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  1. #51
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    My first look at the Open Flash I8AOS XDF is somewhat surprising. I expected to see a few tables that i had not seen in ATR, when in fact, its the other way around. It looks like there is a few tables that ATR has that Open Flash DOES NOT, and i am not just talking about the different naming conventions. I wonder how much custom software Cobb added? Up to this point, i didnt believe they had changed much, but i am begging to wonder now.

    Hopefully i'll get some time to play with it more tonight, also waiting on some goodies from @Josh@Cobb to play around with Click here to enlarge
    2011 E90 M3 \ Melbourne Rot Metallic

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  2. #52
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Thanks,..Is there a way we can load this up in atr and the cobb app?

  3. #53
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by harry Click here to enlarge
    Thanks,..Is there a way we can load this up in atr and the cobb app?
    No, but you can download the tuner pro software to view the BIN and apply Open Flash XDF files to the BIN and mirror those mapping changes to your Cobb maps using ATR.
    Tuner Pro Download is here http://www.tunerpro.net/download/Set..._v500_8144.exe
    Start at step 5 here http://procedetuning.com/BMW/n54/Ope...-23/index.html
    and you can download the Vishnu OTS Open Flash maps here http://procedetuning.com/BMW/n54/Ope...DF%20Files.zip
    2011 E90 M3 \ Melbourne Rot Metallic

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  4. #54
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by harry Click here to enlarge
    Thanks,..Is there a way we can load this up in atr and the cobb app?
    No the Cobb system works differently. It does not modify your specific DME file. It modifies a universal file and then uploads that.
    Burger Motorsports
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    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

  5. #55
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lulz_m3 Click here to enlarge
    My first look at the Open Flash I8AOS XDF is somewhat surprising. I expected to see a few tables that i had not seen in ATR, when in fact, its the other way around. It looks like there is a few tables that ATR has that Open Flash DOES NOT, and i am not just talking about the different naming conventions. I wonder how much custom software Cobb added? Up to this point, i didnt believe they had changed much, but i am begging to wonder now.

    Hopefully i'll get some time to play with it more tonight, also waiting on some goodies from @Josh@Cobb to play around with
    Working on some FW stuff and getting everything ready for Bimmerfest East. Hopefully I can get you something before the end of the day.
    Josh Dankel
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  6. #56
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rader1 Click here to enlarge
    I'm genuinely not angry. I just HAD to point that out.
    Can't agree more on his many contradictions. We're all guilty of it in one form or another from time to time but he has a long history of making strong and inflammatory assertions only to flop on them later. Ultimately, his behavior has just eroded his credibility to the point that those who have been around long enough just don't take things he says very seriously anymore.

    In his defense I will say it was very generous of him to post the XMLs for modifying the DME BIN. It's a critical step in the "open source" process. RobBINHood seems to have a good solution for reading/writing the BIN and there are other solutions out there, and under development. So this is all good stuff for N54 owners.
    Burger Motorsports
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    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

  7. #57
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Can't agree more on his many contradictions. We're all guilty of it in one form or another from time to time but he has a long history of making strong and inflammatory assertions only to flop on them later. Ultimately, his behavior has just eroded his credibility to the point that those who have been around long enough just don't take things he says very seriously anymore.

    In his defense I will say it was very generous of him to post the XMLs for modifying the DME BIN. It's a critical step in the "open source" process. RobBINHood seems to have a good solution for reading/writing the BIN and there are other solutions out there, and under development. So this is all good stuff for N54 owners.
    Think OpenFlash users will see a map or two from you Terry?

  8. #58
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mave198 Click here to enlarge
    Think OpenFlash users will see a map or two from you Terry?
    It's in our interest to make the JB4 back end flash as accessible as possible to those who want it. I'll definitely post a version in TunerPro as soon as we can. Then you can upload it using the OpenTablet, PG3, Dimsport, the real open source flash cable being developed, etc. But, the XML files Shiv is using do not have the 3D fuel scalar mapping which our back end flash requires to work properly. I took at peek at their back end flash and it's very similar to how we handled it when we started. I'll have to load and log it to know for sure but looking at the tables changed I expect it will suffer from the bad 3-4 and 4-5 automatic timing flatline. No bueno.
    Burger Motorsports
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    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

  9. #59
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    It's in our interest to make the JB4 back end flash as accessible as possible to those who want it. I'll definitely post a version in TunerPro as soon as we can. Then you can upload it using the OpenTablet, PG3, Dimsport, the real open source flash cable being developed, etc. But, the XML files Shiv is using do not have the 3D fuel scalar mapping which our back end flash requires to work properly. I took at peek at their back end flash and it's very similar to how we handled it when we started. I'll have to load and log it to know for sure but looking at the tables changed I expect it will suffer from the bad 3-4 and 4-5 automatic timing flatline. No bueno.
    You didn't see where Shiv was questioning your back end flash map on E90? I chuckled a bit reading his confounded comments about why you would run less boost than stock... I guess he still fails to recognize the timing flatline issue on 6AT's...
    2011 E90 M3 \ Melbourne Rot Metallic

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  10. #60
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    Haha no, but I can only imagine what he thinks of it. Wait until he sees the 1.8 fuel scalar we run on some load cells. Click here to enlarge
    Burger Motorsports
    Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, N63s, S55s, and S63s!

    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

  11. #61
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lulz_m3 Click here to enlarge
    No, but you can download the tuner pro software to view the BIN and apply Open Flash XDF files to the BIN and mirror those mapping changes to your Cobb maps using ATR.
    Tuner Pro Download is here http://www.tunerpro.net/download/Set..._v500_8144.exe
    Start at step 5 here http://procedetuning.com/BMW/n54/Ope...-23/index.html
    and you can download the Vishnu OTS Open Flash maps here http://procedetuning.com/BMW/n54/Ope...DF%20Files.zip
    Thanks, Lulz and Terry for getting me up to speed.

  12. #62
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    Has anyone found anything profoundly different between Openflash OTS and Cobb OTS maps tuning strategies? Obviously there's the boost difference but how about things that affect part throttle, throttle responsiveness, drivability, and quirky timing drops / flatlines. Personally I've been battling over boost / over load induced timing drops and occasional oscillations with Cobb and the seemingly oversensitive DME in my particular car.

    Also I would actually prefer and even more linear throttle (I'm 6MT) than the OTS linear throttle Cobb maps provide. Sometime I feel like the DME is trying to read my mind and interpret how much power i want based on speed, gear, and gas pedal position. Maybe that's just the nature of drive by wire on this platform? Being that I have a manual trans, I really just wish it reacted like cars did before drive by wire became common place (e.g. 50% pedal position = 50% power in all circumstances). I'm by no means an expert and know I still have a lot to learn which is the main reason I'm inquiring. Plus I think my DME is less cooperative than others (IJE0S with unkonwn BMW updates as I'm not the original owner) which probably puts me at a disadvantage.

    I'm not knocking either tuning solution or saying one is better than the other. I haven't tried both and am no position to comment in that regard in the first place nor is that the intent of this post. It looks like they have similar functionality and at the end of the day we're all tuning the same engine and have the same BMW nannies, logic, and torque limitations to overcome. Hopefully we can all improve our tunes regardless of flashing solutions we use. I'd be interested to know if anyone has implemented any Openflash table settings in ATR or vice versa and noticed any improvements in the areas I mentioned.
    2009 335i AT xdrive E90 Sedan
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  13. #63
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mfish Click here to enlarge
    Has anyone found anything profoundly different between Openflash OTS and Cobb OTS maps tuning strategies? Obviously there's the boost difference but how about things that affect part throttle, throttle responsiveness, drivability, and quirky timing drops / flatlines. Personally I've been battling over boost / over load induced timing drops and occasional oscillations with Cobb and the seemingly oversensitive DME in my particular car.

    Also I would actually prefer and even more linear throttle (I'm 6MT) than the OTS linear throttle Cobb maps provide. Sometime I feel like the DME is trying to read my mind and interpret how much power i want based on speed, gear, and gas pedal position. Maybe that's just the nature of drive by wire on this platform? Being that I have a manual trans, I really just wish it reacted like cars did before drive by wire became common place (e.g. 50% pedal position = 50% power in all circumstances). I'm by no means an expert and know I still have a lot to learn which is the main reason I'm inquiring. Plus I think my DME is less cooperative than others (IJE0S with unkonwn BMW updates as I'm not the original owner) which probably puts me at a disadvantage.

    I'm not knocking either tuning solution or saying one is better than the other. I haven't tried both and am no position to comment in that regard in the first place nor is that the intent of this post. It looks like they have similar functionality and at the end of the day we're all tuning the same engine and have the same BMW nannies, logic, and torque limitations to overcome. Hopefully we can all improve our tunes regardless of flashing solutions we use. I'd be interested to know if anyone has implemented any Openflash table settings in ATR or vice versa and noticed any improvements in the areas I mentioned.
    My impressions are quite preliminary, as i flashed this morning and just drove into work without being able to log or really analyze the way the car is performing, but i have a few first impressions.

    I created a hybrid map using my previous self tuned ATR map, and Vishnu's OTS Stage 1 maps WGDC PID tables, and throttle mapping.

    1. The Vishnu throttle mapping is very similar to what i recall stock throttle mapping to be like. I also drive a 6MT, being FBO + Meth plus stock throttle like mapping is not very fun. The car is way to eager to accelerate and ends up being hard to control. I had a hard time keeping the boost under 10psi this morning waiting for the car to warm up vs staying in vacuum when using the Cobb Linear throttle mapping. Auto users will probably enjoy the Vishnu throttle mapping, but i am not a fan.

    2. The Vishnu WGDC mapping seems to be good. I haven't been able to view any logs and really "hammer" on the car to see how it performed, but it didn't oscillate and hit targets as good as my old fine tuned map. My turbos were replaced under factory warranty about 5k miles ago, so i typically overboost easily compared to most "well used" wastegates on the road today. It appears that the Vishnu WGDC base map is ~ Cobb OTS WGDC base map X .85
    2011 E90 M3 \ Melbourne Rot Metallic

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mfish Click here to enlarge
    Has anyone found anything profoundly different between Openflash OTS and Cobb OTS maps tuning strategies? Obviously there's the boost difference but how about things that affect part throttle, throttle responsiveness, drivability, and quirky timing drops / flatlines. Personally I've been battling over boost / over load induced timing drops and occasional oscillations with Cobb and the seemingly oversensitive DME in my particular car.

    Also I would actually prefer and even more linear throttle (I'm 6MT) than the OTS linear throttle Cobb maps provide. Sometime I feel like the DME is trying to read my mind and interpret how much power i want based on speed, gear, and gas pedal position. Maybe that's just the nature of drive by wire on this platform? Being that I have a manual trans, I really just wish it reacted like cars did before drive by wire became common place (e.g. 50% pedal position = 50% power in all circumstances). I'm by no means an expert and know I still have a lot to learn which is the main reason I'm inquiring. Plus I think my DME is less cooperative than others (IJE0S with unkonwn BMW updates as I'm not the original owner) which probably puts me at a disadvantage.

    I'm not knocking either tuning solution or saying one is better than the other. I haven't tried both and am no position to comment in that regard in the first place nor is that the intent of this post. It looks like they have similar functionality and at the end of the day we're all tuning the same engine and have the same BMW nannies, logic, and torque limitations to overcome. Hopefully we can all improve our tunes regardless of flashing solutions we use. I'd be interested to know if anyone has implemented any Openflash table settings in ATR or vice versa and noticed any improvements in the areas I mentioned.
    I also have the over sensitive IJEOS DME as well. I commute with this car and battle the same problems with the throttle. I have the JB4 and unfortunately the car is NOT happy with Cobbs LT throttle maps so I had to go back to the stock throttle mapping. Without the JB4 in place I have severe timing drop outs and my car would flatline to the moon if I let it.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lulz_m3 Click here to enlarge
    My impressions are quite preliminary, as i flashed this morning and just drove into work without being able to log or really analyze the way the car is performing, but i have a few first impressions.

    I created a hybrid map using my previous self tuned ATR map, and Vishnu's OTS Stage 1 maps WGDC PID tables, and throttle mapping.

    1. The Vishnu throttle mapping is very similar to what i recall stock throttle mapping to be like. I also drive a 6MT, being FBO + Meth plus stock throttle like mapping is not very fun. The car is way to eager to accelerate and ends up being hard to control. I had a hard time keeping the boost under 10psi this morning waiting for the car to warm up vs staying in vacuum when using the Cobb Linear throttle mapping. Auto users will probably enjoy the Vishnu throttle mapping, but i am not a fan.

    2. The Vishnu WGDC mapping seems to be good. I haven't been able to view any logs and really "hammer" on the car to see how it performed, but it didn't oscillate and hit targets as good as my old fine tuned map. My turbos were replaced under factory warranty about 5k miles ago, so i typically overboost easily compared to most "well used" wastegates on the road today. It appears that the Vishnu WGDC base map is ~ Cobb OTS WGDC base map X .85
    Thanks for the feedback. For 1 I guess I'll have to play with the throttle / torque request maps myself to see if I can make them even more linear.

    For 2 that's good to know. I've pulled out a good bit of WGDC base myself but seem to think even my turbos with 55K miles on them have stiffer than normal wastegates. I'll try out the Vishnu WGDC to see if it helps with oscillations. They have dynos and experience so probably did a better job that I could ever do logging MARF Req wgdc / boost setpoint. Did you copy over any other boost control tables such as anything related to PID?
    2009 335i AT xdrive E90 Sedan
    OEM 7601492 Trans Flash
    BQ Tuning Custom 93 Octane Tune
    FBO + Inlets and Outlets

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by boosted-M Click here to enlarge
    I also have the over sensitive IJEOS DME as well. I commute with this car and battle the same problems with the throttle. I have the JB4 and unfortunately the car is NOT happy with Cobbs LT throttle maps so I had to go back to the stock throttle mapping. Without the JB4 in place I have severe timing drop outs and my car would flatline to the moon if I let it.
    I feel your pain! I've tried all kinds of stuff playing with the limit tables. I think what I realized is that the timing drops (not flatlines) are mostly induced by actual load exceeding or even approaching actual load too quickly. Obviously load and boost correlate but I think the DME hates "over load" more than overboost. So based on things I've read and a lot of help from Carl Morris, I increased the load request by a good amount to keep req load well above actual load. And then to keep things safe and not over work the turbos I reduced the boost limit multiplier. Boost limit multiplier will cap boost regardless of how high you set the requested load (at least up to 195 requested load in what i've personally tried)

    Unfortunately this only works for WOT and I still sometimes exceed or closely approach requested load at part throttle resulting in timing drops. Pulling out a lot of WGDC in the lower MAF Req WGDC / boost setpoint areas has helped this part throttle stuff but not completely cured it.
    2009 335i AT xdrive E90 Sedan
    OEM 7601492 Trans Flash
    BQ Tuning Custom 93 Octane Tune
    FBO + Inlets and Outlets

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    I seriously doubt this open flash will fix the crappy ijeos dme timing issues and its going to take time for them to go over 18.5 psi as well. Cobb had to recode to go over that.
    07 335i AT - MOTIV 750 - MHD BMS E85 - BMS PI - JB4G5 - Okada Coils - NGK 5992 Plugs - Helix IC - Stett CP - Custom midpipes with 100 HJS Cats - Bastuck Quad - PSS10 - QUAIFE LSD - BMS OCC - Forge DVs - AR OC - ALCON BBK - M3 Chassi - Dinan CP - Velocity M rear Toe arms - Advan RZ-DF - LUX H8 - Level 10 AT upgrade
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mfish Click here to enlarge
    Has anyone found anything profoundly different between Openflash OTS and Cobb OTS maps tuning strategies? Obviously there's the boost difference but how about things that affect part throttle, throttle responsiveness, drivability, and quirky timing drops / flatlines.

    I seriously doubt that any tune for the open flash tablet will rival that of what COBB puts out. COBB does what they do because they are paid to do it. Shiv is giving people a baseline without all the fine tuning cobb has done, nor will it likely ever be that way, and he will plop an etune on top of it that looks nice on a dyno.

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    hmm weirdly terrys flatlining fix works better on my IJE0S car than others. there are things I dislike about the setup but its as close as im going to get to a properly runnung car for now.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by enrita Click here to enlarge
    I seriously doubt this open flash will fix the crappy ijeos dme timing issues and its going to take time for them to go over 18.5 psi as well. Cobb had to recode to go over that.
    Have you tried your MSD 80 to see if it makes a difference?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge
    hmm weirdly terrys flatlining fix works better on my IJE0S car than others. there are things I dislike about the setup but its as close as im going to get to a properly runnung car for now.
    Some day we'll get the right tables we need to do it right. Until then, it's the best compromise I've been able to find. On the flashing, I hear good progress is being made on a free solution. Click here to enlarge
    Burger Motorsports
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    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Some day we'll get the right tables we need to do it right. Until then, it's the best compromise I've been able to find. On the flashing, I hear good progress is being made on a free solution. Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by klipseracer Click here to enlarge
    I seriously doubt that any tune for the open flash tablet will rival that of what COBB puts out. COBB does what they do because they are paid to do it. Shiv is giving people a baseline without all the fine tuning cobb has done, nor will it likely ever be that way, and he will plop an etune on top of it that looks nice on a dyno.
    have you ever driven a Cobb OTS map? I thought you sold your e90 before Cobb was released.

    Ive driven both the Cobb and the openflash maps, and I have to say hands down the OF maps are more aggressive with better boost response. No comparison actually.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bryce Click here to enlarge
    have you ever driven a Cobb OTS map? I thought you sold your e90 before Cobb was released.

    Ive driven both the Cobb and the openflash maps, and I have to say hands down the OF maps are more aggressive with better boost response. No comparison actually.
    the question is when are we ever going to see a datalog....

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge
    the question is when are we ever going to see a datalog....
    Agreed. I think it will be interesting to compare. I hope data logging comes ASAP, but rombinhood has gone quiet about it on e90

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