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  1. #176
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    All you need to know is an M3 exceeded anything an N54 has ever done without even running to redline or on highest boost. How big do you think the disparity really is at the moment? When the S65 gets turbos how much bigger will it get?
    Lol, exactly. Try to get that through the south Florida N54 guys thick heads but they are ignorant as a rock.

  2. #177
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    I thought the argument was FBO 335i vs stock M3?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by govr46 Click here to enlarge
    Well, My car makes a little over 700WHP and my motor is completely stock. (Unlike any 700 or 800whp M3)

    Just think what a 335 could do with a built motor.
    N54 comes with stronger internals than the s65 from the factory. S65 was built to be light where as the n54 is more robust
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  4. #179
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by justohigh Click here to enlarge
    I thought the argument was FBO 335i vs stock M3?
    It always devolves into 335 versus M3 overall ultimately.
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  5. #180
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by G0TB00ST? Click here to enlarge
    N54 comes with stronger internals than the s65 from the factory. S65 was built to be light where as the n54 is more robust
    Cast parts are stronger? And the N54 is designed to go to 8400 rpm? Please.
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  6. #181
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    [COLOR=[URL=http://www.bimmerboost.com/misc.php?do=dbtech_usertag_hash&hash=222222%5D%5BF ONT%3DTimes%5D%5BQUOTE%3DSticky]#222222]
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky[/URL
    467247]Cast parts are stronger? And the N54 is designed to go to 8400 rpm? Please.
    I've read from several sources that the n54 had certain internal parts that were forged ( not sure which ones specifically, but I believe the pistons are). But the s65 has cast parts. I could be wrong but I've seen it several places
    [/COLOR]
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  7. #182
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    I'm not sure what happened to the format on my last post?
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  8. #183
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by G0TB00ST? Click here to enlarge
    [COLOR=[URL=http://www.bimmerboost.com/misc.php?do=dbtech_usertag_hash&hash=222222%5D%5BFONT%3DTimes%5D%5BQUOTE%3DSticky]#222222]
    I've read from several sources that the n54 had certain internal parts that were forged ( not sure which ones specifically, but I believe the pistons are). But the s65 has cast parts. I could be wrong but I've seen it several places
    [/COLOR]
    The stress a motor undergoes with high piston speeds and revs necessitates some pretty strong parts. Forged crank and rods, cast pistons.

    The N54 is not built for big boost by default. It isn't designed to be a power platform or with professional racing in mind.

    You said the N54 internals are stronger with no basis for it. "Robust" is your support? Really?
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  9. #184
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by G0TB00ST? Click here to enlarge
    I'm not sure what happened to the format on my last post?
    Not sure what you posted from, mobile or otherwise.
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  10. #185
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by G0TB00ST? Click here to enlarge
    [COLOR=[URL=http://www.bimmerboost.com/misc.php?do=dbtech_usertag_hash&hash=222222%5D%5BF ONT%3DTimes%5D%5BQUOTE%3DSticky]#222222]
    I've read from several sources that the n54 had certain internal parts that were forged ( not sure which ones specifically, but I believe the pistons are). But the s65 has cast parts. I could be wrong but I've seen it several places
    [/COLOR]
    The N54 crank and rods are unquestionably forged (per BMW documentation). The pistons probably aren't. Regardless, the N54 has been proven to withstand ~275 BHP / liter so far and we're still going. Just for fun (not for the sake of scientific data since there are many other variables), break out your calculator and figure out how much total BHP that would be in Z06 or Viper displacement. Click here to enlarge

  11. #186
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    The stress a motor undergoes with high piston speeds and revs necessitates some pretty strong parts. Forged crank and rods, cast pistons.

    The N54 is not built for big boost by default. It isn't designed to be a power platform or with professional racing in mind.

    You said the N54 internals are stronger with no basis for it. "Robust" is your support? Really?
    I'm tired and being lazy, I'll try to elaborate more.
    Just because an engine revs higher doesn't necessarily means its built "stronger". The Honda s2k has a higher redline and faster engine speed, but I highly doubt it's built "stronger" than the s65. What I'm trying to say is that the n54 is a stronger boosted engine (stock for stock). But sure when it comes to handling revving past 8k the s65 is going to be "stronger".
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  12. #187
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by G0TB00ST? Click here to enlarge
    Just because an engine revs higher doesn't necessarily means its built "stronger".
    You're right. That's why I mentioned that the motor was made with racing in mind. Additionally, if you ask most engine builders they attribute a whole ton of stress to RPM. And RPM is very important regarding strength. The S65 was tested up to 10k rpm by BMW.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by G0TB00ST? Click here to enlarge
    The Honda s2k has a higher redline and faster engine speed, but I highly doubt it's built "stronger" than the s65.
    It makes like 700 whp on stock internals. Building a motor for revs by nature makes for some strong parts being necessary.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by G0TB00ST? Click here to enlarge
    What I'm trying to say is that the n54 is a stronger boosted engine (stock for stock). But sure when it comes to handling revving past 8k the s65 is going to be "stronger".
    I understand what you are trying to say but you are wrong. The N54 isn't a stronger boosted engine as by default the M3 makes far more power per psi of boost. And it goes to show how strong it is with its stock internal results. Boost with a motor made for natural aspiration gives 600 whp. Build it for that boost in mind and well same ole same ole.

    Additionally, stock for stock with boost for both is what you are also mentioning right?
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  13. #188
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    @Sticky correct I'm comparing stock for stock. if th s65 is stronger then why are there 700hp n54 and not s65?
    Edit* and yes you are 100% right about the stress from rpm, but it's a different kind of stress than stress inflicted by boost.
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  14. #189
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by G0TB00ST? Click here to enlarge
    @Sticky correct I'm comparing stock for stock. if th s65 is stronger then why are there 700hp n54 and not s65?
    Edit* and yes you are 100% right about the stress from rpm, but it's a different kind of stress than stress inflicted by boost.
    I think you can figure out on your own why one motor might make more on stock internals than another. It's honestly simple. Ultimately we get into potential and let's be real 4.0 liters with 8500 rpm and 8 cylinders won't be overcome. Ever.
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  15. #190
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by G0TB00ST? Click here to enlarge
    I'm tired and being lazy, I'll try to elaborate more.
    Just because an engine revs higher doesn't necessarily means its built "stronger". The Honda s2k has a higher redline and faster engine speed, but I highly doubt it's built "stronger" than the s65. What I'm trying to say is that the n54 is a stronger boosted engine (stock for stock). But sure when it comes to handling revving past 8k the s65 is going to be "stronger".
    Being able to rev high does not have to do with the strength of a motor, but the s2k's motor is among one of the great motors out there. People have pushed it to 700rwhp with stock block and head, and plenty of 600rwhp+ builds. This is also coming from a 2.0L 4cylinder motor, so I would say yes it has been built "stronger" than a S65.

  16. #191
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    2 out of 4 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Just my 2 cents as I was reading posts from a few people who clearly don't realize a 450 whp 335i will smoke a 450 whp M3 due to the fact the 335i make 500 wtq.... Some people say it didn't happen without video... Well here you go! Clearly the JB car needs a little work as I know for a fact a well tuned JB car will match my cars performance on stock turbos... Enjoy



    This one my engine coded and I limped to the finish... Ended up having a failed plug...


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    BTW, don't get me wrong... I would love to have an M3, especially this one....


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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by justohigh Click here to enlarge
    Being able to rev high does not have to do with the strength of a motor, but the s2k's motor is among one of the great motors out there. People have pushed it to 700rwhp with stock block and head, and plenty of 600rwhp+ builds. This is also coming from a 2.0L 4cylinder motor, so I would say yes it has been built "stronger" than a S65.
    Being able to rev high has to do a TON with the strength of an engine. If it didn't you could just spin any engine you wanted (including the N54/55) to 8.5k. Again - revs and torque are equal components to HP, so if this were true - people would just spin their engines to F1 speeds (22-24k RPM). It takes a very very well engineered and strong engine to put up with the stresses of high RPM continuous use.

    The next gen GT3 is a good thing to look at, I am very curious what is found when that engine is looked at under light. 9k in an engine that size is just as "crazy" as the difference between 7k and 8.5kRPM - jumping up to 9k RPM is crazy stress on an engine.

  19. #194
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by justohigh Click here to enlarge
    Being able to rev high does not have to do with the strength of a motor, but the s2k's motor is among one of the great motors out there. People have pushed it to 700rwhp with stock block and head, and plenty of 600rwhp+ builds. This is also coming from a 2.0L 4cylinder motor, so I would say yes it has been built "stronger" than a S65.
    1) you are wrong. If it revs high it's built strong. The s54 is a perfect example.
    2) I never said the f20c1 in the s2k wasn't a great motor. It has the fastest recorded engine speed and revs to 9k of course it's great, but I'm not here to debate the s2k
    3)it has a sleeved block so yeah I imagine it can make pretty good hp numbers with forced induction on the stock block(I guess that goes against my previous post about strength but idc)block
    4) sticky is still on the stock block and maybe stock head(@Sticky correct me if I'm wrong) making high hp with a bigger engine with more moving parts that need to be built stronger so as not to fail.
    Last edited by G0TB00ST?; 06-15-2013 at 03:12 PM.
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  20. #195
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by G0TB00ST? Click here to enlarge
    1) you are wrong. If it revs high it's built strong. The s54 is a perfect example.
    2) I never said the f20c1 in the s2k wasn't a great motor. It has the fastest recorded engine speed and revs to 9k of course it's great, but I'm not here to debate the s2k
    3)it has a sleeved block so yeah I imagine it can make pretty good hp numbers with forced induction on the stock block(I guess that goes against my previous post about strength but idc)block
    4) sticky is still on the stock block and maybe stock head(@Sticky correct me if I'm wrong) making high hp with a bigger engine with more moving parts that need to be built stronger so as not to fail.
    Cars/motors that rev high, but are not considered built strong- rx8, b16 honda motor, b18 honda motor, all the crotch rockets.

    How is being able to rev high= to being built strong? It may be a characteristic of a strong built motor, but doesn't necessarily mean its built to handle tons of power.

    also, sticky's motor is built.

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    If it revs high it's built stronger than the average engine otherwise you could spin any engine to 9k+ rpm with no problems.
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  22. #197
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    Geometry plays a key role in max RPM. A long stroke motor has to be built much stronger to sustain high RPM than a short stroke motor would need to be. A chainsaw revs at really high RPM's, but it's not built stronger than an N54...

  23. #198
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    All you need to know is an M3 exceeded anything an N54 has ever done without even running to redline or on highest boost. How big do you think the disparity really is at the moment? When the S65 gets turbos how much bigger will it get?
    and i'm sure both motors will keep playing leapfrog until people get sick of spending so much... or yours exceeds all expectations and makes stupid power haha
    boop

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by justohigh Click here to enlarge
    Being able to rev high does not have to do with the strength of a motor, but the s2k's motor is among one of the great motors out there. People have pushed it to 700rwhp with stock block and head, and plenty of 600rwhp+ builds. This is also coming from a 2.0L 4cylinder motor, so I would say yes it has been built "stronger" than a S65.
    The F20 is 11.0:1. You can't base strength solely off hp figures or else the S65 V8 is "stronger" since the F22 bumped the redline down and made less horsepower NA. It isn't black and white like that.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Wedge1967 Click here to enlarge
    Just my 2 cents as I was reading posts from a few people who clearly don't realize a 450 whp 335i will smoke a 450 whp M3 due to the fact the 335i make 500 wtq....
    Omg this same idiotic point again. Another person trying to tell others what they need to realize when he doesn't realize 570 whp M3's are putting down the same trap speeds as the Vishnu single turbo in the mid 650's. How do you explain that?

    Someone focusing on engine torque figures again, wonderful. Still the common poster does not get it.

    I'll never make the same torque as some of these big turbo cars but I'll annihilate them. The M3 doesn't need more peak torque it's where it makes its torque that matters. God damn...
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