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Thread: Batch 2 update

  1. #26
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    Couple of good articles comparing the GTX style wheels and the standard cast GT style wheels. Worth a read so you know why we went with the billet GTX style wheels.

    http://blog.perrinperformance.com/ga...turbo-comparo/
    http://blog.perrinperformance.com/ga...omparo-part-2/
    Thanks for the info, this is like gold to me

  2. #27
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    Couple of good articles comparing the GTX style wheels and the standard cast GT style wheels. Worth a read so you know why we went with the billet GTX style wheels.

    http://blog.perrinperformance.com/ga...turbo-comparo/
    http://blog.perrinperformance.com/ga...omparo-part-2/
    Nice articles.

    Tony, any comments on ceramic coating the turbos? My guess is it really isn't worth it on stock frame turbos. Maybe on the stage 3 coat and wrap to help spool up...

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    Great info! I'm excited to get mine!
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Torgus Click here to enlarge
    Nice articles.

    Tony, any comments on ceramic coating the turbos? My guess is it really isn't worth it on stock frame turbos. Maybe on the stage 3 coat and wrap to help spool up...
    I'd also like to know that. IMO ceramic coating is always a good idea, evacuating heat on turbocharged cars is always a good idea.

    Alpina_B3_Lux
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    Gone: BMW 335i Individual (Íhlins, PFC brakes, RB turbos etc.)

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Alpina_B3_Lux Click here to enlarge
    I'd also like to know that. IMO ceramic coating is always a good idea, evacuating heat on turbocharged cars is always a good idea.

    Alpina_B3_Lux
    Have Tony drop them to Swaintech http://swaintech.com/race-coatings/r...aust-coatings/

    I have wasted a lot of money playing with many coatings and wraps. The Swaintech coating system is head and shoulders above the names you'll hear from forum cronies. Price is a tad less than Jet-Hot with a coating that is miles ahead of the old 1980's Jet-Hot standard, looks better and lasts longer.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bobS Click here to enlarge
    Great info! I'm excited to get mine!

    Same here can't wait, did you end up going with GTX wheel? I opted to go without considering i was not sure of the added benefit/cost ratio $400 for 15/20hp. Although after seeing as were that power actually was on the dyno curve is what i am exited about considering i would rather have my tune set up so boost comes on later. I am still reconsidering adding it if Tony would allow, although still on the fence. How many people with Stg2B2 opted for the GTX wheel?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by islandroad83 Click here to enlarge
    Same here can't wait, did you end up going with GTX wheel? I opted to go without considering i was not sure of the added benefit/cost ratio $400 for 15/20hp. Although after seeing as were that power actually was on the dyno curve is what i am exited about considering i would rather have my tune set up so boost comes on later. I am still reconsidering adding it if Tony would allow, although still on the fence. How many people with Stg2B2 opted for the GTX wheel?
    I went GTX. There's a bit more to it than just spool. Transient throttle response is much better on a GTX wheel. Plus I figured if i'm gonna drop all this money on a set of turbos, might as well get something that gives me a few extra ponies without any real trade offs. $400 extra is a pretty small investment for more power and less lag.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by islandroad83 Click here to enlarge
    Same here can't wait, did you end up going with GTX wheel? I opted to go without considering i was not sure of the added benefit/cost ratio $400 for 15/20hp. Although after seeing as were that power actually was on the dyno curve is what i am exited about considering i would rather have my tune set up so boost comes on later. I am still reconsidering adding it if Tony would allow, although still on the fence. How many people with Stg2B2 opted for the GTX wheel?
    Up until you set is built and ready to ship you can switch it out. Its just a matter of building your CHRA's with the billet wheels instead of the cast.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by islandroad83 Click here to enlarge
    Same here can't wait, did you end up going with GTX wheel? I opted to go without considering i was not sure of the added benefit/cost ratio $400 for 15/20hp. Although after seeing as were that power actually was on the dyno curve is what i am exited about considering i would rather have my tune set up so boost comes on later. I am still reconsidering adding it if Tony would allow, although still on the fence. How many people with Stg2B2 opted for the GTX wheel?
    I did. I got all the options... Car is in the shop today getting a stg 3 clutch and smfw
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    I also did all options, thrust and GTX wheel. @VargasTurboTech would it be worth it to have these coated? I was thinking about doing it, and having it done before you ship would definitely be nice! lol
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    Wondering the same. Interested in the benefits and cost of getting the turbos coated.

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    I can't wait to get mines too Click here to enlarge. It's like waiting for Christmas lol. I went with the GTX upgrade also. Might as well since it's only an extra $400 for better overall performance.

    Hopefully, after the install, I don't experience any issues and I can head straight to the dyno and then to the track.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LuSt4Boost Click here to enlarge
    I can't wait to get mines too Click here to enlarge. It's like waiting for Christmas lol. I went with the GTX upgrade also. Might as well since it's only an extra $400 for better overall performance.

    Hopefully, after the install, I don't experience any issues and I can head straight to the dyno and then to the track.
    Please dyno now, so we have a baseline for comparison.
    700 and change

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by The Ghost Click here to enlarge
    Please dyno now, so we have a baseline for comparison.
    Don't think it'll be a fair comparison versus normal stock turbos as my stock turbos are almost on the way out. The huge notice in power loss and drop in 1/4 mile times is what prompted me to upgrade. Not to mention the faint turbo whine and wastegate rattle.

    However, I did dyno 2yrs ago when i was JB4 only and I do plan to use the same mustang dyno once Vargus turbos are installed.

    Bone stock - 260whp
    JB4 w/100oct - 355whp... 12.5 @114

    Shop owner was not able to get torque to read that day.

    Since then I've added catless dp's, Helix intake, meth, and now fmic. I also did 11.7@119 before adding fmic.

    I'm more focused on dropping my 1/4 mile numbers Click here to enlarge

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    I got thrust and gtx wheels Click here to enlarge
    Cobb tuned, spec2+, wavetrac, DCI, ARdp's, AA fmic, forge DV's, M3 links & Sways, bbs lm's, bunch of exterior mods, and one happy BMW driver

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by The Ghost Click here to enlarge
    Please dyno now, so we have a baseline for comparison.
    I have dyno numbers for FBO pump stock turbo....on brens dynoClick here to enlarge. I'll be sure to share vtt stg2 batch 2 and meth/93 numbers!
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by The Ghost Click here to enlarge
    Please dyno now, so we have a baseline for comparison.
    Already posted baseline dyno numbers on stock turbos 93+METH, will do E30+meth baseline before turbos are installed as well. I actually have a stock vs. my current FBO+meth posted, so will be able to see all three once turbos are installed.
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    5 out of 5 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Tony,

    I have a question for you if I may:

    When do you foresee freezing the development of these turbos and actually starting the delivery of a consistent product across batches?

    I ask this because ultimately, people would like to see a product that leaves your shop that they can buy now and then buy it again 5 years from now and it will be EXACTLY the same. This way, the tuning magicians @ PTF can nail down a set "OTS" maps ready and people don't have to waste time and more money trying to custom tune their cars all the time.

    I mean seriously now, how many more iterations will you make of those turbos before you consider the product finalized? ...and why are those not called BETA turbos, since you keep tinkering with the design?

    Please, try to understand: I really like your products and what you have done for our tuning community. But I think it is time to quit dicking around and start mass producing a reliable, proven, finalized product. It will reduce a lot of frustrations on the customer side of things.
    From all the things I've lost,
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    As someone working on turbines for a living, I hope he always keeps pushing things, allowing upgrades in bearing materials, blade design, etc. 5 years from now there will be better designs available. Understand that if you want an "OTS" map to work on an upgraded turbo... you're going to be leaving a lot on the table. I have a hard time thinking that someone would want to go through the expense of upgrading turbos and pushing our little 3 liter without wanting a custom tune. Any of the tuners can give you a base map to work with until you have time/etc to get a proper custom tune. *shrug* My 2c.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by vasillalov Click here to enlarge
    Tony,

    I have a question for you if I may:

    When do you foresee freezing the development of these turbos and actually starting the delivery of a consistent product across batches?

    I ask this because ultimately, people would like to see a product that leaves your shop that they can buy now and then buy it again 5 years from now and it will be EXACTLY the same. This way, the tuning magicians @ PTF can nail down a set "OTS" maps ready and people don't have to waste time and more money trying to custom tune their cars all the time.

    I mean seriously now, how many more iterations will you make of those turbos before you consider the product finalized? ...and why are those not called BETA turbos, since you keep tinkering with the design?

    Please, try to understand: I really like your products and what you have done for our tuning community. But I think it is time to quit dicking around and start mass producing a reliable, proven, finalized product. It will reduce a lot of frustrations on the customer side of things.
    Honestly your post borders on nonsensical, I will never "freeze" development, I will always strive to make a better product as newer technology becomes available and as we learn from the platform. Why hasn't the automotive industry "frozen" development on new cars so we could all have the EXACT same performance we had 5 years ago, using the EXACT same tuning methods? Why hasn't the turbocharger industry as a whole "frozen" development on new turbine designs, new compressor designs, new bearing designs so we could have the EXACT same turbos we had 5 years ago. I mean Garrett turbos work wonderful right now, they should just leave them alone so we don't have to change tuning for more efficient turbo design. You see my point here, no industry, or business in the world to can hope to stay relevant by not always striving to make a better product. With that said, Stage 2 will remain as they are being sold in this batch, unless something major comes along in the way of wheel development etc, but do not fear stage 2's will not be changing again anytime soon. I also just want to point out, the other guys turbos have not changed in 2 years, they re EXACTLY the same. You see any OTS RB maps that are flash and go race, of course not. Every car runs slightly different, they vary with mods, fuels, etc etc etc etc etc. You can NEVER have an OTS map to get maximum horsepower, you need a custom tune for that. Again see how your post borders on nonsensical and come across feeling more like a bash. Click here to enlarge
    Last edited by Tony@VargasTurboTech; 08-21-2013 at 10:12 AM.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    Why hasn't the automotive industry "frozen" development on new cars so we could all have the EXACT same performance we had 5 years ago, using the EXACT same tuning methods?. Click here to enlarge
    They have! They've been doing it for decades. Its called release cycles! The release cycle for the N54 engine was 6 years: 2006-2011.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    . You see my point here, no industry, or business in the world to can hope to stay relevant by not always striving to make a better product.
    Yes I do see your point. Do not get me wrong here. I am in no way against progress at all. But if a product is different from batch to batch, it creates a sense that the product is not stable and ruins the confidence of the buyer in the product. If I buy batch 2 now and down the line I see 2 more batches coming out with improved bits, then I am now beginning to question my own reasoning for purchasing an expensive item in the first place. Buyers remorse if you will.

    Look, some of us do not care for top HP or 1/4 miles or having a dyno queen. Some of us actually care for a product that will be reliable, consistent and serviceable long term. I will not spend a single penny on a set of turbochargers which I have no confidence in that they will last at least 4 years and that I will be able to get them rebuilt by you or have the opportunity to repurchase them.

    My philosophy with tuning cars:

    1. Overbuild the hardware
    2. Get the best software you can
    3. Dial the software to 90% leaving you 10% safety and reliability margin.

    This is why OTS maps work great for me. I know they will perform consistently whether I am in Chicago, FL or Denver.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by vasillalov Click here to enlarge
    They have! They've been doing it for decades. Its called release cycles! The release cycle for the N54 engine was 6 years: 2006-2011.



    Yes I do see your point. Do not get me wrong here. I am in no way against progress at all. But if a product is different from batch to batch, it creates a sense that the product is not stable and ruins the confidence of the buyer in the product. If I buy batch 2 now and down the line I see 2 more batches coming out with improved bits, then I am now beginning to question my own reasoning for purchasing an expensive item in the first place. Buyers remorse if you will.

    Look, some of us do not care for top HP or 1/4 miles or having a dyno queen. Some of us actually care for a product that will be reliable, consistent and serviceable long term. I will not spend a single penny on a set of turbochargers which I have no confidence in that they will last at least 4 years and that I will be able to get them rebuilt by you or have the opportunity to repurchase them.

    My philosophy with tuning cars:

    1. Overbuild the hardware
    2. Get the best software you can
    3. Dial the software to 90% leaving you 10% safety and reliability margin.

    This is why OTS maps work great for me. I know they will perform consistently whether I am in Chicago, FL or Denver.
    Seriously dude? So you think Tony or anyone for that matter should just not improve their product so that when YOU decide to purchase you won't feel outdated when a newer version comes out?

    This is one of the dumbest idea/comments I've heard yet on the forums. So, you don't expect Samsung to better their cell phone every year?

    And why does improving something mean the previous wasn't reliable? WTF are you talking about? So you're saying because BMW comes out with a new model than that makes you feel that your older used car is now somehow less reliable than it was before they released the new model?

    You are making no sense. Do yourself a favor, sit back, re-read your own posts and take time until you realize how dumb you sound, then just don't post about it again. Forget turbos, if this is your mindset for all things then you have issues.
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    @vasillolov

    BTW, OTS maps will NOT perform the same in different locations, conditions, or cars. And your theory of "leaving 10 percent for reliability" makes no sense. Either the hardware can handle it or not. If you want to dial back your own tune for more reliability then fine, but I don't see how that pertains to anything you said in your previous posts about newer products coming out.

    Why don't you just write BMW a letter and say,"hey can you just build the perfect car so that I can buy it and not have to worry about a newer, better car coming out for the rest of my life?" let me know how that goes.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by vasillalov Click here to enlarge
    They have! They've been doing it for decades. Its called release cycles! The release cycle for the N54 engine was 6 years: 2006-2011.



    Yes I do see your point. Do not get me wrong here. I am in no way against progress at all. But if a product is different from batch to batch, it creates a sense that the product is not stable and ruins the confidence of the buyer in the product. If I buy batch 2 now and down the line I see 2 more batches coming out with improved bits, then I am now beginning to question my own reasoning for purchasing an expensive item in the first place. Buyers remorse if you will.

    Look, some of us do not care for top HP or 1/4 miles or having a dyno queen. Some of us actually care for a product that will be reliable, consistent and serviceable long term. I will not spend a single penny on a set of turbochargers which I have no confidence in that they will last at least 4 years and that I will be able to get them rebuilt by you or have the opportunity to repurchase them.

    My philosophy with tuning cars:

    1. Overbuild the hardware
    2. Get the best software you can
    3. Dial the software to 90% leaving you 10% safety and reliability margin.

    This is why OTS maps work great for me. I know they will perform consistently whether I am in Chicago, FL or Denver.
    I don't think its fair to compare a release cycle of an engine to that of other components. Looks through out history yes some parts were used over many years but several things were replace from year to year sometimes even using different manufacturers. The N54 life cycle was 6 years?? how many parts on it changed over those years? Fuel pumps, injectors etc would have sucked if they would have just kept everything the same and said nah well fix it in 6 years when the N55 is in production. You ever go to the auto parts store and ask for a remand carb, distributor, alternator etc for something and they ask you which manufacturer so you can get the right part. Alot of things were replaced or upgraded even mid years on production cars, It's a lot harder now as once a decision is made they are locked into something but is that really how you want life to happen, you can't have any changes for 3-6 years?
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    Brusk,

    I get what you are saying and you are right. But you have to agree with me that batch should NOT equal release cycle

    Essentially, by the time your Batch 2 turbo's develop a problem and you actually get any warranty work done on them, Tony will be on a revision 10+ and you will most likely be SOL claiming any warranty.

    Again, guys, do not mistake my criticism for bashing/hatred. BMW parts and upgrades have always been pricy compared to other platforms and I for one demand high quality and long term support from a vendor when I buy something.
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