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  1. #1
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    Open Flash OTS Boost 18 psi STOCK HARDWARE?

    So people on e90post are drooling over the numbers made on stock hardware. The numbers are impressive but they are running 18 psi which to me seems very aggressive on stock hardware. Of course we would need to see logs to determine how the car is reacting to it but it seems to me that there is a reason that the other tunes are hitting much less boost with stock hardware.

    I have pointed this out on e90post but of course Shiv defended his tune and indirectly bashed Cobb for having a conservative OTS tune.

    Our OTS tune runs 18psi briefly right around 4000rpm (see below). Which means just for a second at a time when WOT on the road. Turbo is efficient at that rpm/airflow and intake temps are low. Much above and below that engine speed, its in the 13-14psi range. At 6700rpm, its down to 12psi Definitely seems to be a few who are making excuses for underperforming tunes. Perhaps their efforts should be on making their tune work better and not on suggesting a well performing tune is unsafe and should be brought down to their level for some perceived safety reason. I encourage those who believe this to drive both tunes. The biggest difference, IMHO, is not even power. But rather drivability and response to throttle (immediate and consistent vs delayed and irregular). There is a reason for this and if people can focus on things constructively instead of destructively, perhaps it will benefit them and the community as a whole
    Click here to enlarge
    PTF Tuned Cobb Stage 2+ | H&R / Koni Sport | BBS LM

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    He will always spin things in his favour. Its ridiculous to run 18psi on a stock car and especially pump octane. He's just using it for marketing his new pet project just like any other in the past trying to make it into something bigger than it is. Its just Shiv being himself, meh..

    Although, that's a VERY funny comment about 18psi at 4k rpm...take that car on Autobahn put it into 4th-5th-6th and see how long it stays in that 4k rpm range lol he clearly doesn't realize there are reasons why that boost needs to be capped lower on stock cars that run outside his neighbourhood

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@PTF Click here to enlarge
    He will always spin things in his favour. Its ridiculous to run 18psi on a stock car and especially pump octane.
    I assume it will lower the life of the turbos?

    What happened to your sig?

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    funny thing is shiv was the first to bash the big low end boost targets when Cobb first came out with their stage 2 maps.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge
    funny thing is shiv was the first to bash the big low end boost targets when Cobb first came out with their stage 2 maps.
    First to bash, NLS, and 2 step as uneeded then adopt as his own, first to bash flash tuning, then offers back end flash as his own. Now this. See any pattern emerging. Shiv is fun to drink with, but he just pretends to be the king of everything while really just waiting for other people to make progress and adopt it as his own.

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    You can get a few pulls in at 18 or 19 PSI but you won't be able to keep it up as temps rise everywhere.
    LEMANS BLUE M-TECH E92->PROCEDE REV3::ETS 7" FMIC::RACELAND DPS::WAVETRAC DIFF::DEFIV DIFF LOCKDOWN::DEFIV OCC::DEFIV INTAKE::RB PCV

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    0 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    No, 18psi is not high, because it's the engine speed that matters. Here are some calculations that I have done using the stock turbo compressor maps, using the equations from the Garret turbo guides. This represents the maximum boost safe for the stock turbos at various RPMs. As you can see, there is no problem running 18psi at 4000RPM. The problems come upper in the RPM range, and up there every tuner (minus GIAC Stage 2 - from my logs - and probably Dinan) runs way higher boost than what is safe for the stock turbos.

    Here are the results for an IAT of 40 Celsius (104F) and a pressure drop (intercooler + piping) of 1.5psi:


    RPM PSI HP Nm
    1300 4.00 55 302
    1400 6.50 67 343
    1500 15.80 104 493
    1600 17.50 117 521
    1700 17.60 125 522
    1800 17.70 132 524
    1900 17.80 140 525
    2000 17.80 148 525
    2100 17.90 155 527
    2200 18.00 163 529
    2300 18.10 171 530
    2400 18.20 179 532
    2500 18.30 187 534
    2600 18.40 195 535
    2700 18.50 204 537
    2800 18.50 211 537
    2900 18.60 219 538
    3000 18.80 228 542
    3100 18.90 237 543
    3200 19.00 245 545
    3300 19.10 253 546
    3400 19.20 262 548
    3500 19.30 270 550
    3600 19.40 279 551
    3700 19.30 286 550
    3800 19.20 293 548
    3900 19.10 299 546
    4000 19.00 306 545
    4100 18.90 313 543
    4200 18.70 319 540
    4300 18.60 325 538
    4400 18.50 332 537
    4500 18.40 338 535
    4600 18.10 343 530
    4700 17.70 346 524
    4800 17.30 349 517
    4900 16.90 352 511
    5000 16.50 354 504
    5100 16.20 358 500
    5200 15.80 360 493
    5300 15.50 363 488
    5400 15.10 365 482
    5500 14.80 368 477
    5600 14.50 371 472
    5700 14.10 373 466
    5800 13.60 373 458
    5900 13.00 371 448
    6000 12.40 369 438
    6100 11.90 368 430
    6200 11.30 366 420
    6300 10.80 365 412
    6400 10.20 362 403
    6500 9.70 360 394
    6600 9.10 357 385
    6700 8.60 354 377
    6800 8.20 354 370
    6900 7.70 351 362
    7000 7.20 348 354
    7100 6.80 347 348
    7200 6.40 345 341
    7300 6.00 343 335
    7400 5.60 341 328

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by cstavaru Click here to enlarge
    No, 18psi is not high, because it's the engine speed that matters.
    Why don't the other tuning options hit 18psi on a stock car if it is safe on crap 91? If it was safe why wasn't it done 7 years ago?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Torgus Click here to enlarge
    Why don't the other tuning options hit 18psi on a stock car if it is safe on crap 91? If it was safe why wasn't it done 7 years ago?
    Compressor efficiencty doesnt take octane into account. They are saying 18psi is within the efficiency of the compressor, meaning the hardware can support 18psi at 4k rpm, but the motor may need additional octane to keep it happy with that much air. Little to no timing and 18psi should be ok, i dont necassarily see anything wrong with Shivs flash, but its what i would consider to be "damn aggressive" for 91 octane. Its a ballsy move considering not all engines are created equal, but luckily the DME protects itself fairly well.
    2011 E90 M3 \ Melbourne Rot Metallic

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by cstavaru Click here to enlarge
    No, 18psi is not high, because it's the engine speed that matters. Here are some calculations that I have done using the stock turbo compressor maps, using the equations from the Garret turbo guides. This represents the maximum boost safe for the stock turbos at various RPMs. As you can see, there is no problem running 18psi at 4000RPM. The problems come upper in the RPM range, and up there every tuner (minus GIAC Stage 2 - from my logs - and probably Dinan) runs way higher boost than what is safe for the stock turbos.

    Here are the results for an IAT of 40 Celsius (104F) and a pressure drop (intercooler + piping) of 1.5psi:


    RPM PSI HP Nm
    1300 4.00 55 302
    1400 6.50 67 343
    1500 15.80 104 493
    1600 17.50 117 521
    1700 17.60 125 522
    1800 17.70 132 524
    1900 17.80 140 525
    2000 17.80 148 525
    2100 17.90 155 527
    2200 18.00 163 529
    2300 18.10 171 530
    2400 18.20 179 532
    2500 18.30 187 534
    2600 18.40 195 535
    2700 18.50 204 537
    2800 18.50 211 537
    2900 18.60 219 538
    3000 18.80 228 542
    3100 18.90 237 543
    3200 19.00 245 545
    3300 19.10 253 546
    3400 19.20 262 548
    3500 19.30 270 550
    3600 19.40 279 551
    3700 19.30 286 550
    3800 19.20 293 548
    3900 19.10 299 546
    4000 19.00 306 545
    4100 18.90 313 543
    4200 18.70 319 540
    4300 18.60 325 538
    4400 18.50 332 537
    4500 18.40 338 535
    4600 18.10 343 530
    4700 17.70 346 524
    4800 17.30 349 517
    4900 16.90 352 511
    5000 16.50 354 504
    5100 16.20 358 500
    5200 15.80 360 493
    5300 15.50 363 488
    5400 15.10 365 482
    5500 14.80 368 477
    5600 14.50 371 472
    5700 14.10 373 466
    5800 13.60 373 458
    5900 13.00 371 448
    6000 12.40 369 438
    6100 11.90 368 430
    6200 11.30 366 420
    6300 10.80 365 412
    6400 10.20 362 403
    6500 9.70 360 394
    6600 9.10 357 385
    6700 8.60 354 377
    6800 8.20 354 370
    6900 7.70 351 362
    7000 7.20 348 354
    7100 6.80 347 348
    7200 6.40 345 341
    7300 6.00 343 335
    7400 5.60 341 328
    Keep in mind those Garrett Guides are extremely conservative. You can normally get away with running a little higher then stated without issue. But any manufacture has to err on the side of safety.

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    not so long ago we was using 18psi on stock turbos against COBB. what a douche
    SOLD --'07 E90 335i, PTF COBB E50, HFS4, ER CP, ETS 7", AA DP, Vishnu Exhaust, DCI, ACT, Nitto Nt555

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by marv85 Click here to enlarge
    not so long ago we was using 18psi on stock turbos against COBB. what a douche
    Its not the fact that he is doing this. It is the fact that no one E90 remembers, and just listens like he invented something new. Can someone find those posts and copy and paste here. I want to make on post with them on the other site and see what he says.

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    2 out of 3 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Why?


    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    Its not the fact that he is doing this. It is the fact that no one E90 remembers, and just listens like he invented something new. Can someone find those posts and copy and paste here. I want to make on post with them on the other site and see what he says.

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    0 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Torgus Click here to enlarge
    Why don't the other tuning options hit 18psi on a stock car if it is safe on crap 91? If it was safe why wasn't it done 7 years ago?
    lol 7 years ago people thought 12-14psi was too much. you can't be serious, right?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    Keep in mind those Garrett Guides are extremely conservative. You can normally get away with running a little higher then stated without issue. But any manufacture has to err on the side of safety.
    + 1

    garrett compressor maps are distributed by garrett, who makes the turbochargers. obviously, they have a vested interest in keeping things conservative (to avoid warranty claims, etc).

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    Its not the fact that he is doing this. It is the fact that no one E90 remembers, and just listens like he invented something new. Can someone find those posts and copy and paste here. I want to make on post with them on the other site and see what he says.
    lol

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    3 out of 3 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    How come Shiv is never on this forum? I'm still pretty fresh to the n54, or even bimmer scene, but didn't take long to realize here and n54tech seem to easily be most informative and well managed...Oh, did I mention knowledgeable posters too?
    2009 335i coupe back to stock...for now

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mjmarovi Click here to enlarge
    How come Shiv is never on this forum? I'm still pretty fresh to the n54, or even bimmer scene, but didn't take long to realize here and n54tech seem to easily be most informative and well managed...Oh, did I mention knowledgeable posters too?
    Guest vendors can only post once per day, so he pops in every once in awhile. E90post is good for 2 things only - classifieds and regional forums.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lulz_m3 Click here to enlarge
    Guest vendors can only post once per day, so he pops in every once in awhile. E90post is good for 2 things only - classifieds and regional forums.
    Yep.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bryce Click here to enlarge
    lol
    Bryce is back!
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    After receiving a bunch of shivfractions I tend to stay in regionals as well.

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    Just check his map detail vs. the Cobb OTS map details. At first glance they are not very different, lol. Not different enough to bother fighting over. Anyone using either solution can easily make the mapping changes to match the other solution.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bryce Click here to enlarge
    lol 7 years ago people thought 12-14psi was too much. you can't be serious, right?
    so what did they think 3 years ago? or 2 or 1? just 3 days ago 18psi became fine to on a stock car on 91 octane?

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    1 out of 2 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Torgus Click here to enlarge
    so what did they think 3 years ago? or 2 or 1? just 3 days ago 18psi became fine to on a stock car on 91 octane?
    when the cobb maps first came out, the boost occilations were pretty bad and some members reported hitting 17+ psi in the low-midrange. that was circa 2011 i believe. any more questions?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by nafoo Click here to enlarge
    Bryce is back!
    thanks for the neg rep :thumbsup:

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