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    Siemens Sensor used in Procede FlexFuel

    Hello, can anyone with the Procede flexfuel kit let us know the part number from the Siemens sensor they're using?
    LEMANS BLUE M-TECH E92->PROCEDE REV3::ETS 7" FMIC::RACELAND DPS::WAVETRAC DIFF::DEFIV DIFF LOCKDOWN::DEFIV OCC::DEFIV INTAKE::RB PCV

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    Looks like P/N is 12570260 can anyone confirm?
    LEMANS BLUE M-TECH E92->PROCEDE REV3::ETS 7" FMIC::RACELAND DPS::WAVETRAC DIFF::DEFIV DIFF LOCKDOWN::DEFIV OCC::DEFIV INTAKE::RB PCV

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    Here ya go.



    12570260 Flex fuel Sensor Technical Specification:

    Measuring range: 0…100% Alcohol (ethanol) in fuel mixtures
    Sensor Accuracy: 5% of the mixture ratio
    Output characteristic: Linear
    Operating temperature: Environment -40°C… +125°C, Fuel -40°C… +90°C
    Maximum fuel pressure: 10 bar, (145 psi)
    Maximum pressure drop: 0.1 bar, (1.45 psi)
    Maximum flow: 200 l/h
    Supply voltage: 6…18 Volts DC
    Sensor Temperature error: < 1.5%
    Response time: < 250 ms after power on at any temperature
    Design: Suitable for the installation in motor vehicles, independent of position. Housing is waterproof. Flex fuel sensor Dimensions are given below.


    Vehicles with GM 12570260 flex fuel sensors compatible with the Zeitronix Ethanol Content Analyzer:

    Trucks with an E85 Flex-Fuel Option:
    2000-2002 GM 2.2L Chevy S-10 2WD pickups
    2000-2002 GMC 2.2L Sonoma 2WD pickups
    2000-2002 ISUZU 2.2L Hombre pickup
    2000-2005 GMC 5.3L V-8 Sierra half-ton pickups 2WD & 4WD
    2000-2005 GMC 5.3L V-8 Silverado pickups
    2003 Chevrolet 5.3L Avalanche 4-door pickups
    2004-2005 Dodge 4.7L Ram 1500 series
    2005 GMC 5.3L (Vortec) Avalanche
    2005 Nissan 5.6L V8 DOHC
    Minivans with an E85 Flex-Fuel Option:
    1998-2003 Chrysler 3.3L Town & Country minivans
    1998-2003 Plymouth/Chrysler Voyager minivans, 3.3L
    1998-2005 Dodge 3.3L Caravan & Grand Caravan SE minivans
    2003 Dodge 3.3L Cargo minivans (all)
    Passenger Cars with an E85 Flex-Fuel Option:
    2003-2004 Chrysler 2.7L Stratus sedans (all)
    2003-2005 Chrysler 2.7L Sebring sedans (all)
    2003-2005 Mercedes 3.2L C320 sport sedan and wagon
    2005 Mercedes 2.6L C240 sedan and wagon (all)
    Sports Utility Vehicles with an E85 Flex-Fuel Option:
    2002-2005 GM 5.3L (vortec) Suburban SUVs (all)
    2002-2005 GM 5.3L (vortec) Tahoe SUVs (all)
    Fleet 2005 GM 5.3L (vortec) Tahoe police package
    2002 GM 5.3L (vortec) Denalis (all)
    2002-2005 GM 5.3L (vortec) Yukon & Yukon XL SUVs (all)

    Where is the sensor located?
    The sensor is mounted as part of the fuel line. Below is a partial list of vehicles and locations to find the sensor.
    2000 - 2002 Chevy S-10 2.2L Passenger side, front frame rail, behind wheel well
    2000 - 2002 GMC Sonoma 2.2L Passenger side, front frame rail, behind wheel well
    2003 Chevy S-10 2.2L Passenger side, front frame rail, behind wheel well
    2003 GMC Sonoma 2.2L Passenger side, front frame rail, behind wheel well
    2002 - 2005 Chevy (Trucks, Suburban, Tahoe) 5.3L Mounted to frame directly under driver’s feet
    2002 - 2005 GMC (Trucks, Yukon, Tahoe) 5.3L Mounted to frame directly under driver’s feet

    2011 E90 M3 \ Melbourne Rot Metallic

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    Rep to you two, so damn helpful.

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    Open-Flash[ or COBB, or open source ] + This sensor and a length of tube = ProcedeFlex Fuel + Flash.

    400$ for the tablet, 300$ for the sensor.
    LEMANS BLUE M-TECH E92->PROCEDE REV3::ETS 7" FMIC::RACELAND DPS::WAVETRAC DIFF::DEFIV DIFF LOCKDOWN::DEFIV OCC::DEFIV INTAKE::RB PCV

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    What reads to output of the sensor if you use a flash tune only?
    Eppur si muove.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ajm8127 Click here to enlarge
    What reads to output of the sensor if you use a flash tune only?
    Obviously you'd need a procede.

    Terry has e85 support in his JB for n55. Why not bother him to support this sensor?

    ** I've heard interesting things about COBB playing with aux I/O... :?
    LEMANS BLUE M-TECH E92->PROCEDE REV3::ETS 7" FMIC::RACELAND DPS::WAVETRAC DIFF::DEFIV DIFF LOCKDOWN::DEFIV OCC::DEFIV INTAKE::RB PCV

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by uniter Click here to enlarge
    Obviously you'd need a procede.

    Terry has e85 support in his JB for n55. Why not bother him to support this sensor?
    Ok, I didn't understand you were saying you'd need a piggyback too. @Terry@BMS should definitely support this sensor.

    If Cobb could figure out a way to add a couple analog input channels to the DME, that would be amazing. Analog output would be equally as sweet.
    Eppur si muove.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by uniter Click here to enlarge
    Open-Flash[ or COBB, or open source ] + This sensor and a length of tube = ProcedeFlex Fuel + Flash.

    400$ for the tablet, 300$ for the sensor.
    In theory anyone can add this sensor right?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    In theory anyone can add this sensor right?
    Thats the idea. The other guys just have to add support, JB or ????
    LEMANS BLUE M-TECH E92->PROCEDE REV3::ETS 7" FMIC::RACELAND DPS::WAVETRAC DIFF::DEFIV DIFF LOCKDOWN::DEFIV OCC::DEFIV INTAKE::RB PCV

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    I thought about running the zeitronix ethanol analyzer, just to be sure the Ethanol % was strong enough for my level of tune. It can be mounted in the glovebox to show you realtime % Ethanol, but E85 isnt common enough around here for me to justify the purchase. I'm addicted to meth anyways...
    2011 E90 M3 \ Melbourne Rot Metallic

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    The best solution is still be able to run 100% E85 but were still dreaming at this point.

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    For our tuning needs I personally think flex fuel sensors provide mostly redundant information. You'll get close enough data from your historic timing and fuel trims. The premise that if your ethanol content is a certain percentage then you can then safely run a specific amount of boost & timing itself is inherently flawed. Many factors beyond ethanol content contribute to that. And the more turbo limited the application the less critical the data is. I'd say it's completely useless for the N55 engine. For the N54 stock turbo it's interesting but I would not bother with the cost & hassle of installing it personally. If you are trying to support 600-700rw+ on E85 only (say when better high pressure pumps are released) then maybe it will become a useful piece of data to have floating around.

    PS. The sensor outputs a 50-200hz 5v signal IIRC.
    Burger Motorsports
    Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, N63s, S55s, and S63s!

    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    For our tuning needs I personally think flex fuel sensors provide mostly redundant information. You'll get close enough data from your historic timing and fuel trims. The premise that if your ethanol content is a certain percentage then you can then safely run a specific amount of boost & timing itself is inherently flawed. Many factors beyond ethanol content contribute to that. And the more turbo limited the application the less critical the data is. I'd say it's completely useless for the N55 engine. For the N54 stock turbo it's interesting but I would not bother with the cost & hassle of installing it personally. If you are trying to support 600-700rw+ on E85 only (say when better high pressure pumps are released) then maybe it will become a useful piece of data to have floating around.

    PS. The sensor outputs a 50-200hz 5v signal IIRC.
    Well the convenience comes into play when I run out of fuel and fill up with 93, or I discover a cache of E85 and fill up on it. You suggest that a piggyback can take a stab at what's going on by inspecting timing and fuel trim data. Have you been experimenting with this? Is it quick enough to respond and precise enough to dial in for 'maximum power'?
    LEMANS BLUE M-TECH E92->PROCEDE REV3::ETS 7" FMIC::RACELAND DPS::WAVETRAC DIFF::DEFIV DIFF LOCKDOWN::DEFIV OCC::DEFIV INTAKE::RB PCV

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    IMO the ethanol sensors are interesting information but not useful for tuning. In the early 00's they were necessary I guess for flexfuel, but even modern flexfuel doesn't use ethanol sensors. Modern cars monitor injected fuel and lambda and can in effect analytically determine ethanol content. I mean how much ethanol is in your fuel really makes no difference for our application, our cars target a certain lambda, and as long as your tune is capable of keeping trims in range (biasing O2, fuel pressure, etc), you will hit that lambda and run fine. Timing and boost wise, as Terry said there are better ways to determine a boost and/or timing ceiling with closed loop information from fueling and knock and such than relying on a single sensor that can 1) be inaccurate, 2) fail, 3) not account for other things like octane mixed with, exhaust setup, etc etc.

    I think it's an interesting exercise just to know, but with modern engine management systems it's really a relic to rely on a ethanol sensor, unless it's just one additional data point.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by uniter Click here to enlarge
    Well the convenience comes into play when I run out of fuel and fill up with 93, or I discover a cache of E85 and fill up on it. You suggest that a piggyback can take a stab at what's going on by inspecting timing and fuel trim data. Have you been experimenting with this? Is it quick enough to respond and precise enough to dial in for 'maximum power'?
    The software strategies work really well within a range of E85. But with huge swings like going from straight E85 to straight pump, which you will know ahead of time, best practice is to reset the learning algorithm to pump gas levels. It's safer In theory anyway learning up rather than learning down.
    Burger Motorsports
    Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, N63s, S55s, and S63s!

    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    The software strategies work really well within a range of E85. But with huge swings like going from straight E85 to straight pump, which you will know ahead of time, best practice is to reset the learning algorithm to pump gas levels. It's safer In theory anyway learning up rather than learning down.
    So does the JB support this type of operation now?
    LEMANS BLUE M-TECH E92->PROCEDE REV3::ETS 7" FMIC::RACELAND DPS::WAVETRAC DIFF::DEFIV DIFF LOCKDOWN::DEFIV OCC::DEFIV INTAKE::RB PCV

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by uniter Click here to enlarge
    So does the JB support this type of operation now?
    It has for years.
    Burger Motorsports
    Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, N63s, S55s, and S63s!

    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

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    I currently have the Siemens sensor installed. It is certainly nice being able to instantly change between a tank of E85 and all 91/93, without worrying about any sort of algorithm.

    I don't think the 00's style of Flex Fuel sensors are completely out of style, though. Koenigsegg's Agera R employs a similar type of sensor to analyze the fuel going through the lines into the car (about 6 minutes in):



    It would certainly be very interesting seeing a sort of Flex Fuel sensor support on JB4. Then again, I do not truly understand what goes into tuning a car based on E85 content. Are you saying that the JB4 simply detects how the engine behaves with the fuel in it, and adjusts timing automatically based on how rough or smoothly it runs? Excuse my lack of proper terminology or knowledge, as that is what I am trying to gain.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Ferruccio Click here to enlarge
    It would certainly be very interesting seeing a sort of Flex Fuel sensor support on JB4. Then again, I do not truly understand what goes into tuning a car based on E85 content. Are you saying that the JB4 simply detects how the engine behaves with the fuel in it, and adjusts timing automatically based on how rough or smoothly it runs? Excuse my lack of proper terminology or knowledge, as that is what I am trying to gain.
    @Terry@BMS

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