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  1. #226
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    The bad thing about book times is they have to pad a lot of jobs enough to cover the new/slow/inexperienced guys at the shops. Having done my fair share of engines at my shop I know most of the hours are usually excessive when you pull the engine like it was designed to be. I still see shops that still think an engine has to come out the top or front of the car. Not having done any BMW engines I'm guessing that damn slant probably interferes with dropping the cradle but would still think a proper shop should have the cradle sitting on the floor in just a few hours and might work with you on the hours.
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  2. #227
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    Getting all the wiring off the engine is a nightmare too. Makes for a nice rat's nest.

  3. #228
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by GeorgiaTech335Coupe Click here to enlarge
    Getting all the wiring off the engine is a nightmare too. Makes for a nice rat's nest.
    You can't drop it with the engine and worry about it when the cars out of the way?
    2008 135i - Cobb AP, JB4 G5 w/2Step&FSB, MS DP's, Berk street exhaust, AMS IC, VTT Inlets, UR Intake, ER CP w/Tial BOV, Spec 3+ & Steel FW, CDV delete, Quaife LSD, DSS Axles, M3 control arms, M3 rear SF bushings, M3 Trans bushings, SS brake lines. Pics

  4. #229
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by alex@ABRhouston Click here to enlarge
    Labor times to pull an N54 out of a vanilla 335, and reinstall it: (long block basically)
    KSD: 32.5
    shop key/all data: 27.8
    so an average of 30 hours.

    meh, I was close.
    I'll talk to my machinist when I go there for machine work charges.
    I was charged 22 hours including all gasket changes injectors hpfp and new clutch. He wanted 25 hours though.

  5. #230
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    I paid 30 hours for my motor swap and it's an I4. I just didn't pay $100/hr Click here to enlarge My motor was also built from scratch though. 30 hours for a longblock swap seems like a lot but it's whatever the book says basically. If you're cool with a shop they may charge you less if it takes less. I know mine did not take less than 30 hours but like I said mine was removed, new motor was asembled and put back into the car.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Torgus Click here to enlarge
    30 hours? at $100 an hour 3 grand just to take it out and put it back in? Expensive...
    2011 335is DCT, moving to Italy, looking for new car friends Click here to enlarge

  6. #231
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bigdnno98 Click here to enlarge
    I paid 30 hours for my motor swap and it's an I4. I just didn't pay $100/hr Click here to enlarge My motor was also built from scratch though. 30 hours for a longblock swap seems like a lot but it's whatever the book says basically. If you're cool with a shop they may charge you less if it takes less. I know mine did not take less than 30 hours but like I said mine was removed, new motor was asembled and put back into the car.
    Are you counting the engine build time in your 30?

  7. #232
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bigdnno98 Click here to enlarge
    I paid 30 hours for my motor swap and it's an I4. I just didn't pay $100/hr Click here to enlarge My motor was also built from scratch though. 30 hours for a longblock swap seems like a lot but it's whatever the book says basically. If you're cool with a shop they may charge you less if it takes less. I know mine did not take less than 30 hours but like I said mine was removed, new motor was asembled and put back into the car.
    and that's why i'm happy to have the engine out of the car

    and strip + assemble most of it myself besides machine work haha.. and install myself as much as possible..

    30 hours INCLUDING build? doesn't sound *too* bad
    boop

  8. #233
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    nah, that wasn't bad at all. and the labor $$/hr was great. the shop wanted to take the car to build the reputation. it was their first EVO and 2nd 4G motor.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    and that's why i'm happy to have the engine out of the car

    and strip + assemble most of it myself besides machine work haha.. and install myself as much as possible..

    30 hours INCLUDING build? doesn't sound *too* bad
    2011 335is DCT, moving to Italy, looking for new car friends Click here to enlarge

  9. #234
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    Yes they counted the engine build time in the 30 hours.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Torgus Click here to enlarge
    Are you counting the engine build time in your 30?
    2011 335is DCT, moving to Italy, looking for new car friends Click here to enlarge

  10. #235
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by brusk Click here to enlarge
    The bad thing about book times is they have to pad a lot of jobs enough to cover the new/slow/inexperienced guys at the shops. Having done my fair share of engines at my shop I know most of the hours are usually excessive when you pull the engine like it was designed to be. I still see shops that still think an engine has to come out the top or front of the car. Not having done any BMW engines I'm guessing that damn slant probably interferes with dropping the cradle but would still think a proper shop should have the cradle sitting on the floor in just a few hours and might work with you on the hours.
    This. I often notice "quoted" times and then what it really takes someone who does this often. A lot of shops like to milk those hours... it's not plastic surgery.
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  11. #236
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    Don't think of it as milking. I can't count how many times I have lost my butt on cars because of unforeseen issues..... Broken bolts from previous repairs, rust, parts don't fit, etc.etc.etc.

    its how the mechanic world works.... hopefully you find a shop that is reasonable, doesn't overcharge, and when you do big projects, they work with you.

    the object of the game is to beat flat rate, but like I said I don't want to derail this thread with flat rate and how mechanics get paid.
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  12. #237
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bigdnno98 Click here to enlarge
    nah, that wasn't bad at all. and the labor $$/hr was great. the shop wanted to take the car to build the reputation. it was their first EVO and 2nd 4G motor.
    ah fair enough, so there was a bit of a 'risk' discount in a way, also doing them a favour
    boop

  13. #238
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    scuseme?

    talking about machine shop/workshop rates in a thread that's basically about machine shop work is off topic? out of them all, your ​post is the most off-topic...

    sorry if anyone agrees, and does find it annoying though

    the conversation appeared to have ended on that tangent, anyway.
    I'm going to Bold a quote from the OP below for you...

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by alex@ABRhouston Click here to enlarge
    Don't think of it as milking. I can't count how many times I have lost my butt on cars because of unforeseen issues..... Broken bolts from previous repairs, rust, parts don't fit, etc.etc.etc.

    its how the mechanic world works.... hopefully you find a shop that is reasonable, doesn't overcharge, and when you do big projects, they work with you.

    the object of the game is to beat flat rate, but like I said I don't want to derail this thread with flat rate and how mechanics get paid.
    Also, if you look at the thread title, it's about boring and sleeving an N54, NOT machine shop/workshop rates. Not trying to be a dick, but you derailed this thread going on and on about flat rate labor and have been replied to multiple times by the OP that he will chat with you about it privately or in a new thread to keep this one ON topic.

    Now, can we please get back to boring and sleeving N54s?

  14. #239
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mycoupe Click here to enlarge
    I'm going to Bold a quote from the OP below for you...



    Also, if you look at the thread title, it's about boring and sleeving an N54, NOT machine shop/workshop rates. Not trying to be a dick, but you derailed this thread going on and on about flat rate labor and have been replied to multiple times by the OP that he will chat with you about it privately or in a new thread to keep this one ON topic.

    Now, can we please get back to boring and sleeving N54s?
    and you single me out when i didn't even start it

    you do understand that it's ON TOPIC.. right?

    talking about how much it costs (part of the cost being RnR) to bore and sleeve an N54 in a thread about boring and sleeving an N54 is.. off... topic.. ok.

    at which point did OP reply to me saying he would make a new thread? e90soflo is OP, not ARB.

    regardless, if you have a read of the whole post(s), you'll see it's not JUST about machine/workshop rates.

    the only posts 100% off topic in this thread, are the 2 you have made complaining and my replies

    you know what would stop this thread going off topic? you not posting about it.

    you're not new here.. but maybe you weren't active much until recently..? but this is pretty normal thread progression, it almost never gets fully off-topic like this.

    TL;DR, a conversation about RnR costs is on-topic... complaining about it not being on-topic is off-topic.
    boop

  15. #240
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    Gotta love this forum.
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  16. #241
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    and you single me out when i didn't even start it

    you do understand that it's ON TOPIC.. right?

    talking about how much it costs (part of the cost being RnR) to bore and sleeve an N54 in a thread about boring and sleeving an N54 is.. off... topic.. ok.

    at which point did OP reply to me saying he would make a new thread? e90soflo is OP, not ARB.

    regardless, if you have a read of the whole post(s), you'll see it's not JUST about machine/workshop rates.

    the only posts 100% off topic in this thread, are the 2 you have made complaining and my replies

    you know what would stop this thread going off topic? you not posting about it.

    you're not new here.. but maybe you weren't active much until recently..? but this is pretty normal thread progression, it almost never gets fully off-topic like this.

    TL;DR, a conversation about RnR costs is on-topic... complaining about it not being on-topic is off-topic.
    Last thing I am posting directly to you and off topic in this thread...Why even bother talking about R&R costs with people outside your own country and then argue with them? Just call a local shop and be done with it. Also, nice sig. VERY accurate.

  17. #242
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mycoupe Click here to enlarge
    Last thing I am posting directly to you and off topic in this thread...Why even bother talking about R&R costs with people outside your own country and then argue with them? Just call a local shop and be done with it. Also, nice sig. VERY accurate.
    Are you xenophobic?.. That's how you're coming across...

    If it's not ok for me to talk about things in Australia, on a forum that, yes, is predominantly American, I'm more than happy to stick to PF/MCM/boost... Unless i have something that only relates to the people from the 'states here...?

    Nor did I argue with anyone, I was just saying how it's normally done, and that doing it either way is completely acceptable (right from the start i said that..)... Did you also know the way things are done vary within your own country?! Even city?! Wow!

    On the last comment.

    For once, I'm only arguing because I'm the one that ISN'T in the wrong here haha... AND I'm not the $#@! out of the two.
    Last edited by Flinchy; 06-25-2013 at 12:28 AM.
    boop

  18. #243
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    Talked to my buddy that's a master tech at the local bmw dealer. He said All-data book time is 19.3 hours to R&R an N54 on a MT 135. And 31.5 hrs to R&R plus install new pistons. BMW warranty on the other hand pays 27hrs to replace pistons. He said he would quote 40 hrs to do the job as "1.5 times warranty time is a pretty standard way of adding it up" His dealer charges $138hr times 40 hrs comes out to $5520. Add ~$1050 for cp pistons and your looking at $6570. Hope that helps! Click here to enlarge

  19. #244
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bmw335iguy Click here to enlarge
    He said he would quote 40 hrs to do the job as "1.5 times warranty time is a pretty standard way of adding it up"
    Sounds like a good place to trim fat if you ask me.
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  20. #245
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    FWIW, N63 swap took about 44hrs "book" time at the dealer.

  21. #246
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bmw335iguy Click here to enlarge
    Talked to my buddy that's a master tech at the local bmw dealer. He said All-data book time is 19.3 hours to R&R an N54 on a MT 135.
    That is either warranty time, or strictly a "remove and reinstall", not a "remove and replace" two very different amounts of labor
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  22. #247
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Tzu Click here to enlarge
    FWIW, N63 swap took about 44hrs "book" time at the dealer.
    I've done three of these engines, and I assure you its about that much work lol
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by alex@ABRhouston Click here to enlarge
    I've done three of these engines, and I assure you its about that much work lol
    Not disagreeing. I was there for a good amount of it and it is a lot of work. Was just throwing in my .02

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    ahh yeah, so like i said, 'dealership hours'

    if i take it to a workshop and they do it in half that... and i know it... i wouldn't be happy being charged 24hrs for it.

    unless you charge in the same manner?

    i don't know of any local indy performance shop that would charge TIS hours for any work, inc engine removal unless they went over. may just be the different car culture over here though.
    You have to understand that you get what you pay for. We get $3000 for a Audi RS4 engine swap, but it only takes two days and we are cheap. You have a great area if that is the case.

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    2 out of 2 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by brusk Click here to enlarge
    The bad thing about book times is they have to pad a lot of jobs enough to cover the new/slow/inexperienced guys at the shops. Having done my fair share of engines at my shop I know most of the hours are usually excessive when you pull the engine like it was designed to be. I still see shops that still think an engine has to come out the top or front of the car. Not having done any BMW engines I'm guessing that damn slant probably interferes with dropping the cradle but would still think a proper shop should have the cradle sitting on the floor in just a few hours and might work with you on the hours.
    I am sure there are shops out there that are willing to do the work and work with you on the labor costs, but what are you getting for that "adjustment"? Do you really want to trust this "guy" to work on your $30, $40, $50K dollar car to save $1000 dollars? People need to understand that you are not saving when you go cheap on labor work. CP pistons are CP pistons, dealership labor is dealership labor and if you get it done for 1/2 the price of the dealer... I would worry about the quality of the work being performed.

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