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  1. #1
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    Is 100 octane leaded fuel OK?

    I discovered a somewhat local gas station that sells 100 octane race fuel for $6.99 per gallon. Considering that regular 93 octane fuel is $5.15 in Chicago, this is not a bad deal at all.

    The fuel is leaded though. However, I don't think it will be an issue, considering that I am fully catless.

    Your opinions?
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    Over time, it will degrade your O2 sensors.

    Neil

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    people act like itll take your o2s out in 2 seconds but if you use it for a track night here and there you should be fine... depends on how sensitive the o2s are... but the next time I went out I was going to use it in the beginning of the evening than top it off with some unleaded and see if it made a difference... I would go with 117 if you were gonna go unleaded though.. I don't think just 100 octane is worth the degraded life of your sensors on a semi regular basis... may as well run e40-50 or meth

    evo guys run in on the regular and some report pretty decent o2 sensor life
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    It's not a problem that it's leaded, but if you run it a lot it'll kill your o2 sensors
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    Leaded gas to oxygen sensors is like smoking to lungs. Some people get away with two packs a day for a lifetime, but it doesn't mean it's good for you.

    If you have a choice, use the LL stuff (low lead). If this is typical aviation gas (which I suspect it is) then it is probably 100LL. If you are not running too rich then the sensors should still last a while, but not all sensors are created equal, some can handle lead better than others. Worst case, you have to replace the O2's sooner than expected. The only way you will make more power on aviation gas is with more boost/timing though, the fuel has a slower burn than racing gas and isn't oxygenated. It's more for safety purposes for airplanes than racing purposes, but then again 91/93 aren't racing gases either by any stretch of the imagination.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by V8Bait Click here to enlarge
    Leaded gas to oxygen sensors is like smoking to lungs. Some people get away with two packs a day for a lifetime, but it doesn't mean it's good for you.

    If you have a choice, use the LL stuff (low lead). If this is typical aviation gas (which I suspect it is) then it is probably 100LL. If you are not running too rich then the sensors should still last a while, but not all sensors are created equal, some can handle lead better than others. Worst case, you have to replace the O2's sooner than expected. The only way you will make more power on aviation gas is with more boost/timing though, the fuel has a slower burn than racing gas and isn't oxygenated. It's more for safety purposes for airplanes than racing purposes, but then again 91/93 aren't racing gases either by any stretch of the imagination.
    You're so smart. I want you as my doctor when you become one.
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    I got in the habit of using it at the track and it only took 3 times to ruin mine. If you do use it I would mix with some unleaded. Car did run like a beast on leaded but I think mine was over 100oct.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by nafoo Click here to enlarge
    You're so smart. I want you as my doctor when you become one.
    To who ever negged me, I was being serious. @V8Bait is one of the smartest guys on this forum with tons of useful knowledge. He's also local to me and a med student.
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  9. #9
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by nafoo Click here to enlarge
    You're so smart. I want you as my doctor when you become one.

    I didn't neg 'ya but I countered it some haha, H-town has to rep each other!

    Thanks! I just remember too much random stuff. It annoys the crap out of my girlfriend. My friend in college's dad was an aeronautical engineer/pilot, and I worked at a racing shop that did racing for the cheap. I have a sort of eclectic background compared to most people in med school with me (mechanical engineering to chemical engineering to biological engineering in college). Anyway there aren't any good medical forums that don't make you want to pull your hair out (worse than e90post) so I kinda stalk the car ones. I'm pretty good with the chemical stuff (fuels/oils etc).

    I'm working in a tissue engineering lab until the semester starts this July. It's pretty freaking awesome, I get to play with stem cells and expensive equipment all day trying to re-grow breasts soft tissue defects and such (plastic and reconstructive surgery department lol). My parents are afraid I'm going to go into some strangs field of neuroscience/reconstructive surgery and create a cyborg since I love tech/engineering/medicine stuff. I wonder if it scared them that I kinda liked that idea...

    Edit- Apparently I have to spread love around
    Last edited by V8Bait; 06-14-2013 at 05:43 PM.

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    I wonder who makes 100 octane leaded? I was under the impression that all octanes below 104 are unleaded. (Sunoco 260gt, Sunoco 260gt plus, ms109)

    The place near me sells 100 unleaded (260gt) and 110 leaded at the pump for about 8 bucks a gallon.
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    If you check again you will see its unleaded. It is nearly impossible to make a 100 octane leaded as the leaded bumps octane so effectively. And no, you don't want to use leaded gas

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    cam2 makes 100 leaded

  13. #13
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    I ran it on my car, one race day, literally next day o2s crapped out...bad luck? coincidence? Maybe, maybe not..i won't run it again with oem o2 widebands at least
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    Hear similar stories all the time. Not really worth the risks given the numerous other unleaded options out there these days.
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  15. #15
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    I've only ran it in a different car I have. It's using an innovative wideband setup and no cats whatsoever. I wasn't very concerned since replacing the sensors on those are cheap, I did have one fail a little while ago, but it may have been so many things on that car that caused it from heat to condensation that I really have no idea. If you'd like to homebrew some gas, may I suggest toluene or xylene, at least in small quantities (a couple gallons, you don't want to get too high with the aromatics if you can help it). It's relatively cheap at paint stores by the 5 gallon jug and is 115+ octane. Or e85, or both since using one enables the other. There's better ways, unless you have money riding on a race in a crunch imo (sounds like you're debating it from a daily perspective from cost/octane).

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    At $400+ to replace your o2 sensors, I wouldn't bother. You'd be better off with MS109 or Shell URT Ultimate, or anything unleaded.

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    with octane

    what measurement are we talking?

    100/117 AKI/MON/RON?

    because when you talk about 91/93, that's AKI, and 93 AKI is 98 RON... when you talk about E85 being 105, that's 105 RON, but about 96 or 98 AKI (depending where you look)...

    so you (people in general) seem to mostly mix the two terms up, when LARGELY they're non-comparable.

    i'm assuming for some reason we're talking 100AKI though in the OP, as 100RON is terribly low for leaded fuel haha..

    though 117 would be RON, as an AKI that high is damn near impossible... puts it a $#@!load above ethanol fuels lol

    this whole swap and change of octane ratings is stupid, and probably confuses the hell out of a lot of people thinking some fuels are better or worse than others

    so now I'M kinda confused... with MS109/117 race fuels having a higher octane to E85... how come most power records are set on E85 rather than the higher octane fuels that should be able to handle more boost/timing? something to do with how ethanol atomises+cools so straight octane rating doesn't tell the whole story?
    Last edited by Flinchy; 06-15-2013 at 12:17 AM.
    boop

  18. #18
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    with octane

    what measurement are we talking?

    100/117 AKI/MON/RON?

    because when you talk about 91/93, that's AKI, and 93 AKI is 98 RON... when you talk about E85 being 105, that's 105 RON, but about 96 or 98 AKI (depending where you look)...

    so you (people in general) seem to mostly mix the two terms up, when LARGELY they're non-comparable.

    i'm assuming for some reason we're talking 100AKI though in the OP, as 100RON is terribly low for leaded fuel haha..

    though 117 would be RON, as an AKI that high is damn near impossible... puts it a $#@!load above ethanol fuels lol

    this whole swap and change of octane ratings is stupid, and probably confuses the hell out of a lot of people thinking some fuels are better or worse than others

    so now I'M kinda confused... with MS109/117 race fuels having a higher octane to E85... how come most power records are set on E85 rather than the higher octane fuels that should be able to handle more boost/timing? something to do with how ethanol atomises+cools so straight octane rating doesn't tell the whole story?
    Octane ratings are crazy, they are useful when comparing similar fuels to each other though, assuming you compare similarly between RON/MON/AKI etc. The way they are tested doesn't always have to do with how our engines will react. So, they are only useful for comparison between similar fuels.

    When it comes to alcohol... you are right, the *actual* octane is going to measure lower in similar testing circumstances to gasoline. But alcohols are not gasoline, they require different volumes due to energy content, have different latent heat, etc... so you can't really compare their octane like that. The fact that our cars are DI completely screws up the ratings systems even more. You can't run 14:1 compression on 91 octane on a carburetor safely, because of knock... but you can on DI. Everything is relative to knock suppression and fuel family.

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    100 Octane is okay - if it's leaded, you will kill your catalytic converters pretty quickly - and they aren't cheap. I am guessing anyone running 100 octane leaded gas doesn't have cats on their car though. Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Stucks Click here to enlarge
    I wonder who makes 100 octane leaded? I was under the impression that all octanes below 104 are unleaded. (Sunoco 260gt, Sunoco 260gt plus, ms109)

    The place near me sells 100 unleaded (260gt) and 110 leaded at the pump for about 8 bucks a gallon.
    I just mixed 100 unleaded from Sunoco with 93 Shell in my M3 for fun. It was the most expensive tank of gas I ever put in the car, but was curious if I would actually feel anything from the timing advance (read the car will adapt to 95 octane). Sunoco makes some bad ass fuels: http://www.racegas.com/fuel/index

    That's a list of everything they make - I used 260 GT (8.45 a gallon, which isn't TOO terrible considering 93 octane is near 5 dollars a gallon in Chicago right now)

    EDIT - read your post too quickly, reversed leaded/unleaded in my mind I guess... Yeah, I think you are right 100 and above I would have concern for lead - esp. after looking at Sunoco's fuel list.

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    Looks like 260 GT Plus is unleaded - and has 104 octane. I just called a place that sells it in Chicago - 13 a gallon...

  22. #22
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    lol i have used 260gt (100 octane unleaded) from the pump and 260gt plus (104 octane unleaded) from a can before. major difference over pump gas. expensive indeed, but gotta pay to play.
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    I have setup an account at the local VP distributor to have a 5 gallon pale of MS109 on auto reorder once a month lol
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    It's not a problem that it's leaded, but if you run it a lot it'll kill your o2 sensors
    This plus can't it clog injectors?

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    Good info guys! I talked to the manager of the station. It is indeed leaded fuel. I'll stay away from it.
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