Close

Page 4 of 16 FirstFirst ... 2345614 ... LastLast
Results 76 to 100 of 395
  1. #76
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    236
    Rep Points
    757.9
    Mentioned
    91 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    8


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JoshBoody Click here to enlarge
    thanks, don't think i'm going anywhere soon... no one wants a modded car and not sure when I'll get the motivation to demod. Too hot anyway during the summer.

    To add to my above post for @Josh@Cobb ... how about adding another decimal place in the p-factor table. This was brought to your attention many months ago. Come on guys.
    I can certainly add a decimal place to that table. In fact, if anyone really wants this, I should be able to send you a new xml next week. Its much easier for me to send out a couple xmls than it is to re-compile every version of ATR. Plus I'm willing to bet there are probably only about 5 people that would want to change that table. All you have to do is email me...
    There are 3D fuel scalars in some roms, you're correct. It depends on how BMW set them up. I can create 3d scalars for the other roms, but they would be unpopulated and it would take quite a bit of work for the end user to get them dialed in. I can work on adding this stuff, for sure.

    As for the 18.5 psi boost limit, that is due to the logic in the DME. Yes we have some test code that raises this, but its a huge project and isn't done. Also, open source or not, you'll never be able to raise that value without changing the operating system of the DME. Its not a just a table change.
    Josh Dankel
    ECU Engineer
    866.922.3059
    Click here to enlarge
    web | forum | blog | facebook | twitter | youtube

  2. #77
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    IL
    Posts
    258
    Rep Points
    256.3
    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    3


    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Josh@Cobb Click here to enlarge
    I can certainly add a decimal place to that table. In fact, if anyone really wants this, I should be able to send you a new xml next week. Its much easier for me to send out a couple xmls than it is to re-compile every version of ATR. Plus I'm willing to bet there are probably only about 5 people that would want to change that table. All you have to do is email me...
    There are 3D fuel scalars in some roms, you're correct. It depends on how BMW set them up. I can create 3d scalars for the other roms, but they would be unpopulated and it would take quite a bit of work for the end user to get them dialed in. I can work on adding this stuff, for sure.

    As for the 18.5 psi boost limit, that is due to the logic in the DME. Yes we have some test code that raises this, but its a huge project and isn't done. Also, open source or not, you'll never be able to raise that value without changing the operating system of the DME. Its not a just a table change.
    Josh - will you have the test code available when Vargas stage 3 kits ship out?
    Titanium Silver E92 09 BMW 335i xdrive 6AT
    KW V3 coilovers, AMS FMIC, AR Catless DP, Walbro 455 LPFP, BMS DCI, Alpina B3 Trans Flash, Vargas HPFP and Rail
    Protuned via Cobb by JR TUNED @ PandL Motorsports
    75%E85/25%93 blend 430awhp/470lbs tq on AWD Dynojet
    Dyno Video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iE6Ed...ature=youtu.be

    Click here to enlarge

  3. #78
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    236
    Rep Points
    757.9
    Mentioned
    91 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    8


    2 out of 2 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DQE92 Click here to enlarge
    Josh - will you have the test code available when Vargas stage 3 kits ship out?
    I definitely hope so.
    Josh Dankel
    ECU Engineer
    866.922.3059
    Click here to enlarge
    web | forum | blog | facebook | twitter | youtube

  4. #79
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    IL
    Posts
    258
    Rep Points
    256.3
    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    3


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Awesome cant wait!!
    Titanium Silver E92 09 BMW 335i xdrive 6AT
    KW V3 coilovers, AMS FMIC, AR Catless DP, Walbro 455 LPFP, BMS DCI, Alpina B3 Trans Flash, Vargas HPFP and Rail
    Protuned via Cobb by JR TUNED @ PandL Motorsports
    75%E85/25%93 blend 430awhp/470lbs tq on AWD Dynojet
    Dyno Video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iE6Ed...ature=youtu.be

    Click here to enlarge

  5. #80
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Seneca, SC
    Posts
    280
    Rep Points
    626.5
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    7


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Now just waiting for the post where shiv offers e-tunes. I am curious to see the future of this but as of now I am in the market for a cobb ap

  6. #81
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    937
    Rep Points
    562.7
    Mentioned
    52 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    6


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Josh@Cobb Click here to enlarge
    I can certainly add a decimal place to that table. In fact, if anyone really wants this, I should be able to send you a new xml next week. Its much easier for me to send out a couple xmls than it is to re-compile every version of ATR. Plus I'm willing to bet there are probably only about 5 people that would want to change that table. All you have to do is email me...
    There are 3D fuel scalars in some roms, you're correct. It depends on how BMW set them up. I can create 3d scalars for the other roms, but they would be unpopulated and it would take quite a bit of work for the end user to get them dialed in. I can work on adding this stuff, for sure.

    As for the 18.5 psi boost limit, that is due to the logic in the DME. Yes we have some test code that raises this, but its a huge project and isn't done. Also, open source or not, you'll never be able to raise that value without changing the operating system of the DME. Its not a just a table change.
    thanks for the response. For the 3d fuel scalar, i have i8aos and ATR includes 1d scalar for this ROM, but there has been a i8aos XML file with 3d scalar available for a long time now. How are we suppose to know/obtain this? Maybe a post once in awhile updating what's available if desired. And a file with "beta" tables would be great also.

    A table id love to have is related to throttle plate response, so we can hold boost easier during a shift... I know its there somewhere.

  7. #82
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    3,089
    Rep Points
    999.1
    Mentioned
    104 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    10


    Reputation: Yes | No
    I look at the OpenFlash hardware announcement as a positive for Cobb. If any advancements are made in terms of uncovering new tables, Cobb can simply steal their work and implement it in their OTS maps and ATP/ATR. Hey, it's open source ROM access, right?

  8. #83
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Simi Valley, CA
    Posts
    8,006
    Rep Points
    8,957.3
    Mentioned
    633 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    90


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by blaster3500 Click here to enlarge
    Now just waiting for the post where shiv offers e-tunes. I am curious to see the future of this but as of now I am in the market for a cobb ap
    If I had to guess I'd guess that won't happen. He will post a template for making his procede flash. We'll probably just do the same for the JB4 flash. And professional tuners will wash their hands of this and let the community drive maps/support for it. Which means not much will happen with it in my opinion. Sooner or later someone will write a small ap to upload flash maps modified using openECU via $30 eBay OBDII cables and this "open" flash device will be obsoleted. But I think Cobb will continue to have a place in the flash market due to what they bring to the table in terms of a finished and well supported product.
    Burger Motorsports
    Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, N63s, S55s, and S63s!

    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

  9. #84
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    3,089
    Rep Points
    999.1
    Mentioned
    104 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    10


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by blaster3500 Click here to enlarge
    Now just waiting for the post where shiv offers e-tunes. I am curious to see the future of this but as of now I am in the market for a cobb ap
    How would that work? You can't lock maps with this hardware.

  10. #85
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Green Bay, WI USA
    Posts
    109
    Rep Points
    242.5
    Mentioned
    15 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    3


    2 out of 2 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by klipseracer Click here to enlarge
    Im am just guessing. And I dont know much about the dme yet. But inpa flashes different parts of the dme than this 2.1mb bin file. It does a 4mb 0pa file among other things, of that I dont know how much is actually transmitted to the dme or where and what in those files are redundant, but perhaps its flashing different banks of memory that control more of the underlying control system. This would likely be encrypted/signed and checked by a bootrom. Those alpina files as an example are probably encrypted/signed with a private key and rooting the dme may be necessary before we can flash custom data with inpa. Just a guess.

    The .0da file seems to contain most of the maps that I'd want to modify (fuel, timing, etc). I wrote a python script to convert the .0da files to binary, I can open them in WinOLS and edit the maps, but its' not detecting that file as an MSD80 image, so it won't load the checksum module. I'm going to try to figure that out after the holiday.

    I started working on some code to do the checksum calculation without WinOLS, but since this supposed 'open source' thing was going to be released I stopped.

    If some people wanted to get together and figure this out, I'd be down to help. Even if it has to be flashed with WinKFP, that'd still be pretty cool.

    roy@leetbook:$ xxd -s 0x40304 -l 4 *IGD0S.bin
    0040304: 98b3 e85b ...[
    Single Turbo E92 BMW 335i | My YouTube channel
    Click here to enlarge
    If you can leave black marks on a straight from the time you exit a corner till the time you brake for the next turn....... Then, you have enough horsepower.

  11. #86
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    236
    Rep Points
    757.9
    Mentioned
    91 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    8


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JoshBoody Click here to enlarge
    thanks for the response. For the 3d fuel scalar, i have i8aos and ATR includes 1d scalar for this ROM, but there has been a i8aos XML file with 3d scalar available for a long time now. How are we suppose to know/obtain this? Maybe a post once in awhile updating what's available if desired. And a file with "beta" tables would be great also.

    A table id love to have is related to throttle plate response, so we can hold boost easier during a shift... I know its there somewhere.
    I did make a 3d scalar for I8A0S, but there are only 3 people with that for testing (all Pro-Tuners). Things like adding a decimal place to the P-Factor table is a pretty simple process, but like I said most will never touch this. I'm happy to send that to someone who needs/wants it, and I'll include it on the next ATR/ATP release.
    As for other tables, the general process goes like this... while doing table discovery if I see something that looks promising, I add it to for in-house testing. If it still seems worthwhile, I send it to a couple Pro Tuners for testing and review. If all is good, I will add it into a build. This is how the fuel scalar testing was done and released. I have a few things being tested right now and if all is well, it will be added shortly. I'll discuss this in our next expert group meeting and maybe a "beta" tester version of ATR could be released from time to time. The main problem is that when I do my testing I know what roms are in vehicles I have available. I don't have to add it for every rom to see how things are working. It can be pretty time consuming to add stuff to every different version when I'm not positive its something that is even helpful.

    Also, if I'm not 100% on what something is doing, I'd rather test on our shop vehicles. No reason to cause damage to someone's personal car due to testing in the field and not in-house.
    Josh Dankel
    ECU Engineer
    866.922.3059
    Click here to enlarge
    web | forum | blog | facebook | twitter | youtube

  12. #87
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    203
    Rep Points
    84.6
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Josh@Cobb Click here to enlarge
    Also, if I'm not 100% on what something is doing, I'd rather test on our shop vehicles. No reason to cause damage to someone's personal car due to testing in the field and not in-house.

    That's what i'm also unclear about...

    The lack of data logging aside (lol), are the e90 folks expecting development to happen on this device by average users randomly fiddling with hex values and using their own car as testing ground?

    I don't get it... The people on e90 seem so excited about this being revolutionary and how it will push forward development, but how many people are actually going to be willing to jerk around with this?
    Click here to enlarge

  13. #88
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    117,751
    Rep Points
    31,550.6
    Mentioned
    2064 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    316



    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by tofu Click here to enlarge
    The people on e90 seem so excited about this being revolutionary and how it will push forward development
    These same people also think E90 is open and free so no wonder they apply the same logic to this "open" tuning.

  14. #89
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    236
    Rep Points
    757.9
    Mentioned
    91 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    8


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by tofu Click here to enlarge
    That's what i'm also unclear about...

    The lack of data logging aside (lol), are the e90 folks expecting development to happen on this device by average users randomly fiddling with hex values and using their own car as testing ground?

    I don't get it... The people on e90 seem so excited about this being revolutionary and how it will push forward development, but how many people are actually going to be willing to jerk around with this?
    Agreed, no doubt this could be powerful at some point, but randomly changing hex values is not exactly safe. Without knowing what units you're working with, what the scalar is, whether its signed or unsigned, etc will make for an arduous process to figure things out. Not to mention that even once datalogging is available, you'll need to find monitors for what you're changing. You'll also need to know all of the data I mentioned for x and y axis points. It takes a lot of effort to do table discovery with the proper tools. If we had done N54 development with hex and a rom editor, we'd still be working on it.
    Josh Dankel
    ECU Engineer
    866.922.3059
    Click here to enlarge
    web | forum | blog | facebook | twitter | youtube

  15. #90
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Houston under a book
    Posts
    1,336
    Rep Points
    2,501.8
    Mentioned
    63 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    26


    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Well it's sad to see it didn't end up being open source after all, at least they changed their description to reflect that. I'm not impressed by the device at all really but it is what it is. I was hopeful it would be different, but I think most of us saw it coming (especially klipseracer).

    As for TunerPro, I have used TunerPro RT for years, it may not be open source but it's freeware (or you can donate to the dev) and incredibly powerful. Emulation, logging, whatever you want. I'm probably going to pick one of these up, but I am the sort who enjoys looking through the ROM and defining tables of interest to me. I would have definitely preferred a cable, but it is what it is. I can finally find the tables that monitor catalyst efficiency and readiness for my offroad car. Much better than just disabling the code.

    I mean I understand everyone's perspective here this is not what it was touted from the beginning (we all know why that happened) but at least because of voldemort it progressed quickly and has tons of the tables already defined, from the looks of it much moreso than ATR, and those interested (like me) can find more to give to you ungrateful ones. And at least the price is reasonable for a flasher. I own a Cobb, it's great, but considering I was only interested in ATR and not the OTS maps or service anyway, it was pretty expensive. For what I want this device will work fine.

  16. #91
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Simi Valley, CA
    Posts
    8,006
    Rep Points
    8,957.3
    Mentioned
    633 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    90


    3 out of 3 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Robbinhood
    First, I developed a programming cable and simple interface. The user would have to do all the map finding/editing themselves through a laptop. That was the original plan. Unfortunately, we started getting threats from some companies which we didn't exactly ignore. Our goal was not to ruin a competitive market. People make their living doing this stuff and I can understand their issues with it being giving it away for free. But I also felt that there was an inequality between what the market deserved and what was currently available. So our focus tuned from making low dollar, no-frills cable into something a bit more in-line with existing products. But at substantially lower price, with added functionality and with lot of room to grow. This meant adopting a hardware platform that can support the features we wanted to offer (data graphing/viewing/generous storage capacity/and so on.) And the rest is history.
    I'm not really following the logic here. You were planning on releasing plans and software for an inexpensive open source flash cable. But when faced with legal threats instead decided to essentially sell a knock off of an existing product, VIN lock it, and monetize it? It seems to me by accepting payment and making it so similar to Cobb you've increased your liability 10x. And how is 320x240 resolution and 256 MB on the Powergate3 device even in the same ballpark as what can be done on a laptop?

    More importantly should someone release a $30 USB->CAN cable to read/write flash maps, won't this obsolete your business model? My $.02 is you should have done a VIN locked USB cable for $100 (making a bit of profit per unit) and closed the door on flash competitors in your market. Instead what you've done is basically make it that much easier for someone else to come along and do exactly what you had originally intended to do. Only now the public will already know how to modify maps using TunerPro and one needs only provide a mechanism to read/write the BIN.
    Burger Motorsports
    Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, N63s, S55s, and S63s!

    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

  17. #92
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Houston under a book
    Posts
    1,336
    Rep Points
    2,501.8
    Mentioned
    63 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    26


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    I'm not really following the logic here. You were planning on releasing plans and software for an inexpensive open source flash cable. But when faced with legal threats instead decided to essentially sell a knock off of an existing product, VIN lock it, and monetize it? It seems to me by accepting payment and making it so similar to Cobb you've increased your liability 10x. And how is 320x240 resolution and 256 MB on the Powergate3 device even in the same ballpark as what can be done on a laptop?

    More importantly should someone release a $30 USB->CAN cable to read/write flash maps, won't this obsolete your business model? My $.02 is you should have done a VIN locked USB cable for $100 (making a bit of profit per unit) and closed the door on flash competitors in your market. Instead what you've done is basically make it that much easier for someone else to come along and do exactly what you had originally intended to do. Only now the public will already know how to modify maps using TunerPro and one needs only provide a mechanism to read/write the BIN.
    +1 this is what I wanted.

    And for some of the stuff above, not all discovery is so dangerous and doesn't require blind guessing at values and scaling. Cars and ECU's work with hardware that has specific voltages and ranges, so you can determine those ranges and figure out how to modify them usually pretty easily. And usually some general table locations can be found by looking up references from trouble codes and monitors.

  18. #93
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    203
    Rep Points
    84.6
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by V8Bait Click here to enlarge
    +1 this is what I wanted.

    And for some of the stuff above, not all discovery is so dangerous and doesn't require blind guessing at values and scaling. Cars and ECU's work with hardware that has specific voltages and ranges, so you can determine those ranges and figure out how to modify them usually pretty easily. And usually some general table locations can be found by looking up references from trouble codes and monitors.
    I don't like to offer blind support, but I assume COBB has most of the more obvious stuff covered by now
    Click here to enlarge

  19. #94
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    236
    Rep Points
    757.9
    Mentioned
    91 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    8


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by V8Bait Click here to enlarge
    And for some of the stuff above, not all discovery is so dangerous and doesn't require blind guessing at values and scaling. Cars and ECU's work with hardware that has specific voltages and ranges, so you can determine those ranges and figure out how to modify them usually pretty easily. And usually some general table locations can be found by looking up references from trouble codes and monitors.
    Very true, but there are a lot of tables that are not based on sensors, especially in the N54. There is a ton of modelling that is done and its all tied to other systems/functions. No doubt discovery can be done this way, its just much more ideal to be able to look through the operation system and see how the tables are actually used and follow the logic/math. All my personal opinion of course.
    Josh Dankel
    ECU Engineer
    866.922.3059
    Click here to enlarge
    web | forum | blog | facebook | twitter | youtube

  20. #95
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    3,089
    Rep Points
    999.1
    Mentioned
    104 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    10


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    I'm not really following the logic here. You were planning on releasing plans and software for an inexpensive open source flash cable. But when faced with legal threats instead decided to essentially sell a knock off of an existing product, VIN lock it, and monetize it? It seems to me by accepting payment and making it so similar to Cobb you've increased your liability 10x. And how is 320x240 resolution and 256 MB on the Powergate3 device even in the same ballpark as what can be done on a laptop?

    More importantly should someone release a $30 USB->CAN cable to read/write flash maps, won't this obsolete your business model? My $.02 is you should have done a VIN locked USB cable for $100 (making a bit of profit per unit) and closed the door on flash competitors in your market. Instead what you've done is basically make it that much easier for someone else to come along and do exactly what you had originally intended to do. Only now the public will already know how to modify maps using TunerPro and one needs only provide a mechanism to read/write the BIN.
    but... its portable... and touch screen...

  21. #96
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    203
    Rep Points
    84.6
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    2 out of 2 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge
    but... its portable... and touch screen...
    he should've just made it interface with andriod and ios, and develop an app for them. at least it would have been somewhat "different"
    Click here to enlarge

  22. #97
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Tallahassee
    Posts
    1,482
    Rep Points
    0.1
    Mentioned
    34 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by tofu Click here to enlarge
    he should've just made it interface with andriod and ios, and develop an app for them. at least it would have been somewhat "different"
    Rombinhood sounds like Shiv in his posts.

  23. #98
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Stockholm
    Posts
    1,527
    Rep Points
    1,177.6
    Mentioned
    61 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    12


    2 out of 2 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    it is probably Shiv....
    07 335i AT - MOTIV 750 - MHD BMS E85 - BMS PI - JB4G5 - Okada Coils - NGK 5992 Plugs - Helix IC - Stett CP - Custom midpipes with 100 HJS Cats - Bastuck Quad - PSS10 - QUAIFE LSD - BMS OCC - Forge DVs - AR OC - ALCON BBK - M3 Chassi - Dinan CP - Velocity M rear Toe arms - Advan RZ-DF - LUX H8 - Level 10 AT upgrade
    Click here to enlarge

  24. #99
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    203
    Rep Points
    84.6
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    Reputation: Yes | No
    shiv has way too much experience in the BS department to post some of the illogical statements that robinhood made.


    i mean the guy just said that he was originally planning on making it a cable and software, but we would have complained about having to connect to our laptops...
    Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge

  25. #100
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    1,618
    Rep Points
    1,904.6
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    20


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Cobb has nothing to worry about. The refined OTS maps and customer support are worth the extra couple hundred dollars more in my opinion. Second hand AP's go around $600.

Page 4 of 16 FirstFirst ... 2345614 ... LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •