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  1. #226
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by jpsimon Click here to enlarge
    Yeah I've been flashed with it for a little bit now, although just like before I'm only using it for fueling so I personally haven't had to change much since I just started with the OTS "backend" map. Once you've gone through the initial steps, flashing takes about 10 minutes. It sounds like they're working on a method to flash only specific changed tables to drastically speed things up but that's not here yet.
    Have you noticed any major differences in the tables available to modify from what's in ATR? I'm genuinely curious about this but this part has been talked about but not really talked about.
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    MOTIV750, MOTIV P-1000 PI, MOTIV/FUEL-IT! low pressure fuel system, AEM EMS/COBB AP, Aquamist HFS-3, ETS FMIC, SPEC stage 3+ clutch/SS flywheel, BC Racing coilovers and VMR wheels wrapped in Hankook RS3s.

  2. #227
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Deleting Cobb's posts now? They're playing with fire.
    They deleted several of my posts in the original thread as well. Of course by deleting a few and leaving others, it takes things completely out of context... funny how that happens. Its ok, I stick to our own threads and I just accept the fact that there's not much reason posting elsewhere on that forum.

    By the way, our price is due to the amount of reverse engineering, the software we built and maintain, customer support, plus the AP which we design and manufacture. They have a pre-existing device, free software available online, and the tables were all "given" to the project. If you look at the overall scope, they probably have a much, much better profit margin than we do I'm sure.

    Kinda like buying an Ebay knockoff manifold... of course its cheaper if you didn't have to develop it.

    Regardless, its another option. I'm sure a lot of potential customers will see that a cheap initial cost may not be as important as other factors to be considered. I'm also sure others just want a cheap flash device... it is what it is.
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  3. #228
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Josh@Cobb Click here to enlarge
    They deleted several of my posts in the original thread as well. Of course by deleting a few and leaving others, it takes things completely out of context... funny how that happens. Its ok, I stick to our own threads and I just accept the fact that there's not much reason posting elsewhere on that forum.
    Money talks. Use it to your advantage. That's all that forum is about anyway.
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  4. #229
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    It never seemed to matter what level of sponsor we were. Gold, Silver, Platinum, Unobtanium...
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  5. #230
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    Jeez... guys, you know you can edit axis points in ATR, right?? I don't know why people in that thread don't realize this.
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  6. #231
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rader1 Click here to enlarge
    Have you noticed any major differences in the tables available to modify from what's in ATR? I'm genuinely curious about this but this part has been talked about but not really talked about.
    I can't comment about those specifics until the release which is coming up very soon - then everything will be known and can be dissected till fingers bleed! The ultimate goal is to have every table documented and available for editing.
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  7. #232
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Josh@Cobb Click here to enlarge
    It never seemed to matter what level of sponsor we were. Gold, Silver, Platinum, Unobtanium...
    Try level none and see their tune change. Get the pun?
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  8. #233
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Try level none and see their tune change. Get the pun?
    LOL
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  9. #234
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by jpsimon Click here to enlarge
    I can't comment about those specifics until the release which is coming up very soon - then everything will be known and can be dissected till fingers bleed! The ultimate goal is to have every table documented and available for editing.
    Fair enoughClick here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Josh@Cobb Click here to enlarge
    Jeez... guys, you know you can edit axis points in ATR, right?? I don't know why people in that thread don't realize this.
    The guys over on e90 are just talking out their asses. I bet that as soon as this is in open release all the "expert tuners" that are talking about how they've "just been waiting for real tuner software" to be available all get VERY quiet very quickly.

    @Sticky is there anyway to make the "ATR discussion" sticky only viewable to BB members? No point in giving those guys a wealth of information and a good start with info(we've worked on for months to figure out) without at least attracting some new members to share what they learn.
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    MOTIV750, MOTIV P-1000 PI, MOTIV/FUEL-IT! low pressure fuel system, AEM EMS/COBB AP, Aquamist HFS-3, ETS FMIC, SPEC stage 3+ clutch/SS flywheel, BC Racing coilovers and VMR wheels wrapped in Hankook RS3s.

  10. #235
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rader1 Click here to enlarge
    is there anyway to make the "ATR discussion" sticky only viewable to BB members? No point in giving those guys a wealth of information and a good start with info(we've worked on for months to figure out) without at least attracting some new members to share what they learn.
    Guests have to register after a certain amount of views so I'd say we're pretty good on that unless I were to make it members only completely which would be overkill I think.
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  11. #236
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    It all comes down to whether or not the weekend warriors with the know-how feel like investing their time into this without any paycheck.

    There's not much "feel good community effort" surrounding this thing, so I can understand how some people would be turned off.


    maybe the guys in russia will come up with something. they're always doing crazy stuff over there
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  12. #237
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    3 out of 3 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    is it me or does Shiv have a bit too much input on a product he has no financial interest in? Click here to enlarge

  13. #238
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge
    is it me or does Shiv have a bit too much input on a product he has no financial interest in? Click here to enlarge
    You bet his ass he provided X for Y. I don't see why many others wouldn't do the same, its just how he does things thats a bit... Interesting. There is a reason all the conspiracy theories follow him. He opens the door to that thought process.

  14. #239
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge
    is it me or does Shiv have a bit too much input on a product he has no financial interest in? Click here to enlarge
    well he did say he's a dealer for the device, and that most of the initial batch are going to vishnu
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  15. #240
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    how about some bimmerboost crowd funding to crack this device when it is released?

    i'd invest in that cause
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  16. #241
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by tofu Click here to enlarge
    how about some bimmerboost crowd funding to crack this device when it is released?

    i'd invest in that cause
    We need to uncover the communication protocol. So my first question, is where does the obd port connect to? Does it go right to the DME or does it go to some other can/junction box then to the DME?

  17. #242
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    I don't know about that but it would be nice to see an actual open source read/write flash program made using the $30 eBay cables. I've written similar programs in the past but am stretched thin lately. Maybe if Shiv and RomBinHood rile me up a bit I'll get motivated to work on something like that... Click here to enlarge
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  18. #243
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    Now we are talking. Stop the whining and everyone who can contribute should contribute.

  19. #244
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    I don't know about that but it would be nice to see an actual open source read/write flash program made using the $30 eBay cables.
    Thats the point of my question, I'm trying to figure out where exactly that OBD port goes and exactly what device/component/controller we are communicating with.

  20. #245
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    edited

  21. #246
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by klipseracer Click here to enlarge
    Thats the point of my question, I'm trying to figure out where exactly that OBD port goes and exactly what device/component/controller we are communicating with. What about the BT Tool software? Do you think that the communication protocol is reversible from that software? I always thought about hacking that since it is VIN locked and I have a BT cable just laying around...
    It's all just basic I/O stuff. You'd take an existing tool that does a flash/write, connect a Y cable to it, and record everything sent and received. From that you can reverse out what it's doing to initiate the write, how the blocks of the DME code and checksum are sent, etc. If we're talking about something that is CAN only (e.g 2008+ only) then I imagine it would not be an overly difficult project. Frankly surprised no one has done it yet as the tools to do it are all out there and readily available.
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  22. #247
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    oh come on terry, u create a terry tune to combat a 1500 dollar procede u can make our crappy CAN cables write the DME. Click here to enlarge

  23. #248
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    It's all just basic I/O stuff. You'd take an existing tool that does a flash/write, connect a Y cable to it, and record everything sent and received. From that you can reverse out what it's doing to initiate the write, how the blocks of the DME code and checksum are sent, etc. If we're talking about something that is CAN only (e.g 2008+ only) then I imagine it would not be an overly difficult project. Frankly surprised no one has done it yet as the tools to do it are all out there and readily available.
    Well I think sniffing the packets sent back and forth, and I have quite extensive experience doing this for discovering the communication protocol for private game servers. I've written a private server for a game called Phantasy Star Online for PC/Dreamcast/GC. This was difficult because the Sega servers went down and had to go off of Ethereal(Wireshark) packet logs that already existed. I have a lot of winsock experience as well but this is more of a serial type communication layer so there will be a lot for me to learn here... If a simple 'Y' as you put it, allows one to decipher the protocol, this should be pretty simple, relatively speaking. Games nowadays encrypt that packet data with some kind of encryption(something like RSA or streaming equivalent), in my case it was an RC4 streaming cipher encrypted off an 8 byte key sent in the welcome packet and the data was different every time you sniffed the traffic. So this is hope inspiring if its not actually encrypted between the obd port and wherever that is going.

  24. #249
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge
    oh come on terry, u create a terry tune to combat a 1500 dollar procede u can make our crappy CAN cables write the DME. Click here to enlarge
    To be candid I know how to do it but I don't really want to be *the one* to do this. I sent an email over to Duram @ BT though. He has done read/writes with the BT cable before. If he would add this DME read/write function it would bring a new level of demand to the cable. I'd encourage anyone interested in seeing this happen also bombard him with requests so he can see the demand is really there for it.
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  25. #250
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    That thread has become a joke. How can it be said that this tuning tablet is better than Cobb when there are no proven results? Shiv is really pushing the value of that thing and encouraging people to make some money by selling the Cobb! It must be his personal vendetta against them since they took so much of his market share.

    I am curious as to what shiv's cut of the profit from selling the tuning tablet. He doesn't do anything for free. He offered assistance to robimhood since he needs a flash device for his own product. He defended the price and selling the product as well.

    Lastly, robimhood's name came from Robin Hood which was clever at the time. Now, it should really be Robin Hood since he robbing the consumer by not offering an open source product and profiting from others work.

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