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  1. #251
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Eleventeen Click here to enlarge
    In the current configuration, the solenoid is normally open. That means the default state would be full boost if connected to the top port. However, the way you have suggested is how the Mac valve would typically be connected.
    I inverted the signal for fun just to see if it would work but the the fact that it doesn't bleed the wastegate port down to 0psi was the fatal flaw. As a bottom mount though it works fine up to 19psi. And that can be extended using a bleeder as you are. When the MAC curves are done I'll forward them over and you can try it out.
    Burger Motorsports
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    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

  2. #252
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    So the MAC valve doesn't have this limitation and lets the wastegate port bleed down to 0psi. Thus can be used as a top or bottom port. I don't yet fully understand why one setup is preferred to the other but FFTEC suggests a top port so I started with that. So far so good. Russell @ BMS is working up FF algorithms now for it. Click here to enlarge
    Thanks for the awesome explanation, gave me a much better understanding of what's going on. Sounds like once you have the mac valve up and running that you'll basically have the single turbo control figured out. I think the reason a top port wastegate setup is preferred is because it allows you to run a much lower pressure wastegate spring without the wastegate cracking open when boost builds. Plus that would probably allow more factorly like part throttle boost control than a bottom port as a result.

  3. #253
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    Wooo Hooo!! You've got it now Terry!

    The reason top port is ideal, as opposed to preffered is because it can net higher than average Boost control vs. traditional EBC bottom port control with the external gate.

    Top Port can go 4x the spring pressure, while bottom port can go 2x.

    With a top port config, we are utilizing Boost Pressure + spring pressure to over come exhasut back pressure, forcing the gate closed even as BP rises.

    With bottom port only, the gate will blow open as BP rises. Without being able to correct for this, we can only run what the spring will allow. If we run 100% DC in this config, the gate will never see any boost reference, but will eventually be overcome by BP.

    ALSO,

    Top port config is the ideal way to control dual wastegate systems (i.e. your 135i.) because of the BP difference between the Scrolls. Without it, you would have erratic control. That is why i recommended you lock in your JB testing for the top port now.

    OK. So more info.

    Hz output is ideally a function on the diaphragm size. Lower Hz, yields more volume of air per pulse. Higher Hz yields lower volume of air per pulse. Larger gate are suitible for lower Hz, smaller gates work well with raised Hz because of this -- changing the Hz, will effectively shift your usable DC range. If you find that you are OUT of DC and want more PSI, drop your Hz output, and it will shift your DC accordingly.

    As the function of Hz, and with the above understanding; as Hz goes down (20hz for instance) DC goes down. As Hz goes up (33, 40, 44, etc.) DC must go up to compensate.

    Lets take a 44mm WG for instance. At 20Hz, it may only need a DC of 22% to net 16 psi with a 10PSI spring. If you change the freq to 40, it will take more DC (to achieve volume) in order to move the diaphragm the same amount to achieve the same 16PSI.

    Anthony
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  4. #254
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    which mac valve part number is this?
    Turbo lag is the on ramp to the highway which is power.

  5. #255
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    @WDBi

    I'd like to give you the PN, but we've spent a lot of time and money on R&D to find the perfect solenoid solution for various applications we deal with. Solenoid can be purchased through us via email, phone, or Web store.

    Thanks!

    Anthony
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    http://www.fftec.com

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  6. #256
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by WDBi Click here to enlarge
    which mac valve part number is this?
    The one I purchased is allegedly the same one AEM relabels with their own P/N. I'm not sure if this is the one FFTEC uses or not, but many others use it.

    35A-AAA-DDBA-1BA
    12 VDC
    5.4 Watts
    10-40 Hz
    ~25 Ohms

    I think there is another otherwise identical version made by MAC that has a higher wattage rating.

  7. #257
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Eleventeen Click here to enlarge
    The one I purchased is allegedly the same one AEM relabels with their own P/N. I'm not sure if this is the one FFTEC uses or not, but many others use it.

    35A-AAA-DDBA-1BA
    12 VDC
    5.4 Watts
    10-40 Hz
    ~25 Ohms

    I think there is another otherwise identical version made by MAC that has a higher wattage rating.
    If you get bored and have time to test out the MAC solenoid on the car I'd love to see some AT logs with the new firmware using it. Click here to enlarge

    Slowed the PID & duty down to 20hz, and rescaled the JB4 output so that 1-100% is equal to 15-50% duty. Doing the duty cycle tuning now but everything is looking stable. Down the road if we need a higher ceiling there is plenty more to go in the solenoid.
    Attached Images Attached Images   
    Last edited by Terry@BMS; 12-01-2013 at 01:46 PM.
    Burger Motorsports
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    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

  8. #258
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    If you get bored and have time to test out the MAC solenoid on the car I'd love to see some AT logs with the new firmware using it. Click here to enlarge

    Slowed the PID & duty down to 20hz, and rescaled the JB4 output so that 1-100% is equal to 15-50% duty. Doing the duty cycle tuning now but everything is looking stable. Down the road if we need a higher ceiling there is plenty more to go in the solenoid.
    Yeah, I can definitely check it out. I will just have to pop the Mac valve back in.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    If you get bored and have time to test out the MAC solenoid on the car I'd love to see some AT logs with the new firmware using it. Click here to enlarge

    Slowed the PID & duty down to 20hz, and rescaled the JB4 output so that 1-100% is equal to 15-50% duty. Doing the duty cycle tuning now but everything is looking stable. Down the road if we need a higher ceiling there is plenty more to go in the solenoid.
    Just out of curiosity why are you running 1/2 PWM before spool kicks in?

  10. #260
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rudypoochris Click here to enlarge
    Just out of curiosity why are you running 1/2 PWM before spool kicks in?
    Just a byproduct of how the PID is programmed. When boost is below the spring rate dutycycle can be anything and it won't have any physical effect on spool.
    Burger Motorsports
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  11. #261
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    If you get bored and have time to test out the MAC solenoid on the car I'd love to see some AT logs with the new firmware using it. Click here to enlarge

    Slowed the PID & duty down to 20hz, and rescaled the JB4 output so that 1-100% is equal to 15-50% duty. Doing the duty cycle tuning now but everything is looking stable. Down the road if we need a higher ceiling there is plenty more to go in the solenoid.
    Terry am I reading that log wrong or did it take 1.5 or so seconds after that 1/2 second shift to get back to 18psi?

  12. #262
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    Got the MAC programming in and working well. Now I need to spend some time sorting out this NLS timing flatline. Click here to enlarge
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Burger Motorsports
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  13. #263
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DallasBoosted Click here to enlarge
    Terry am I reading that log wrong or did it take 1.5 or so seconds after that 1/2 second shift to get back to 18psi?
    Reading it wrong. It's two separate runs. The JB4 interface has an option to truncate out non-WOT activity so you can quickly focus in on the meat of the log when viewing.
    Burger Motorsports
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  14. #264
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Eleventeen Click here to enlarge
    Yeah, I can definitely check it out. I will just have to pop the Mac valve back in.
    Sweet email me when ready. You'll need to configure in the top port configuration using FFTEC's diagram above.
    Burger Motorsports
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Reading it wrong. It's two separate runs. The JB4 interface has an option to truncate out non-WOT activity so you can quickly focus in on the meat of the log when viewing.
    Ah ok great.. I thought the RPM's dropped a little much too. Click here to enlarge

    Would it be a fair statement to say the closer you get the expected load/boost in the base flash to what you ultimately want the JB4 to run, the less biasing it has to do? So if my base flash expects 15psi, and I'm running 17psi via the JB4, then thats a fair bit less biasing of MAP/o2 sensors than if it were a stock base flash, is that correct?

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    In some sense. In certain situations more piggyback involvement is preferred to less though. The DME has many side effects and limitations with regards to higher internal boost targets that are not present at lower internal boost targets.
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  17. #267
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    In some sense. In certain situations more piggyback involvement is preferred to less though. The DME has many side effects and limitations with regards to higher internal boost targets that are not present at lower internal boost targets.
    Is there a BB flash that goes with single kits? Sorry for getting a little off topic..
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  18. #268
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fastgti69 Click here to enlarge
    Is there a BB flash that goes with single kits? Sorry for getting a little off topic..
    Yes it's a separate flash file.
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    Have the NLS timing back up to normal. Poor shift execution but timing is solid. Click here to enlarge

    Fixed 6500rpm+ timing targets to cap around 10.5 degrees after this run.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Last edited by Terry@BMS; 12-03-2013 at 03:09 PM.
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    I need to install the Mac tonight. Boost is targeting nicely.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Have the NLS timing back up to normal. Poor shift execution but timing is solid. Click here to enlarge

    Fixed 6500rpm+ timing targets to cap around 10.5 degrees after this run.
    Click here to enlargeCant wait to try the new NLS.
    Click here to enlarge
    460whp/510wtq tuned by Terry

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    Been busy with N55 stuff so the E92 has been in the garage. Next Monday I'll get back to work on it. Click here to enlarge
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    Roads are too cold/slippery to test much but 20psi @ 4000rpm and 24psi @ 4200rpm is pretty decent spool for this 6466 if you ask me. Click here to enlarge
    Attached Images Attached Images  
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Roads are too cold/slippery to test much but 20psi @ 4000rpm and 24psi @ 4200rpm is pretty decent spool for this 6466 if you ask me. Click here to enlarge
    Gear?
    2011 E90 M3 \ Melbourne Rot Metallic

    Click here to enlarge

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    Great spool considering the size of the turbo.
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