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  1. #51
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    BMW themselves took it to 10k in testing. VAC destroked one recently with a 3.5 liter crank and who knows how high they are revving but it's more than any N54 ever will.
    How often do people drive above 7k RPMs on the streets?




  2. #52
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90SoFlo Click here to enlarge
    How often do people drive above 7k RPMs on the streets?
    About as often as you take your N54 over 4.5k? Only when you're looking for an adrenaline rush, making a pull or showing off
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  3. #53
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90SoFlo Click here to enlarge
    How often do people drive above 7k RPMs on the streets?
    How often are people at 7k rpm on the streets? Depends on the driver, conditions, etc.
    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale: http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

  4. #54
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    BMW themselves took it to 10k in testing. VAC destroked one recently with a 3.5 liter crank and who knows how high they are revving but it's more than any N54 ever will.
    that's pretty nuts

    the 3.5 would be super interesting to see.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    As I stated a while ago. It's no contest and this helps the S65 make up for its displacement.
    yeah, from an engineering standpoint sure.
    boop

  5. #55
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    Has anyone taken the second derivative to find the acceleration of the piston? Would be interesting to see with the data set in this thread.
    2008 BSM 335i coupe - JB4, BMS intake, meth : Weekend warrior.

  6. #56
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    God you guys are mathing so hard its making me all hot and bothered.
    Click here to enlarge
    471whp on E85

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    Most people measure piston speed though by looking at the mean/average. 3 o' clock and 9 o' clock are the two places that piston speed will "generally" be the highest - at this point, it comes down to stroke length, crank pin angle, etc... The longer the rod is, the less force at TDC...

    I am just not sure how this practical/feasible it would be to obtain this information needed to measure this correctly. It can be described by math, but mean/averages are always good for general purposes.

    I guess it makes sense to look at max/min, but then you have to toss in weight to actually factor in anything that matters (gs/forces). I think this is why mean is used as a general term to relate to engine speed. IDK if that helped at all.

  8. #58
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    I think I posted this before somewhere - but this video is amazing:

    That's the 3.5 liter VAC S54 with straight cut gears. Basically a race car for the street - ridiculously responsive/high revving/simply awesome.

  9. #59
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    The more I think about this, I would almost bet there is a direct correlation between piston dwell and maximum acceleration of the piston - but am too tired to read/think about it. This guy explains most of what has been said: http://ftlracing.com/rsratio.htm

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Ammonia Click here to enlarge
    God you guys are mathing so hard its making me all hot and bothered.
    LOL how this thread looks now:

    Click here to enlarge
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  11. #61
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90SoFlo Click here to enlarge
    How often do people drive above 7k RPMs on the streets?
    i would, very briefly, more days than not hah

    very... VERY briefly.
    boop

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    You would only want to bore a small amount to fit the sleeves which would then be bored so the motor could have additional rebuilds. A mm here or there of added bore doesn't outweigh leaving more material.

    Someone also is going to need to address the open deck aspect.
    Maybe like this:

    Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  13. #63
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    Interesting.......
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  14. #64
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    How often are people at 7k rpm on the streets? Depends on the driver, conditions, etc.
    I do it all the time. And it's AWESOME!
    2011 335is DCT, JB4 + MHD BEF, stage 2 LPFP, e50 + 50/50 meth, DCI, 7" FMIC, MT ET Streets when needed


  15. #65
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by csl335i Click here to enlarge
    Maybe like this:

    Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge
    That's interesting.
    2011 335is DCT, JB4 + MHD BEF, stage 2 LPFP, e50 + 50/50 meth, DCI, 7" FMIC, MT ET Streets when needed


  16. #66
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by csl335i Click here to enlarge
    Maybe like this:

    Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge
    You have peaked my interest. Do you have more details about this? Care to PM me if you do?

  17. #67
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    What are the different options for rods, pistons, bearings, etc for the N54? Are there off the shelf components?

  18. #68
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by csl335i Click here to enlarge
    Maybe like this:

    Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge
    A friend of mine and well respected enthusiast/engine builder said that the Subaru guys tried this same thing and said there hasn't been any confirmed benefit. That doesn't mean it has no benefit, just not been confirmed on the platform.

  19. #69
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Torgus Click here to enlarge
    What are the different options for rods, pistons, bearings, etc for the N54? Are there off the shelf components?
    Rods - Carillo and Arrow both have options. VAC has them available. You can get stock length or custom. These are upgrades over stock, but the stock rods are very stout though.

    Pistons - CP. You can get stock or custom compression. I think they carry stock and 9.2:1 on the shelves. But if you want any of the goodie options, you will have to wait for them to be manufactured (approx. 7 weeks). These are by far the most important upgrades for the n54.

  20. #70
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bigdnno98 Click here to enlarge
    Machining is fairly cheap until you start talking about sleeving 6 cylinders. I'd say to bore, hone, line bore, balance and polish the crank $600-700 would be normal. Double that for sleeving also.
    We have sleeved 6 cylinders in the past and its been around $2200 for all the machine work with the sleeves installed.

  21. #71
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by hpfpupgrade Click here to enlarge
    We have sleeved 6 cylinders in the past and its been around $2200 for all the machine work with the sleeves installed.
    That's a little on the expensive end. We normally get things done a lot cheaper here than most places though. I had my 4G63 hot tanked, bored, honed, line bored, decked and the crank balanced and polished for $490 at our local machine shop.
    2011 335is DCT, JB4 + MHD BEF, stage 2 LPFP, e50 + 50/50 meth, DCI, 7" FMIC, MT ET Streets when needed


  22. #72
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Those are mean piston speeds but once again the numbers are all calculated using the same piston speed formula hence accurate. Additionally, the redline is taken into account and clearly the S65's shorter stroke design is due to being designed to keep piston speeds lower as it will be revving higher.

    Go ahead and share your formula once again for peak speed...
    What he is getting at is the lateral force of a short rod vs long rod. Mean Piston Speed is used to determine flame propagation and engine longevity. Example: If you had a short rod in the S65 and extended it 10%, that would effectively give you additional rev's without the potential engine damage even though the mean piston speed increased.

    I have a great example in my personal car. My daily driver is a SRT4, it has a 101mm stroke and 87mm bore, not a very square B/S relationship. There is a ton of room to move the pin up into the piston, so we moved the pin up and extended the rod .250 of an inch. I still have a mean piston speed of 5800 but the side load and the dwell time both benefited a huge amount due to the reduction of rod angle and length. You can improve the engines longevity with a longer rod and the engine can be rev'ed higher without the fear of engine failure.

    There is a load calculation for stroke vs rod length and piston weight on the internet, it was a life saver for me (since I had been through 5 cranks and 3 complete builds with my car).

    I hope this helps.

  23. #73
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bigdnno98 Click here to enlarge
    That's a little on the expensive end. We normally get things done a lot cheaper here than most places though. I had my 4G63 hot tanked, bored, honed, line bored, decked and the crank balanced and polished for $490 at our local machine shop.
    That is super cheap!!! 4cyl engine with all the same work done is around $800 here at my cost and I spend A LOT with the machine shop.

  24. #74
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by hpfpupgrade Click here to enlarge
    That is super cheap!!! 4cyl engine with all the same work done is around $800 here at my cost and I spend A LOT with the machine shop.
    Cost of living here is pretty cheap. Costs of goods/services are proportional to our lovely cost of living.
    2011 335is DCT, JB4 + MHD BEF, stage 2 LPFP, e50 + 50/50 meth, DCI, 7" FMIC, MT ET Streets when needed


  25. #75
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by hpfpupgrade Click here to enlarge
    What he is getting at is the lateral force of a short rod vs long rod. Mean Piston Speed is used to determine flame propagation and engine longevity. Example: If you had a short rod in the S65 and extended it 10%, that would effectively give you additional rev's without the potential engine damage even though the mean piston speed increased.

    I have a great example in my personal car. My daily driver is a SRT4, it has a 101mm stroke and 87mm bore, not a very square B/S relationship. There is a ton of room to move the pin up into the piston, so we moved the pin up and extended the rod .250 of an inch. I still have a mean piston speed of 5800 but the side load and the dwell time both benefited a huge amount due to the reduction of rod angle and length. You can improve the engines longevity with a longer rod and the engine can be rev'ed higher without the fear of engine failure.

    There is a load calculation for stroke vs rod length and piston weight on the internet, it was a life saver for me (since I had been through 5 cranks and 3 complete builds with my car).

    I hope this helps.
    Exactly. I just went to an 87mm bore with 156mm rod length and moved wrist pin up 6mm. 2.4LR now Click here to enlarge
    2011 335is DCT, JB4 + MHD BEF, stage 2 LPFP, e50 + 50/50 meth, DCI, 7" FMIC, MT ET Streets when needed


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