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  1. #101
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by alex@ABRhouston Click here to enlarge
    I would add stainless steel orings as well to the list for major boost.
    we are toying around with grinding the crank, and putting some heavy duty bearings in it, then re-nitrating it, since we have a crank grinder and the technology to do so.....
    what are orings? piston rings?
    boop

  2. #102
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mycoupe Click here to enlarge
    Correct me if I am wrong, but I remember people having issues from time to time switching to closed deck blocks with overheating because there was no longer the same surface area for engine coolant to transfer heat?
    is a problem you can have

    have to balance strength and potential power with longevity/drivability/long term peak power.
    boop

  3. #103
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mycoupe Click here to enlarge
    Correct me if I am wrong, but I remember people having issues from time to time switching to closed deck blocks with overheating because there was no longer the same surface area for engine coolant to transfer heat?
    Every engine is different when it comes to this. I've got limited exposure as it's an extreme step for people trying to run power levels higher than the block was designed for. I'm sure some engines that might be a problem but if the sleeves are designed correctly it should minimize that. The few Honda's and G/Z's I've seen with this didn't seem to have any issues but the G/Z's had heat issues with everything else stuffing a greddy kit in a little engine bay that wasn't designed for that much heat.
    2008 135i - Cobb AP, JB4 G5 w/2Step&FSB, MS DP's, Berk street exhaust, AMS IC, VTT Inlets, UR Intake, ER CP w/Tial BOV, Spec 3+ & Steel FW, CDV delete, Quaife LSD, DSS Axles, M3 control arms, M3 rear SF bushings, M3 Trans bushings, SS brake lines. Pics

  4. #104
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    what are orings? piston rings?
    Oringing the block is a trick. It goes on the deck of the block (or the cylinder head in some cases), the head gasket sits on top of it, then the cylinder head smashes the head gasket fire ring into oring, pinching it. Ultra boost levels are now available. I was having issues with a cometic ******ing junk head gasket that leaked combustion pressures over 18psi.
    I pulled the head, and installed .035 stainless wire onto the head via the Bridgeport. Reinstalled on a factory elring head gasket, its holding 28-30psi with no signs of leaking. BIG turbo cars in the 30+psi range normally do this, as par for the course.
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  5. #105
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    3 out of 3 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    I have a 2jz toyota engine sitting on an engine stand here lol
    i have a tore-apart N54 at the machine shop.
    maybe I need to see if they can have some baby makin love in the parts room lol
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  6. #106
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bigdnno98 Click here to enlarge
    Everything else should be off the shelf
    ARP studs
    ACL race bearings
    Head gasket (whichever one Dzenno used)
    id def port and polish like Dzenno ddid while I was in the head I'd do
    oversized incolnel vvalves
    springs and retainers
    cams (prob custom grind)
    ARP Studs - not available (ARP said they won't make them unless it is a huge batch - n54 has 2 differently sized head bolts in its configuration)

    Oversized Valves - VAC has them available

    Springs and Retainers - Nobody has them available (more than one company [including some of the big guys] have looked into this. The springs are very small on the N54 so there isn't any off the shelf stuff to modify)

    Cams - VAC has them available (but only when someone provides their specifications)

  7. #107
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by alex@ABRhouston Click here to enlarge
    Oringing the block is a trick. It goes on the deck of the block (or the cylinder head in some cases), the head gasket sits on top of it, then the cylinder head smashes the head gasket fire ring into oring, pinching it. Ultra boost levels are now available. I was having issues with a cometic ******ing junk head gasket that leaked combustion pressures over 18psi.
    I pulled the head, and installed .035 stainless wire onto the head via the Bridgeport. Reinstalled on a factory elring head gasket, its holding 28-30psi with no signs of leaking. BIG turbo cars in the 30+psi range normally do this, as par for the course.
    I struggled with the decision to oring my 4G64 block or not. Buscher Racing and AMS oring their racing motors but my tuner English Racing said it was unnecessary for my power goal of 700AWHP. I went with a cometic head gasket. Hopefully I don't have issues. I'm not looking to push more than 34psi. If it leaks ill burn this damn car to the ground. Oringing is def recommended on +700HP motor. Not really a down side except once oringed always oringed that's why it's better to do the block. If your head warps I'd say its prob junk since I'm not sure it can be machined back straight after oringing. Correct me if I'm wrong here.
    2011 335is DCT, moving to Italy, looking for new car friends Click here to enlarge

  8. #108
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by GeorgiaTech335Coupe Click here to enlarge
    ARP Studs - not available (ARP said they won't make them unless it is a huge batch - n54 has 2 differently sized head bolts in its configuration)

    Oversized Valves - VAC has them available

    Springs and Retainers - Nobody has them available (more than one company [including some of the big guys] have looked into this. The springs are very small on the N54 so there isn't any off the shelf stuff to modify)

    Cams - VAC has them available (but only when someone provides their specifications)
    Are there any sizes that are close? I've seen a few shops that slightly increased the diameter (material allowing) of the bolt holes and/or shortened the studs in order to get to a stronger solution.
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  9. #109
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90SoFlo Click here to enlarge
    You're so helpful. Seriously. Top 5 forum members currently.
    Thanks for your kind words sir. I'm a BMW fanatic that just made a poor decision to stray but will be back soon. This is the best car community I've been a part of, that's why I'm here and not on Evo forums.
    2011 335is DCT, moving to Italy, looking for new car friends Click here to enlarge

  10. #110
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    I sure we can "standardize" them. I put S54 head studs in S52 blocks, since they are bigger diameter and have better clamping force.
    i would want to timecert the headstud threads anyways to help not rip the threads out.

    then (finally) ARP made arp2000 material S52 studs..... But I still like putting S54 studs since they are bigger.
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  11. #111
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bigdnno98 Click here to enlarge
    Thanks for your kind words sir. I'm a BMW fanatic that just made a poor decision to stray but will be back soon. This is the best car community I've been a part of, that's why I'm here and not on Evo forums.
    Just admit it, you are here for sticky Click here to enlarge

    haha




  12. #112
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by GeorgiaTech335Coupe Click here to enlarge
    ARP Studs - not available (ARP said they won't make them unless it is a huge batch - n54 has 2 differently sized head bolts in its configuration)

    Oversized Valves - VAC has them available

    Springs and Retainers - Nobody has them available (more than one company [including some of the big guys] have looked into this. The springs are very small on the N54 so there isn't any off the shelf stuff to modify)

    Cams - VAC has them available (but only when someone provides their specifications)
    A lot of this stuff can be made custom for not a lot of extra cost. Just have to find the right place.
    2011 335is DCT, moving to Italy, looking for new car friends Click here to enlarge

  13. #113
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by brusk Click here to enlarge
    Are there any sizes that are close? I've seen a few shops that slightly increased the diameter (material allowing) of the bolt holes and/or shortened the studs in order to get to a stronger solution.
    This.
    2011 335is DCT, moving to Italy, looking for new car friends Click here to enlarge

  14. #114
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by alex@ABRhouston Click here to enlarge
    I sure we can "standardize" them. I put S54 head studs in S52 blocks, since they are bigger diameter and have better clamping force.
    i would want to timecert the headstud threads anyways to help not rip the threads out.

    then (finally) ARP made arp2000 material S52 studs..... But I still like putting S54 studs since they are bigger.
    I think this is a good idea. Timecerts work great... saved many a northstar with those. An engineers healing coil.

  15. #115
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by alex@ABRhouston Click here to enlarge
    I sure we can "standardize" them. I put S54 head studs in S52 blocks, since they are bigger diameter and have better clamping force.
    i would want to timecert the headstud threads anyways to help not rip the threads out.

    then (finally) ARP made arp2000 material S52 studs..... But I still like putting S54 studs since they are bigger.
    Sir, you make me want to move to Houston. And I hate Texas Click here to enlarge
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  16. #116
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    Come on down and learn to sweat Click here to enlarge
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  17. #117
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by brusk Click here to enlarge
    I've seen a few shops that slightly increased the diameter (material allowing) of the bolt holes and/or shortened the studs in order to get to a stronger solution.
    This is common on LS engines. When running high boost they tend to "lift" the heads. In fact that's the reason people run aftermarket blocks, a factory iron block is plenty strong to make just about any power you want but there isn't sufficient clamping force to hold the head down. So you can either get an aftermarket block with additional bolt holes or just upsize the block to use 1/2" studs.

    As far as the N54 goes, IMHO stroking it isn't really going to be very beneficial. Just look at similar displacement/design engines and see what they're doing. Most guys that stroke a 2JZ don't see much peak power gains they see an increase in mid-range torque, which makes sense when you think about what happens to the geometry of the rotating assembly when you lengthen the crank throw. If the stock sleeves can take it then I say just throw more boost at lol
    Click here to enlarge
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  18. #118
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rader1 Click here to enlarge
    This is common on LS engines. When running high boost they tend to "lift" the heads. In fact that's the reason people run aftermarket blocks, a factory iron block is plenty strong to make just about any power you want but there isn't sufficient clamping force to hold the head down. So you can either get an aftermarket block with additional bolt holes or just upsize the block to use 1/2" studs.

    As far as the N54 goes, IMHO stroking it isn't really going to be very beneficial. Just look at similar displacement/design engines and see what they're doing. Most guys that stroke a 2JZ don't see much peak power gains they see an increase in mid-range torque, which makes sense when you think about what happens to the geometry of the rotating assembly when you lengthen the crank throw. If the stock sleeves can take it then I say just throw more boost at lol
    Agreed. We still don't know what the weakest part of the motor is yet nor what the stock block can handle. I'm betting with upgraded internals this stock block will be able to handle +900HP.
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  19. #119
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    I don't see the point of building a motor when we don't know what the weakest components are. Head work obviously can't hurt if done correctly.

  20. #120
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    Why not use block filler and some type of insert, like a wax plug to melt out, or something removable, so you can still allow water passage and flow......
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  21. #121
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Torgus Click here to enlarge
    I don't see the point of building a motor when we don't know what the weakest components are. Head work obviously can't hurt if done correctly.

    Im going to bet on a PROPERLY TUNED CAR (no detonation!) the rods will start to bow, the head gasket pops, or the rings touch lifting the top of the pistons off.
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  22. #122
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by alex@ABRhouston Click here to enlarge
    Im going to bet on a PROPERLY TUNED CAR (no detonation!) the rods will start to bow, the head gasket pops, or the rings touch lifting the top of the pistons off.
    At power levels we have yet to achieve, wouldn't you agree?

    The way I see it is you build a block for reliability reasons. The stock block is very reliable so far and we don't know what power levels it lets go at and what lets go. So why build a block?

  23. #123
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    Because manufacturer variances on stock engines vary incredibly.
    and your correct, we have yet to see what is the Achilles heel of this engine internally. We all know what S52 and S54's have for weak spots, now its just the next engine.
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  24. #124
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by alex@ABRhouston Click here to enlarge
    Because manufacturer variances on stock engines vary incredibly.
    True, but I don't believe this has been shown to be the case with the N54.

    I hate to bring up the 2jz but on stock internals people run 700whp. If we can do the same we are all VERY fortunate.

  25. #125
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    Totally. But in the same breath, a stock S52 will handle 650hp before letting go. ICS showed that.
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