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  1. #26
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    As I posted in another thread:

    Looks like they just can't give up the open source words.


    In a few words, what is the OpenFlash Tablet?
    "...open source map editor (Tuner Pro)"

    Then on TunerPros website their description of TunerPro:
    TunerPro is developed in C++ Win32 API (without MFC/ATL/COM) using Visual Studio 2010 (IDE & Compiler) on Windows 7. As of October 2010, TunerPro (version 5) in its entirety, including all custom controls, comprises 103,000 lines of code (just code lines - no comments or whitespace). The source code is not available so, although I appreciate the interest, please don't ask for it.




    So what is the need for open source reference? Its a map editor. Thats great.


    What is “open source” DME mapping?
    The term “open source”, in the tuning world, refers to being able to have full access to the DME’s ROM file.


    Notice how they have changed it to: "DME Mapping" rather than flashing. Then this appears to be some way of helping the public believe that the dog they call a cat, is in fact a cat, but only in the tuning world. Even though there is still no source code involved. Mapping information inside of a rom file are just values. Data. Not source code which is a collection of computer instructions which comprise a special computer language. In mother Russia, source code writes itself, baby!


    After reading more, its not even a map editor. Firstly, Tuner Pro isn't open source and its the ONLY thing that they are connecting themselves to that even contains those words, besides their name, "OpenFlash Tablet". I am guessing the Micro Mini Mega version is coming next since he works for apple.

    Secondly, Its not even a map editor, TunerPro is included to do that, not to mention again, Tuner Pro is closed source.

    So what is so open about this outside of the fact that it can flash a rom file? So its a hardware locked rom flasher and diagnostics tool.
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  2. #27
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ShrtBus Click here to enlarge
    It's got to be the same hardware and software for the most part as the JZW one. Any one know who makes it?
    JZW blocked out part of the photo that shows it in their post. They obviously already had the read/write functionality done, so I'm not sure what they did other than make some templates based on someone else's tuning (for 2 roms).

    Just an fyi since they seem to be making a big deal of it... all axis points are editable in ATR/ATP. Always have been... and there's no difference in tables between ATR and ATP. The only difference is that ATR is locked to a single rom while ATP allows a Pro Tuner to have access to all roms and they can lock files to protect their tunes (if they want).
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  3. #28
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Josh@Cobb Click here to enlarge
    JZW blocked out part of the photo that shows it in their post. They obviously already had the read/write functionality done, so I'm not sure what did other than make some templates based on someone else's tuning (for 2 roms).

    Just an fyi since they seem to be making a big deal of it... all axis points are editable in ATR/ATP. Always have been... and there's no difference in tables between ATR and ATP. The only difference is that ATR is locked to a single rom while ATP allows a Pro Tuner to have access to all roms and they can lock files to protect their tunes (if they want).

    I feel for your company at this point. I thought it would be some community based, low level logic tool, and now its just another Flash tune. I also find it funny how they justify the price based on the risk they are taking. Which seems like a really bad reason to charge more, they are using the reasoning that because they are doing something that is borderline suit worthy, therefore they deserve a profit... Somehow.
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  4. #29
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    Lol, what a joke.
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  5. #30
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    There is "open source" tuning (and much more actual open source than this) for almost every platform we support. Subaru is a great example. There is a reason why its still our best selling part numbers. We strive to offer quality OTS maps, support our tuner and dealer network, and offer fantastic customer support.
    I'll be honest, I'm not happy about seeing something like this, but its not going to ruin COBB. They still have a lot of work to do to match what we have.
    I also don't understand how any tables will be found without access to the actual DME code. The MSD's have some seriously complicated logic. Without looking at that, blindly changing what someone thinks is a table to test is going to be a very long and disappointing task.
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  6. #31
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  7. #32
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    http://www.alientech-to.it/en/powergate-3
    Interesting, didn't realize Alientech was manufacturing that...
    Last edited by Josh@Cobb; 07-03-2013 at 09:20 PM.
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  8. #33
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Ah nice find.

  9. #34
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    2 out of 2 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Josh@Cobb Click here to enlarge
    There is "open source" tuning (and much more actual open source than this) for almost every platform we support. Subaru is a great example. There is a reason why its still our best selling part numbers. We strive to offer quality OTS maps, support our tuner and dealer network, and offer fantastic customer support.
    I'll be honest, I'm not happy about seeing something like this, but its not going to ruin COBB. They still have a lot of work to do to match what we have.
    I also don't understand how any tables will be found without access to the actual DME code. The MSD's have some seriously complicated logic. Without looking at that, blindly changing what someone thinks is a table to test is going to be a very long and disappointing task.
    Just keep doing what you guys do. You will still have your customers here.
    Last edited by klipseracer; 07-03-2013 at 08:35 PM.
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  10. #35
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by klipseracer Click here to enlarge
    Just keep doing what you guys do. You will still have your customers here.
    Much appreciated. Click here to enlarge
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  11. #36
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Josh@Cobb Click here to enlarge
    Much appreciated. Click here to enlarge
    He means it. I'll be on COBB for as long as I have my car.

  12. #37
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ShrtBus Click here to enlarge
    It went from what everyone wanted to a $400 none open sourced hardware platform that is VIN locked.


    Can anyone guess why?
    We all know why and that is why this isn't what anyone was hoping for.

    Shiv gets his grubby mitts on something and ruins it. Wonderful.

  13. #38
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by klipseracer Click here to enlarge
    So what is so open about this outside of the fact that it can flash a rom file?
    The marketing.

    You portray it as something, get everyone all hyped up, then bend them over and $#@! them.

    I'd pay more for Cobb simply because this is such a letdown. Plus we're talking about professional support, a professional company, etc.

    Get back to me when we have real open source tuning for this platform. For now, the only thing I need to open is a window to air out the BS.

  14. #39
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Josh@Cobb Click here to enlarge
    Much appreciated. Click here to enlarge
    Would you agree that even open source tuning on the subaru platform is more of a misnomer? Because ECUFlash and the others aren't really open source afaik, and the maps aren't really source code to begin with, to source code, a map table would be moreso compared to a buffer or statically defined variable of some kind. Having access to modify the contents of an allocated buffer and not the surrouding code or logic wouldn't really be source code to me, its more like an Open Map editor rather than source editor. Any input here? Its about as close to open source code as myspace was at letting you build an html website/profile.
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  15. #40
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by klipseracer Click here to enlarge
    I feel for your company at this point. I thought it would be some community based, low level logic tool, and now its just another Flash tune. I also find it funny how they justify the price based on the risk they are taking. Which seems like a really bad reason to charge more, they are using the reasoning that because they are doing something that is borderline suit worthy, therefore they deserve a profit... Somehow.
    Didn't Cobb basically say they ripped them off? So what risk? In Cobb figuring out how to go after them and having to hire lawyers?

  16. #41
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    I would just like to point out that I called this EXACTLY for what it is a little while back: a flash loader for a "Vishnu backend" flash. There was no way this was ever going to be open source...
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  17. #42
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rader1 Click here to enlarge
    I would just like to point out that I called this EXACTLY for what it is a little while back: a flash loader for a "Vishnu backend" flash. There was no way this was ever going to be open source...
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  18. #43
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    This reminds me of the Steorn Orbo, the prepetual motion machine company that trolled us for over 4 years and raised a bunch of funds and well... Their site is a 404.

    http://www.engadget.com/tag/steorn/
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  19. #44
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by klipseracer Click here to enlarge
    Would you agree that even open source tuning on the subaru platform is more of a misnomer? Because ECUFlash and the others aren't really open source afaik, and the maps aren't really source code to begin with, to source code, a map table would be moreso compared to a buffer or statically defined variable of some kind. Having access to modify the contents of an allocated buffer and not the surrouding code or logic wouldn't really be source code to me, its more like an Open Map editor rather than source editor. Any input here? Its about as close to open source code as myspace was at letting you build an html website/profile.
    Haha. Yea, to me open source means open source code. I've been doing ECU reverse engineering, table discovery, and writing code for over 7 years (my experience has been strictly automotive reverse engineering specific since college) and it is possible to do trial and error with what you think may be a table in raw hex, but without the ECU code, it multiplies discovery time by an un-measurable amount.
    Last edited by Josh@Cobb; 07-03-2013 at 08:56 PM.
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  20. #45
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    BTW, We never want to hold anything back, so if there is something even kind of obvious that's worth trying... I guarantee you we have (plus a lot that's not obvious). We don't want to limit anyone, so if I find something that will help someone tune, I add it. We'd rather test on our shop cars so if something goes wrong, we pay for it... not you.

    PTF, Terry, and others have helped us with testing and when something is promising, it gets added.

    The whole "Independence Day" release is lost on me. We openly give OTS maps as bases for tuning and give ATR for free with an AP... I don't see how we oppress anyone.
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  21. #46
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    Apparently, Rombinhood helped develop the flash protocol that the JZW flash tune uses and had already field tested it:

    http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...ght=jzwbmw.com

    Good eye. Yes, my team and I helped develop the N54 flash protocol for the company that manufactures the device that JZW uses. We actually field tested that device early this year before it was even available to the public.
    So this doesn't appear to be some strange day where an apple fell onto his head and he had an epiphany. Very much so premeditated. I also find it strange that Shiv replies to rombinhoods original thread which is at 3am for both of them, and he also sends him a pm, and makes a post in less than 3 minutes from the original post. At 3am in the morning! lol. Sounds about enough time to send and receive a text that said something like this, "The post is up". These guys act like it was some new idea, this project has been cooking for a while it seems.


    EDIT: Looks like he got rid of the open source aspect. I now have nothing to complain about.
    I also believe that the term "open source" is bothering some people who feel that it misrepresents the nature of this product. I do not want to get into any conflict with anything, on any forum, about anything. So I will erase any references to "open source" just to keep things peaceful. The name of the product will still remain "OpenFlash" simply because the ROM editing process is just that, open (ie, not encrypted).

    Me:
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    Last edited by klipseracer; 07-03-2013 at 08:58 PM.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Well, no disrespect to the developer as he clearly has put a lot of work in this. But I for one am seriously disappointed. Looks to be a Cobb knock off. Click here to enlarge
    Terry, I love my JB4, but you for one should see the problematic nature of your comment.

  23. #48
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    Lol
    Here's my post that I was referring to. I'm actually pretty dissapointed to be right about this Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rader1 Click here to enlarge
    This is just my personal opinion, atm atleast, but this "open source" flashing system is just being developed as a means for Shiv to get the PROcede flash distributed with as little effort and money of his own involved as possible.

    Does anyone really buy the story Robimhood(odd name, don't you think?) told about meeting Shiv back in the day and now he's involved with the N54 he just so happened to start a thread/project on e90 that Shiv jumped in and volunteered a lot information for at the same time the PROcede flash is in desperate need of an at home flashing solution?
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  24. #49
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SingDonald Click here to enlarge
    Terry, I love my JB4, but you for one should see the problematic nature of your comment.
    Glad to hear you enjoy the JB4. If you knew the actual product histories you'd probably feel differently.

    The procede was originally a device purchased from Haltech and fitted with an N54 harness and maps by Vishnu. Then marketed as a new product. One of many such similar boxes made by Haltech, Unichip, ChipTorque, AEM, etc. Actually very similar to this new "flash device" which is an existing box being fitted with N54 read/write software and marketed as a new product.

    The JB3/JB4 on the other hand was a ground up development (hardware & software) that has almost nothing in common from a hardware or software perspective with the architecture of the Haltech or other existing tuner boxes. To the point that it was/is widely "mocked" by Shiv & Co as unworkable. Yet it continues to be one of the most popular tunes out with many unique features.

    Now if it's your perspective that providing a tune in a piggyback format with logging and map switching is a copy because it's been done for decades on this and countless previous platforms, then it's a reasonable point. But we've not claimed to invent the piggyback tune here. Simply adapt it nicely to the BMW turbo platforms.

    This new flash device appears to me to be a copy in terms of form & function of the existing Cobb N54 product. I was hoping for a different form. e.g. a USB<>CAN cable with true open source software. I guess we will all just have to keep waiting for it.
    Last edited by Terry@BMS; 07-03-2013 at 09:32 PM.
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  25. #50
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    How much of the flashing protocol is embedded into the pc software and how much is done by the hand held? I dont see why we dont use this as an opportunity to get basic flashing functionality with a $100 cable and use our netbooks as the hand held. Does anyone have the jzw software?
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