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  1. #251
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    @Terry@BMS Mind sharing what you paid to have the motor swapped on your 135? You had it done at LTBMW correct? Thanks!

  2. #252
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    I say we have a group buy. Click here to enlarge




  3. #253
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    Engine swap GB, LOL.

  4. #254
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    5 out of 5 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    group buy? lets do it Click here to enlarge

    I know this isn't new stuff, plenty of these engines have been torn apart... but hey it fits the thread.
    Also, I don't mean to pimp my stuff in there, so @Sticky , if you want to move it- do so... just don't delete it! This took me forever to post lol
    I tore this engine apart today @ the machine shop.
    I want to apologize for the quality of the pics, normally my phone takes decent pictures, today wasn't one of those days Click here to enlarge

    A few pictures to show off I guess Click here to enlarge
    This engine had some water damage. it was a very low mileage N54 from maybe 2007? IDK somewhere around there.
    Click here to enlarge

    Just another shot of it.
    Click here to enlarge

    The engine was very clean, and from the valve gunk buildup and condition of everything, I say it had maybe 20-30K miles on it.
    Click here to enlarge

    Looking at the cam bearing ledges, these cam trays will have to be replaced, and the blocking rings updated. This must have been an early engine, and I GAURANTEE that this car also had vanos issues.
    Click here to enlarge

    This is the other cam tray. Both are junk....sigh.
    Click here to enlarge

    Head wiped clean of cams/lifters/rockers/vanos
    Click here to enlarge

    Flipped it over and knocked off the bed plate. Took measurements of stuff.....
    When asking my machinist about putting a dowl on each main bolt, he said A) it wasn't needed and B) it would be a nightmare to get the bedplate on "target" correctly.
    Click here to enlarge

    This is the front "stub" shaft that goes into the crank. This is the same piece that I believe another member here is having issues with the engine swap drama he's going thru. front of engine gets hit, this gets tweaked- bolt wobbles loose= skipped timing= bent valves= no fun.
    Click here to enlarge

    Knock the bolt loose, and this will come out (of course a little disassembly is needed on the cassette and timing chains, but I figured this wasn't a step by step picture jobby here Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge

    Yank out the cassette with chain
    Click here to enlarge


    And take out the crank. My machinist was very impressed with the crank, no added or needed work will be needed to make it "better"...... I guess we could knife edge the crank and polish it, but it isn't needed. We may toy around with grinding to a different rod journal size depending on what rod bearing and rod we go with, but its QUALITY and not needed. Return areas on the block are smoothed and polished, excellent oil return.
    Click here to enlarge


    Knocked the head off. measurements taken. secret stuff happening Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge

    popped out the pistons. SUPER BEEF rods. No wonder they can take the abuse and power people are making. full floating wrist pins and all that jazz, normal for BMW engines.
    Click here to enlarge


    Rods are beveled to remove reciprocating mass.
    Click here to enlarge

    This is a very well made, quality piston. The only reason I see needing to upgrade the rods or pistons is to do "BIG" turbo kits, you already fragged the engine, or you just want to. Im telling you, these are QUALITY made hypereutectic pistons.
    Click here to enlarge


    we also disassembled the head too and took measurements of the valves/springs/keepers.
    There is a LOT of work left behind on the cylinder heads. A lot of improvement could be gained in the ports. Even more so if bigger valves were used.



    We have some stuff in the works to make this "better", and have stuff in the works that some hard core DIY'ers could do at the house (like 4 banana scale stuff), and I think we can bring it to market cheaper than any online stuff you find so far. At least we hope!

    *But* we need some time to finalize/continue development of stud kits and other things. I'm a small shop trying to do big things- not an easy task! (I mean I'm posting this at 10:30 after working for 14 hours today lol....)



    what I DO have, is some cost figures that my machinist charges. I can take care of your engines locally; or if you want to ship it to me we can fix up your engine or exchange with one of our built engines.

    I plan on doing a full build on the two engines I have (unless someone is interested in a milder build otherwise) and will be looking to see if there will be interest in doing an exchange- your used engine for my built engine..... and continue the cycle. Installation is available as well!


    Regardless, here's some pricing, which I think is the root of this thread anyways:

    We are making a "deck plate" right now out of some beef material, to simulate the cylinder head on- it makes the cylinders more true when we bore and hone engines, as if it was assembled.
    My machinist uses all Sunnen equipment (considered the best in the industry)

    • Hone the block until "clean" (meaning cylinders are round and no taper) and/or bore out the block 225.00
    • Deck the block flat after honing 85.00
    • Balance the crank/rods/pistons/bearings 225.00
    • Competition valve job. This includes grinding valves, squaring stems, measuring and setting up spring seat pressure, new valve guide seals, proprietary competition valve seats cut 500.00
    • Surface cylinder head 80.00
    • Turn crankshaft (if needed) 100.00
    • Polish crankshaft (if needed) 45.00
    • Full port and polish on cylinder head, with stock or oversized valves. Includes above mentioned competition valve job. 1600.00


      Remember, local machine shops may charge higher or lower depending on the market- and the location. Don't beat them up about it please!
      So, that's about it. If you guys have questions, let me know. Just trying to bring some information to the thread that's useful.
    Last edited by alex@ABRhouston; 06-26-2013 at 03:19 PM.
    Click here to enlarge
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  5. #255
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by alex@ABRhouston Click here to enlarge
    Also, I don't mean to pimp my stuff in there
    Dude pimp it out hardcore it's good stuff!

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

  6. #256
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    well, ok then Click here to enlarge just making sure Im not doing it in the wrong section or whatever.

    (n00b vendor lol)
    Click here to enlarge
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  7. #257
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    @alex@ABRhouston - great info.

    A couple questions:
    1. you mention that the pistons are forged. Are you sure about that? I don't think they are by inspecting them. You might have a better trained eye than me though.

    2. Do you think +1 valves will interfere with VANOS at all?

    A lot of your observations were spot on with mine, minus the pistons.

    2.

  8. #258
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    Thanks. Ill ask again tomorrow.
    Click here to enlarge
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  9. #259
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    Ohhh awesome!

    I really like the pricing for that machine work too... $1600 for decent headwork? Noice. Going to get flow numbers?

    any chance you'd be willing to share any measurements of the valvetrain stuff, save me buying new stuff right now? Totally understand if you don't want to haha, am about to order it anyway. Just want info for the local spring specialists

    are you planning on getting a custom valvetrain setup to sell yourself? (Oversized valves etc. ?)

    the more you post the more i'm liking you haha
    boop

  10. #260
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    That ridge in the bottom of the piston skirt looks like it was formed at the boundary of two pieces of a mold. Those numbers on the side of the skirt ("42-07") look like they were formed during the casting process as well. This is all according to my untrained eye.
    Eppur si muove.

  11. #261
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    $#@! just got real.

    Awesome work going on in here!!!!
    2011 335is DCT, JB4 + MHD BEF, stage 2 LPFP, e50 + 50/50 meth, FBO, MT ET Streets when needed


  12. #262
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bigdnno98 Click here to enlarge
    $#@! just got real.

    Awesome work going on in here!!!!
    Im so happy

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by alex@ABRhouston Click here to enlarge
    group buy? lets do it
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by alex@ABRhouston Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge

    I know this isn't new stuff, plenty of these engines have been torn apart... but hey it fits the thread.
    Also, I don't mean to pimp my stuff in there, so @Sticky , if you want to move it- do so... just don't delete it! This took me forever to post lol
    I tore this engine apart today @ the machine shop.
    I want to apologize for the quality of the pics, normally my phone takes decent pictures, today wasn't one of those days Click here to enlarge

    A few pictures to show off I guess Click here to enlarge
    This engine had some water damage. it was a very low mileage N54 from maybe 2007? IDK somewhere around there.
    Click here to enlarge

    Just another shot of it.
    Click here to enlarge

    The engine was very clean, and from the valve gunk buildup and condition of everything, I say it had maybe 20-30K miles on it.
    Click here to enlarge

    Looking at the cam bearing ledges, these cam trays will have to be replaced, and the blocking rings updated. This must have been an early engine, and I GAURANTEE that this car also had vanos issues.
    Click here to enlarge

    This is the other cam tray. Both are junk....sigh.
    Click here to enlarge

    Head wiped clean of cams/lifters/rockers/vanos
    Click here to enlarge

    Flipped it over and knocked off the bed plate. Took measurements of stuff.....
    When asking my machinist about putting a dowl on each main bolt, he said A) it wasn't needed and B) it would be a nightmare to get the bedplate on "target" correctly.
    Click here to enlarge

    This is the front "stub" shaft that goes into the crank. This is the same piece that I believe another member here is having issues with the engine swap drama he's going thru. front of engine gets hit, this gets tweaked- bolt wobbles loose= skipped timing= bent valves= no fun.
    Click here to enlarge

    Knock the bolt loose, and this will come out (of course a little disassembly is needed on the cassette and timing chains, but I figured this wasn't a step by step picture jobby here Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge

    Yank out the cassette with chain
    Click here to enlarge


    And take out the crank. My machinist was very impressed with the crank, no added or needed work will be needed to make it "better"...... I guess we could knife edge the crank and polish it, but it isn't needed. We may toy around with grinding to a different rod journal size depending on what rod bearing and rod we go with, but its QUALITY and not needed. Return areas on the block are smoothed and polished, excellent oil return.
    Click here to enlarge


    Knocked the head off. measurements taken. secret stuff happening Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge

    popped out the pistons. SUPER BEEF rods. No wonder they can take the abuse and power people are making. full floating wrist pins and all that jazz, normal for BMW engines.
    Click here to enlarge


    Rods are beveled to remove reciprocating mass.
    Click here to enlarge

    This is a very well made, quality piston. The only reason I see needing to upgrade the rods or pistons is to do "BIG" turbo kits, you already fragged the engine, or you just want to. Im telling you, these are QUALITY made forged pistons, and I figured out who makes em for BMW too lol
    Click here to enlarge


    we also disassembled the head too and took measurements of the valves/springs/keepers.
    There is a LOT of work left behind on the cylinder heads. A lot of improvement could be gained in the ports. Even more so if bigger valves were used.



    We have some stuff in the works to make this "better", and have stuff in the works that some hard core DIY'ers could do at the house (like 4 banana scale stuff), and I think we can bring it to market cheaper than any online stuff you find so far. At least we hope!

    *But* we need some time to finalize/continue development of stud kits and other things. I'm a small shop trying to do big things- not an easy task! (I mean I'm posting this at 10:30 after working for 14 hours today lol....)



    what I DO have, is some cost figures that my machinist charges. I can take care of your engines locally; or if you want to ship it to me we can fix up your engine or exchange with one of our built engines.

    I plan on doing a full build on the two engines I have (unless someone is interested in a milder build otherwise) and will be looking to see if there will be interest in doing an exchange- your used engine for my built engine..... and continue the cycle. Installation is available as well!


    Regardless, here's some pricing, which I think is the root of this thread anyways:

    We are making a "deck plate" right now out of some beef material, to simulate the cylinder head on- it makes the cylinders more true when we bore and hone engines, as if it was assembled.
    My machinist uses all Sunnen equipment (considered the best in the industry)

    • Hone the block until "clean" (meaning cylinders are round and no taper) and/or bore out the block 225.00
    • Deck the block flat after honing 85.00
    • Balance the crank/rods/pistons/bearings 225.00
    • Competition valve job. This includes grinding valves, squaring stems, measuring and setting up spring seat pressure, new valve guide seals, proprietary competition valve seats cut 500.00
    • Surface cylinder head 80.00
    • Turn crankshaft (if needed) 100.00
    • Polish crankshaft (if needed) 45.00
    • Full port and polish on cylinder head, with stock or oversized valves. Includes above mentioned competition valve job. 1600.00


      Remember, local machine shops may charge higher or lower depending on the market- and the location. Don't beat them up about it please!
      So, that's about it. If you guys have questions, let me know. Just trying to bring some information to the thread that's useful.


    We need to talk




  13. #263
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    +1000HP N54s are coming sooner than later. Someone is going to need to provide a standalone EMS very soon. Has anyone contacted AEM or Haltech to see if they're working on one? @undercover how is the ProEFI coming along?
    2011 335is DCT, JB4 + MHD BEF, stage 2 LPFP, e50 + 50/50 meth, FBO, MT ET Streets when needed


  14. #264
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    I spoke with my machinist again this morning, he assures me it is a forged piston
    Click here to enlarge
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  15. #265
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by alex@ABRhouston Click here to enlarge
    I spoke with my machinist again this morning, he assures me it is a forged piston
    There seems to be some speculation that BMW stopped putting forged pistons in the N54 08 or later. I can neither confirm nor deny this though.
    2011 335is DCT, JB4 + MHD BEF, stage 2 LPFP, e50 + 50/50 meth, FBO, MT ET Streets when needed


  16. #266
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Well, just like a forged crank, there is going to be a casting mark.... It has to start somewhere, or else it would be billet Click here to enlarge


    I'm trying to keep this week light, as I'm going to Orlando to teach a BMW seminar..... So today I'm probably going to have to to tear apart this other N54 just sitting around (which I'm hoping is a late model since this is a early model 07 engine I just pulled apart) and maybe we can come to a conclusion on this Click here to enlarge


    Might have time to pull apart the S65 engine we are gonna go nuts on too.

    and when it comes to stand alone EMS systems- get ready to REALLY drop some coin. I would be running a motech on this since they can control dual Vanos infinitely and direct injection.
    Click here to enlarge
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    Turner Motorsports dealer
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    Shipping built/stroked/CNC ported N54's Internationally!
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  17. #267
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by alex@ABRhouston Click here to enlarge
    I spoke with my machinist again this morning, he assures me it is a forged piston
    Can you get an explanation of why? I still think they are cast.

  18. #268
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    Does Motech have an N54/x35i system though?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by alex@ABRhouston Click here to enlarge
    Well, just like a forged crank, there is going to be a casting mark.... It has to start somewhere, or else it would be billet Click here to enlarge


    I'm trying to keep this week light, as I'm going to Orlando to teach a BMW seminar..... So today I'm probably going to have to to tear apart this other N54 just sitting around (which I'm hoping is a late model since this is a early model 07 engine I just pulled apart) and maybe we can come to a conclusion on this Click here to enlarge


    Might have time to pull apart the S65 engine we are gonna go nuts on too.

    and when it comes to stand alone EMS systems- get ready to REALLY drop some coin. I would be running a motech on this since they can control dual Vanos infinitely and direct injection.
    2011 335is DCT, JB4 + MHD BEF, stage 2 LPFP, e50 + 50/50 meth, FBO, MT ET Streets when needed


  19. #269
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    No, but they have EMS systems that can handle it, you have to wire and configure it
    Click here to enlarge
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    Shipping built/stroked/CNC ported N54's Internationally!
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  20. #270
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    I think forged pistons start with bar stock and gain their rough shape in a forging press (drop forged?). I don't think piston blanks are cast and then forged. I'm not even sure that would make sense from a metallurgical point of view concerning orienting the grain boundaries in the material.

    I would also be interested to know why your machinist thought the pistons are forged. Those numbers I referenced above (maybe the date code) could not have been made in the forging process. If they were made during casting in the case of a forged piston that started as a cast blank, they would have been destroyed in the forging process. Also if those marks on the underside of the skirt (parting lines) were created by the boundary of mold inserts during a casting process, and the part was then forged, those marks would have been destroyed.

    Those pistons appear to have the tell tale signs of a cast part to me, with the parting lines and molded in number on the skirt.

    Check out this page about Mahle pistons:

    http://www.shophemi.com/t-Advantages...d-Pistons.aspx

    They specifically point out the parting lines indicate cast pistons.
    Eppur si muove.

  21. #271
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ajm8127 Click here to enlarge
    I think forged pistons start with bar stock and gain their rough shape in a forging press (drop forged?). I don't think piston blanks are cast and then forged. I'm not even sure that would make sense from a metallurgical point of view concerning orienting the grain boundaries in the material.

    I would also be interested to know why your machinist thought the pistons are forged. Those numbers I referenced above (maybe the date code) could not have been made in the forging process. If they were made during casting in the case of a forged piston that started as a cast blank, they would have been destroyed in the forging process. Also if those marks on the underside of the skirt (parting lines) were created by the boundary of mold inserts during a casting process, and the part was then forged, those marks would have been destroyed.

    Those pistons appear to have the tell tale signs of a cast part to me, with the parting lines and molded in number on the skirt.

    Check out this page about Mahle pistons:

    http://www.shophemi.com/t-Advantages...d-Pistons.aspx

    They specifically point out the parting lines indicate cast pistons.
    I agree on the cast part, but it looks like the part number is laser etched into the piston. I don't think that the cast process has that kind of definition?
    2008 335I E92, AW, VFF700, 18" Forgestar F14, M3 front/side, M-tech rear, AMS IC, H&R Touring Cup Kit suspension, HID AE, ER Charge Pipe & Synapse BOV, CIC Retrofit, Quafie, DSS, Defiv Lockdown, SPEC 2+/Steel SMFW, Walbro 450

  22. #272
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TCW Click here to enlarge
    I agree on the cast part, but it looks like the part number is laser etched into the piston. I don't think that the cast process has that kind of definition?
    The face is machined. You can tell by the concentric lines. It was cut on a lathe. If you zoom in on the picture of the face, you can see the machining lines. The notches for the valves were likely cut on a CNC machine. I'm sure the laser etching was done as a finishing step.
    Eppur si muove.

  23. #273
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    @ajm8127 - that is exactly what I thought when I was holding the pistons in my hand and inspecting them. Great info.

    I think they are cast, more specifically:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypereutectic_piston

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ajm8127 Click here to enlarge
    The face is machined. You can tell by the concentric lines. It was cut on a lathe. If you zoom in on the picture of the face, you can see the machining lines. The notches for the valves were likely cut on a CNC machine. I'm sure the laser etching was done as a finishing step.
    My mistake, I reread you comment and you were referencing the numbers on the side of the skirt.

    Also FWIW it looks like the crank has the "wide parting lines" meaning forged (even though this is already the consensus.)

    Click here to enlarge
    2008 335I E92, AW, VFF700, 18" Forgestar F14, M3 front/side, M-tech rear, AMS IC, H&R Touring Cup Kit suspension, HID AE, ER Charge Pipe & Synapse BOV, CIC Retrofit, Quafie, DSS, Defiv Lockdown, SPEC 2+/Steel SMFW, Walbro 450

  25. #275
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    alex@ABRhouston


    Hi,

    I had a engine that skipped timing/broken chain and the cylinder head is useless it seems. Are you able to fix these issues with your rebuild solution? Also would the block have sustained any damaged as a result?
    Thanks!

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