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  1. #1
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    cp-e Standback review

    So I took the plunge this weekend and bought the cp-e standback. I had an arrangement with them in that they would do the install and tune for my car for free if I bought the product. They want to get more people using the standback to get the word out. Well let me tell you, it’s awesome. Now I’ve never tried the JB3 or the PROcede and I know they have the highest horsepower, fastest times, etc. That’s not really what I’m looking for. I went with cp-e because everything they said made sense. They could explain how the adjusted timing and fuel and boost. I could choose what I was comfortable with their tuner (Jason from P3 Performance) could make it as aggressive or conservative as I wanted. After long discussions and looking at the other tunes I settled on 12psi as my target boost. Because I wanted to be super careful and he knew that, Jason retarded the timing by two degrees and added fuel to make sure I wasn’t running too lean. This is my daily driver and while I’m sure I’ll want more soon, I’m exceedingly uncomfortable pushing my motor to places it wasn’t designed to go without taking care to mitigate the hazards. Therefore my power numbers aren’t going to be spectacular – though it sure feels like it – but I’m comfortable that my car is safe. This is the beauty of the standback in that it’s completely customizable to the user’s car and intentions. If you want to crank the boost and advance the timing you can do so to your own specifications.

    Click here to enlarge

    My stock numbers were 261whp/264 ft-lbs. With the extra boost, negative 2 deg of timing, and a full point richer, my tuned numbers were 304 whp/317 ft-lbs. That’s 33 whp and 53 ft-lbs more torque over what I had going in. The difference in driving is huge. I’m now addicted and understand all the talk about tunes. The car just pulls and pulls and I’ve got to be a lot more careful. It is also extremely smooth and I don’t get any weird feeling of hesitation or slowing. It’s just constant force pushing me back in the seat. I even hit the rev limiter once because I was focused on the road and waiting to feel that inevitable slowing feeling as the car approaches redline. With the standback, it’s just gone. Jason pulled a log from the last run on the dyno to show me the throttle position. He explained that keeping it open was vital to making power and conserving turbo life, i.e. “it’s hard to make 12psi behind a closed throttle plate.” He said that’s why it pulls so consistently.

    Click here to enlarge

    One issue with the numbers that Jason from P3 explained is that horsepower is actually calculated from torque and rpm. He said this was important because we used roller speed to estimate rpm on the dyno rather than using their obdii hookup. Apparently it was on the fritz or had difficulty connecting to the bmw. In any case, the car revved to 7000 but when we set the dyno to stop at that point, it would never get there. We had to put the stop point to 6500 so it would stop taking data. If you do the calculation for horsepower with the final torque number corresponding to 7000 the horsepower at the end of the run is 326. This sure sounds better but he also explained that it’s the difference in both runs that matters and not the final numbers. P3 has a mustang dyno that apparently reads very low. I’m interested in finding a more common dynojet to see how it compares.

    The car feels amazing. Jason explained that the car would be smoother because the throttle plate was completely open throughout the run. He said the throttle opens and closes under stock control to help modulate the torque, boost, fuel, etc. The cp-e standback prevents that throttle modulation keeping it open full for the duration of the run.

    This is already way to long but in a future post I’ll report on my experience at cp-e. The place is incredible and the owners are great. Their attention to quality and detail is exactly what I want and more than I expected in several instances. What a great experience.
    Last edited by boom; 02-05-2010 at 09:45 AM.

  2. #2
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    I have no idea who you are but you are posting freaking great info.

    Additionally, your attachments are not showing, what dimension are they?

  3. #3
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    Oh and how much does this standback cost and on what kind of fuel did you dyno?

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    The detail in the review is very helpful, so I agree with Sticky. Sometimes all folks say is "I like it" so thanks!

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    as with everyone, its all seems great, except for this one line you had: "In any case, the car revved to 7000 but when we set the dyno to stop at that point, it would never get there. We had to put the stop point to 6500 so it would stop taking data. If you do the calculation for horsepower with the final torque number corresponding to 7000 the horsepower at the end of the run is 326." in our cars, our stock turbos die out long before redline, ie: run out of breath. So that number you calculated is highly unlikely. 6500 revs is about where most tunes these days start dropping off the boost rapdily. I would be very curious to see that the standback holds stock turbo boost allll the way to 7k rpm.

    for reference, I set my BMW performance steering wheel to light up to shift at 6500, because I have stock turbos, and going past that just loses power, as seen on the boost gauge and dyno runs. once I get the ASR chra's however, I will bump it back up to the stock setting of 7k, because the turbos will be breathing very well, even at redline.
    Last edited by oddjob2021; 02-05-2010 at 10:41 AM.
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    2007 335i Coupe
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  6. #6
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    I think you'll be running into the rev limter. The throttle closes dramatically above 6700 rpm.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by boom Click here to enlarge
    I think you'll be running into the rev limter. The throttle closes dramatically above 6700 rpm.
    exactly what im saying, your quote is saying if you extrapolate X torque that you get Y hp at 7k, and thats not the case for this engine. however myfriend, we will see whose throttle closes above 6700 with upgraded turbos. Click here to enlarge the procede makes it so the throttle and turbos are never working against eachother
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    Cool. I'd like to run a Procede car some day and see the results... Click here to enlarge

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    Just as the procede does (but we do it in a different way) the throttle will not close with upgraded turbos. We work hand in hand with AMS and I have been with Chris over there tuning their upgraded turbos. We have full control over the throttles and how they behave. With the standback you type in the amount of boost you want to run and thats what you run. You can do it on a 30x30 map or just type in a flat curve. If I want to run 13psi till 4000 rpms and 15psi till 6000 and then bring it down to 12 by redline I can just type 13, 15, 12 in the appropriate cells and thats what I would run. We control the wastegates instead of the stock ECU.
    Custom Performance Engineering
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    .
    Last edited by boom; 02-05-2010 at 03:59 PM.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by www.cp-e.com Click here to enlarge
    Just as the procede does (but we do it in a different way) the throttle will not close with upgraded turbos. We work hand in hand with AMS and I have been with Chris over there tuning their upgraded turbos. We have full control over the throttles and how they behave. With the standback you type in the amount of boost you want to run and thats what you run. You can do it on a 30x30 map or just type in a flat curve. If I want to run 13psi till 4000 rpms and 15psi till 6000 and then bring it down to 12 by redline I can just type 13, 15, 12 in the appropriate cells and thats what I would run. We control the wastegates instead of the stock ECU.
    seems like a great user interface. im very curious to see your advancement in the N54 with AMS. its great to have 3 companies putting out stout tunes for this car, it only makes the competition more fierce Click here to enlarge
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  12. #12
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    Embedded the vid for you, works just like images.

    [ video ] [ / video ] tags, without spaces.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by www.cp-e.com Click here to enlarge
    Just as the procede does (but we do it in a different way) the throttle will not close with upgraded turbos. We work hand in hand with AMS and I have been with Chris over there tuning their upgraded turbos. We have full control over the throttles and how they behave. With the standback you type in the amount of boost you want to run and thats what you run. You can do it on a 30x30 map or just type in a flat curve. If I want to run 13psi till 4000 rpms and 15psi till 6000 and then bring it down to 12 by redline I can just type 13, 15, 12 in the appropriate cells and thats what I would run. We control the wastegates instead of the stock ECU.
    This post just caught my attention. I love that you can simply choose your boost. Any link to pics, price, is it PNP?

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    I think this is a nice system for some. It offers more custom tuning options than we offer with JB3 and has a nice appeal to shade tree tuners who want to make their own maps, dyno tune, etc. We've added simple tuning adjustments to the JB3 to let customers optimize power, torque, and response but don't allow full map editing.

    On the boost control I can't say I prefer the implementation of the Standback or V4 for that matter, but there are cases where stand alone boost control can be advantageous for performance. I just think working within the confines of the factory safety systems is a better approach, even if it does take more time, because you have established and proven safety nets in place. If you can get the same response and control within those nets then its a hands down win for integrated boost control.

    One big problem with the Standback has been its price point. At $900 for pin out it competes with JB3 pin out at $349. And I feel the JB3 offers better performance and a safer solution out of the box. With the CPE you can probably get similar results but at the expense of your own tuning time.

  15. #15
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    I think this is a nice system for some. It offers more custom tuning options than we offer with JB3 and has a nice appeal to shade tree tuners who want to make their own maps, dyno tune, etc. We've added simple tuning adjustments to the JB3 to let customers optimize power, torque, and response but don't allow full map editing.

    On the boost control I can't say I prefer the implementation of the Standback or V4 for that matter, but there are cases where stand alone boost control can be advantageous for performance. I just think working within the confines of the factory safety systems is a better approach, even if it does take more time, because you have established and proven safety nets in place. If you can get the same response and control within those nets then its a hands down win for integrated boost control.

    One big problem with the Standback has been its price point. At $900 for pin out it competes with JB3 pin out at $349. And I feel the JB3 offers better performance and a safer solution out of the box. With the CPE you can probably get similar results but at the expense of your own tuning time.
    Price point is noticeable. However the standback comes with preloaded maps to run safely. If you want to change the boost just change the boost. Everything else is preset. You can go big and do full map editing but off the bat it is ready to run just as the JB3 is.
    Custom Performance Engineering
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  16. #16
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    I think this is a nice system for some. It offers more custom tuning options than we offer with JB3 and has a nice appeal to shade tree tuners who want to make their own maps, dyno tune, etc. We've added simple tuning adjustments to the JB3 to let customers optimize power, torque, and response but don't allow full map editing.

    On the boost control I can't say I prefer the implementation of the Standback or V4 for that matter, but there are cases where stand alone boost control can be advantageous for performance. I just think working within the confines of the factory safety systems is a better approach, even if it does take more time, because you have established and proven safety nets in place. If you can get the same response and control within those nets then its a hands down win for integrated boost control.

    One big problem with the Standback has been its price point. At $900 for pin out it competes with JB3 pin out at $349. And I feel the JB3 offers better performance and a safer solution out of the box. With the CPE you can probably get similar results but at the expense of your own tuning time.
    But the Standback offers someone far more control over their maps? And someone can basically design their own maps if they desire?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fotios335i Click here to enlarge
    This post just caught my attention. I love that you can simply choose your boost. Any link to pics, price, is it PNP?
    I will be putting together full videos and walk throughs shortly. This blizzard here is really throwing a kink in my plans! We are supposed to get another 10" tomorrow which will set the all time worst winter for the mid-atlantic with over 90" i believe this winter. We are at 81 already I think.
    Custom Performance Engineering
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  18. #18
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    Good to hear! I don't think someone can go wrong either way.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    But the Standback offers someone far more control over their maps? And someone can basically design their own maps if they desire?
    If I'm reading it at face value there is no limit to the CPE mapping. It is up to the user to pick safe and continuous values, and to understand what each table does and how they interact, for example.

    Contrast that with the JB3 where we've simplified mapping down to 15 or so user fields. The user enters boost 0-100%, fuel 0-100%, response 0-100%, etc, and is simply rescaling our tables. We wanted to give users the ability to make the tune better suit their individual needs without having to learn how to tune. The system blocks you from making changes that would would be likely to cause a problem. If a tuning shop wants to make a custom map for special hardware, and some have, they are required to work with BMS directly. That map can then be saved and distributed to their customers.

  20. #20
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    If I'm reading it at face value there is no limit to the CPE mapping. It is up to the user to pick safe and continuous values, and to understand what each table does and how they interact, for example.

    Contrast that with the JB3 where we've simplified mapping down to 15 or so user fields. The user enters boost 0-100%, fuel 0-100%, response 0-100%, etc, and is simply rescaling our tables. We wanted to give users the ability to make the tune better suit their individual needs without having to learn how to tune. The system blocks you from making changes that would would be likely to cause a problem. If a tuning shop wants to make a custom map for special hardware, and some have, they are required to work with BMS directly. That map can then be saved and distributed to their customers.
    What you are saying makes sense but it seems to be as you stated regarding offering custom options. If someone wants more complete control or is the kind of person that is their own mechanic, the Standback has great appeal. Additionally, if someone were to go to upgraded turbos the standback would be all they need, correct?

    The JB3 seems to be a better value solution for someone who wants to set it and forget it. There are options with it of course, but these products seem to target two different levels of enthusiast with different levels of a learning curve and depth.

  21. #21
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    What you are saying makes sense but it seems to be as you stated regarding offering custom options. If someone wants more complete control or is the kind of person that is their own mechanic, the Standback has great appeal. Additionally, if someone were to go to upgraded turbos the standback would be all they need, correct?

    The JB3 seems to be a better value solution for someone who wants to set it and forget it. There are options with it of course, but these products seem to target two different levels of enthusiast with different levels of a learning curve and depth.
    Both are great options and probably appeal to different crowds. The JB3 will have no problem handing upgraded turbos. I say will because no vendor has actually showed up here with larger turbos yet for us to tune. Although many have said they will. So we'll develop some large turbo firmware when the time comes.

    Also don't forget the JB3 has proven its all out performance many times over, holding most of the track and dyno records. So it's by no means an entry level only product. Just doesn't give the user all the custom options the CPE does. Really when someone buys a JB3 they are in part paying for the thousands of hours we've spent tuning it. Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Both are great options and probably appeal to different crowds. The JB3 will have no problem handing upgraded turbos. I say will because no vendor has actually showed up here with larger turbos yet for us to tune. Although many have said they will. So we'll develop some large turbo firmware when the time comes.

    Also don't forget the JB3 has proven its all out performance many times over, holding most of the track and dyno records. So it's by no means an entry level only product. Just doesn't give the user all the custom options the CPE does. Really when someone buys a JB3 they are in part paying for the thousands of hours we've spent tuning it. Click here to enlarge
    No one is going to disagree with the track and dyno records but you have a larger sample size Click here to enlarge

    Seems like when someone buys the Standback they are paying to spend hours tuning Click here to enlarge

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    Paying to tune? i can dial in ANY x35 car in 30 min on your local highway if your willing to go to 110mph. And i do it free. Its not like you have to start from scratch and figure out the car. The sb comes with preloaded maps that are tame, too tame for me. You can either be happy and run it, or turn it up when you want to run someone. I have run forum member jpslick multiple times. He was on map 7 i was at 14.5psi max boost, the outcome was nose and nose to 155. Some runs he would pull, others I would pull. Ive been running him on various firmware maps of the standback to the various firmware updates of the jb3. Put it this way, I am one of cpe's test cars, If i can't break it, get angry at it, or think its a complete pos, you wont either lol.

    Aslo I worked with Terry, and ran his tune for a couple of mods, and its very nice. No complaints, my dyno was a bit wavey but it is what it is. Terry knows who I am and who I work with and he treated me just like any other customer. Btwn the simplicity of his tune and his insane support, you really can't go wrong if you're the type who doesnt care about doing it yourself. Ive also run the procede v4, and all the smoothness talk simply feels like a touchy throttle lol. Power wise it feels the same. It has more options, controls things different ect ect, in essence i like it as well, Shivs customer support however cannot match Terrys. The way I see it, if im gonig to push the SB and give it xyz reviews, I need to know what I am comparing it too.
    Last edited by Laloosh; 02-08-2010 at 05:19 PM.

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    These things are so cheap in the big scheme of things its easy to own and try all three. I'd suggest that for anyone. Would love to see what you think of our new 2.0 software with an 18 ohm board at some point in the future. Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Laloosh Click here to enlarge
    Paying to tune? i can dial in ANY x35 car in 30 min on your local highway if your willing to go to 110mph. And i do it free. Its not like you have to start from scratch and figure out the car. The sb comes with preloaded maps that are tame, too tame for me. You can either be happy and run it, or turn it up when you want to run someone. I have run forum member jpslick multiple times. He was on map 7 i was at 14.5psi max boost, the outcome was nose and nose to 155. Some runs he would pull, others I would pull. Ive been running him on various firmware maps of the standback to the various firmware updates of the jb3. Put it this way, I am one of cpe's test cars, If i can't break it, get angry at it, or think its a complete pos, you wont either lol.

    Aslo I worked with Terry, and ran his tune for a couple of mods, and its very nice. No complaints, my dyno was a bit wavey but it is what it is. Terry knows who I am and who I work with and he treated me just like any other customer. Btwn the simplicity of his tune and his insane support, you really can't go wrong if you're the type who doesnt care about doing it yourself. Ive also run the procede v4, and all the smoothness talk simply feels like a touchy throttle lol. Power wise it feels the same. It has more options, controls things different ect ect, in essence i like it as well, Shivs customer support however cannot match Terrys. The way I see it, if im gonig to push the SB and give it xyz reviews, I need to know what I am comparing it too.
    I think you misunderstood. To be clear, paying in order to have far more control over the tuning. You can spend hours doing it if you want, or not, up to you, but you have that choice. Make sense?

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