V8 sounds like with turbos on it.
    I'll let you know once I see it in person.

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  5. #130
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    In weight, suspension, interior, yes.

    It's the EXACT SAME S54 motor. The changes are all external motor changes (airbox, exhaust) and in the tune. It's not some radically different thing.
    The same could be said for the M3 GTS -- Excluding the minor additional displacement (which could be done for supercharger money), it's still an S65 and it's still just a DCT equipped E92 M3
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  6. #131
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    It's not out of context at all. It's actually the correct analogy the Maserati motor is a Fiat motor.
    Yes Maserati has a motor built by Ferrari, and Ferrari is owned by "Fiat Automotive" therefore all Ferrari motors are "Fiat Automotive" motors. Finally you get it!! Click here to enlarge Proud of you, though it took awhile to sink in. You're making progress.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Um, I have maintained a consistent point regarding sound quality and that where the assembly of Maserati's motor takes place has nothing do do with anything at all. I'm not denying where it is assembled. So what am I not getting exactly?

    What you are not getting is that in a sound quality thread you posted about Maserati saying it is a Ferrari motor. This is supposed to bolster your sound quality claim somehow as if the Maserati is on equal footing in sound as the Ferrari. I keep telling you your premise is mistaken and you aren't getting why.
    LMFAO. That's not even a question you should be asking looking at your previous posts you've made (although you ARE making progress and I'm proud of you). Let me reiterate so we can maybe help it sink in:

    Maserati's motors are built BY Ferrari in Ferrari's plant. Glad you get it, we're making a bunch of progress with this last post you made. What you arn't getting and never have as of yet is the fact that Maserati's sound quality is much better than an S65 ever has been, because Ferrari motors kill the sounds an S65 makes period. I don't think you will ever get it but i'm trying to help you... Equal footing? What a joke. It's a sound comparison thread Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Hhahaha yep that's your premise. AND IT'S WRONG.

    Do you still not get why? Do you need my help to walk you through it?
    Hahahaha the funny thing is your premise is an S65 sounds better than a Ferrari motor WHICH IS WRONG. You have a motor that can't compete with the sound quality of Ferrari's motors ever, period. That's the whole point of the thread anyways right? What sounds better? Do I need to walk you through the order? OK I will:

    M4<S65<<<<<<<<Ferrari Motors

    Period. End of conversation really unless you need to keep denying the truth.

  7. #132
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    The same could be said for the M3 GTS -- Excluding the minor additional displacement (which could be done for supercharger money), it's still an S65 and it's still just a DCT equipped E92 M3
    The same can't be said for the M3 GTS because it has significant internal changes.

    You can turn your E46 M3 into a CSL without going inside the motor.

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  8. #133
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90Company Click here to enlarge
    Yes Maserati has a motor built by Ferrari, and Ferrari is owned by "Fiat Automotive" therefore all Ferrari motors are "Fiat Automotive" motors. Finally you get it!! Proud of you, though it took awhile to sink in. You're making progress.
    I never claimed otherwise. I claimed this has nothing to do with anything and it still doesn't. You're not making progress.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90Company Click here to enlarge
    Maserati's motors are built BY Ferrari in Ferrari's plant. Glad you get it, we're making a bunch of progress with this last post you made. What you arn't getting and never have as of yet is the fact that Maserati's sound quality is much better than an S65 ever has been, because Ferrari motors kill the sounds an S65 makes period. I don't think you will ever get it but i'm trying to help you... Equal footing? What a joke. It's a sound comparison thread
    Ok time to make you look stupid. I gave you enough chances.

    Maserati motors are not Ferrari motors. With the F430 Ferrari used the Maserati block. Yes, Ferrari motors sound amazing. Do you want to know why? Because they rev to 9k AND HAVE A FLAT-PLANE CRANK.

    Do you know what that is? Here:

    Click here to enlarge

    Get it? The Maserati motors DO NOT HAVE A FLAT-PLANE CRANK. They are cross-plane, just like the S65 V8.

    Do you see why you're so damn stupid for arguing with me now that they are the same thing and that the Maserati motor sounds "better" because the Ferrari motor does? IT ISN'T THE SAME ENGINE DESIGN. WHERE IT'S BUILT DOESN'T MATTER.

    PAY ATTENTION:

    The F430's 483-hp V-8--722cc and 88 horses angrier than the 360's--is part of a new family of V-8 screamers in the Maserati Coupé and Quattroporte. The commonality lies mainly in the block casting, says powertrain director Jean-Jacques His, where the engines share their 90-degree vee and five-main-bearing architecture. Variable intake- and exhaust-valve timing, plus the bore spacing of 104 millimeters, is also found in the Ferrari Enzo's V-12, which descends from the same family. A detuned version of that V-12 will eventually go into the 612 Scaglietti and replacement for the 575M Maranello.

    As in the 360 Modena, this new F430 is the only Ferrari or Maserati to use a flat-plane crankshaft. That means half of its connecting-rod journals line up directly opposite the other half, making the crank look as flat as a dash mark when viewed head-on. Most V-8s, including Maserati's own version of the motor, have a two-plane crank that looks like an X and spaces the rod journals at 90-degree intervals for smoothness. Ferrari says the flat way, which mimics two inline fours joined at the hip, increases vibration but pays benefits in breathing and power production. It also grinds a particular edge into the Ferrari's bark at high revs.
    While production V8 engines use four crank throws spaced 90° apart, high-performance V8 engines often use a "flat" crankshaft with throws spaced 180° apart. The difference can be heard as the flat-plane crankshafts result in the engine having a smoother, higher-pitched sound than cross-plane (for example, IRL IndyCar Series compared to NASCAR Sprint Cup Series, or a Ferrari 355 compared to a Chevrolet Corvette).
    So that awesome Ferrari sound? It doesn't apply to the Maserati. It doesn't matter where it's built. It doesn't matter if the Ferrari CEO tattoos Maserati on his buttocks it is completely irrelevant to the point.

    So your entire premise is mistaken, this point never clicked for you, and you have been proven completely wrong. I led you to water, couldn't make you drink. Why you would argue with me for pages while holding a false premise when I kept telling you the reason why you were wrong I have no clue. Now take that laughing face smiley and apply it to yourself. You're beyond wrong, you look like a fool.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90Company Click here to enlarge
    End of conversation really
    Sure is.

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  9. #134
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I never claimed otherwise. I claimed this has nothing to do with anything and it still doesn't. You're not making progress.
    I'm not the one that needs to make progress. You're just making yourself look more and more like a baseless fool with these posts. I thought you were making progress, but apparently not so lets start over YET AGAIN:

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Ok time to make you look stupid. I gave you enough chances.

    Maserati motors are not Ferrari motors.
    You arn't making anyone look stupid except yourself when you agree Ferrari motors are "Fiat Automotive" motors in one post yet you say something completely different and wrong here, so which is it? Get your story straight and stop jumping around with what you think is fact and what isn't. That's whats pathetic and stupid here. That's it.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    With the F430 Ferrari used the Maserati block. Yes, Ferrari motors sound amazing. Do you want to know why? Because they rev to 9k AND HAVE A FLAT-PLANE CRANK.

    Do you know what that is? Here:

    Get it? The Maserati motors DO NOT HAVE A FLAT-PLANE CRANK. They are cross-plane, just like the S65 V8.

    Do you see why you're so damn stupid for arguing with me now that they are the same thing and that the Maserati motor sounds "better" because the Ferrari motor does. IT ISN'T THE SAME ENGINE DESIGN. WHERE IT'S BUILT DOESN'T MATTER.
    What are you saying right now? I don't care about the similarities between the Quattroporte motor and F430 motor because THAT'S NOT WHAT WE ARE COMPARING OR TALKING ABOUT, AT ALL. Are you seriously this dense? I've repeated it so many times I can't even count the posts up and you still don't get it?. "Maserati motors are built by Ferrari in Ferrari's plant." I can care less about what motor has a flat plane crank because it dousn't matter in this context at all. I am proud of you for finally attempting to use some fact to back your posts up but you failed here.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    So that awesome Ferrari sound? It doesn't apply to the Maserati. It doesn't matter where it's built.

    So your entire premise is mistaken, this point never clicked for you, and you have been proven completely wrong. I led you to water, couldn't make you drink. Why you would argue with me for pages while holding a false premise when I kept telling you the reason why you were wrong I have no clue. Now take that laughing face smiley and apply it to yourself. You're beyond wrong, you look like a fool.
    Like I said I am proud of you. Finally at least attempting to use fact to prove your points rather than asking hypotheticals to get away from the facts. Anyhow I guess we have to go through this yet again. READ THE ABOVE we were never comparing different Ferrari motors with each other and you completely missed the point. The motors Ferrari builds for Maserati have an awesome sound because they are Ferrari motors that sound way better than an S65. It never clicked for you. I don't think it ever will. Also look up the definition of premise and fact because you are sadly mistaken by a large margin.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Sure is.
    Glad you agree. So you don't need to reply any further. End of conversation.

  10. #135
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90Company Click here to enlarge
    I'm not the one that needs to make progress. You're just making yourself look more and more like a baseless fool with these posts. I thought you were making progress, but apparently not so lets start over YET AGAIN:



    You arn't making anyone look stupid except yourself when you agree Ferrari motors are "Fiat Automotive" motors in one post yet you say something completely different and wrong here, so which is it? Get your story straight and stop jumping around with what you think is fact and what isn't. That's whats pathetic and stupid here. That's it.



    What are you saying right now? I don't care about the similarities between the Quattroporte motor and F430 motor because THAT'S NOT WHAT WE ARE COMPARING OR TALKING ABOUT, AT ALL. Are you seriously this dense? I've repeated it so many times I can't even count the posts up and you still don't get it?. "Maserati motors are built by Ferrari in Ferrari's plant." I can care less about what motor has a flat plane crank because it dousn't matter in this context at all. I am proud of you for finally attempting to use some fact to back your posts up but you failed here.



    Like I said I am proud of you. Finally at least attempting to use fact to prove your points rather than asking hypotheticals to get away from the facts. Anyhow I guess we have to go through this yet again. READ THE ABOVE we were never comparing different Ferrari motors with each other and you completely missed the point. The motors Ferrari builds for Maserati have an awesome sound because they are Ferrari motors that sound way better than an S65. It never clicked for you. I don't think it ever will. Also look up the definition of premise and fact because you are sadly mistaken by a large margin.



    Glad you agree. So you don't need to reply any further. End of conversation.
    You would gain more sympathy and respect by simply manning up, admitting your mistake, and moving on. It's ok. I realize it's the harder thing to do but not everyone can do it.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90Company
    Ferrari motors sound way better than an S65 ever will, and since Maserati's have Ferrari motors, Maserati's sound way better than any S65 M3.
    Quote of the year so far? Maybe.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    You would gain more sympathy and respect by simply manning up, admitting your mistake, and moving on. It's ok. I realize it's the harder thing to do but not everyone can do it.
    It's not a mistake by any means but I'm glad we are done here. Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Quote of the year so far? Maybe.
    Could be. It's true Click here to enlarge

  14. #139
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90Company Click here to enlarge
    It's not a mistake by any means but I'm glad we are done here. Click here to enlarge
    This is not a mistake?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90Company
    Ferrari motors sound way better than an S65 ever will, and since Maserati's have Ferrari motors, Maserati's sound way better than any S65 M3.
    You sure? Here's another chance to sack up and be a man...

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    E90company:

    Ferrari>M3

    Maserati=Ferrari

    So it must follow that:

    Maserati>M3

    Do you not see your logical fallacy? Really? Do you have a mental disability?

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  16. #141
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90Company Click here to enlarge
    I can care less about what motor has a flat plane crank because it dousn't matter in this context at all.
    You sure about that?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    This is not a mistake?
    Not suprisingly no. In your mind it might be, but what you think and what is fact is way different, and that was made clear awhile ago.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Here's another chance to sack up and be a man...
    Can't agree to the facts? You are wrong and can't agree for whatever reason. Here's another chance to sack up and be a man. To use your words.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Do you not see your logical fallacy? Really? Do you have a mental disability?
    Funny how you put together facts in a skewed way. It's comical really. Keep going. You said you were done but it's clear you arn't. I'm waiting for some more of your posts to laugh at. Maybe you will give yourself a mental disability at the end of it all.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90Company Click here to enlarge
    Not suprisingly no. In your mind it might be, but what you think and what is fact is way different, and that was made clear awhile ago.
    YOU JUST WROTE THIS:

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90Company
    Ferrari motors sound way better than an S65 ever will, and since Maserati's have Ferrari motors, Maserati's sound way better than any S65 M3.
    YOU LITERALLY JUST SAID THAT.

    Holy crap man.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90Company Click here to enlarge
    I'm waiting for some more of your posts to laugh at. Maybe you will give yourself a mental disability at the end of it all.
    I normally would be laughing at you for all your posts page after page alluding to the sound of the Maserati motor being better because the Ferrari sounds better without ever realizing it's the Ferrari's crank that gives it that great sound quality but now it's just kind of sad. I'm starting to feel sorry for you.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    YOU JUST WROTE THIS:

    YOU LITERALLY JUST SAID THAT.
    Yes I did.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I normally would be laughing at you for all your posts page after page alluding to the sound of the Maserati motor being better because the Ferrari sounds better without ever realizing it's the Ferrari's crank that gives it that great sound quality but now it's just kind of sad. I'm starting to feel sorry for you.
    This is endless so I'm done. We've gone back and forth long enough. Click here to enlarge

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    I suppose that's as close as you'll get to simply saying you were wrong.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I suppose that's as close as you'll get to simply saying you were wrong.
    Not wrong. Work tomorrow. No more time for this.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90Company Click here to enlarge
    Not wrong. Work tomorrow. No more time for this.
    When you have time let me know how you're right. If key members from OJ's legal team were still alive I would have advised contacting them to help...

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    it may not sound good from factory (or at least in this video)

    but it will properly opened up Click here to enlarge

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Sounds pretty good here.

    ​#Chuckstrong

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    ^ That's the best it's sounded so far.

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