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  1. #76
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    @DCAFS man that’s some good boost in the top end… wish I could do that. About what WGDC at 6k?

    Since your trims diverge ONLY when injecting meth, maybe this is more a vaporization thing effecting distribution. My trims stay fairly constant throughout the year… but super hot in the summer and super dry in the winter and slightly lower vapor temp then you. This maybe something to add to the “why” equation. So, distribution, atomization, vaporization, LTFT, injectors... what else.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Tzu Click here to enlarge
    Yes, static fuel flow with increasing airflow will enlean the fuel mixture. On this platform, boost has to be considered and the implications of it, hence meth is moreso correlated to boost, then RPM. Whereas an NA engine would be correlated to RPM only, increasing meth flow proportionally to RPM (and therefore air), to keep octane as constant as possible.

    Not sure what that has to do with fuel corrections? At the end of the day, some people have divergence and others don't. This thread is attempting to find out why.
    Just thinking out loud about this.......seems the aquamist control system taps into the injector duty cycles and will vary meth flow according to injector pulsation.

    This sounds like the most accruate way to get a stable proportion of meth delivered across the entire rpm range.

    But in our case, the fuel trim system just compensates by adding or subrtacting fuel while spraying meth.......must confuse the hell out of the long term adaptaions.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JoshBoody Click here to enlarge
    @DCAFS man that’s some good boost in the top end… wish I could do that. About what WGDC at 6k?
    .
    Yeah I know......and I don't favour running boost that high on stockers, but the datalogs seem to look best at 18 psi tapering down to 16psi at 6K rpm.

    I have found that the additional airflow from high boost seems to improve the trims a little bit and the timing curve is not complaining one bit, even in 90F ambients. I am running ignition correction at 70% on map 2 and still manage to hit 10 degrees of advance at 6K with no tiiming dips.

    To answer your question, the WGDC varies from 50 below 5K rpm and just hits 60 by 6K rpm which is when I always shift.

  4. #79
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JoshBoody Click here to enlarge
    @DCAFS
    Since your trims diverge ONLY when injecting meth, maybe this is more a vaporization thing effecting distribution. My trims stay fairly constant throughout the year… but super hot in the summer and super dry in the winter and slightly lower vapor temp then you. This maybe something to add to the “why” equation. So, distribution, atomization, vaporization, LTFT, injectors... what else.
    Yes, in my case the fuel trims diverge to 20% in colder winter temps and improve by 10% in the summer months.

    This suggests there is a vaporization factor here in my mind, but I have tried reducing my meth flow rate all the way down to 18 from 30 and it didn't seem to help the trims.

    Seems to me that the meth is liquifying in the chargepipe above 5K rpms and then seems to stay that way into the next gear.

    But as Tzu suggested earlier, perhaps I should let the adaptations do their thing before jumping to conclusions.

    I have probably only pulled about 4 datalogs since moving the nozzles to the same location where you did.

  5. #80
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    I'm finally about to purchase and install a methanol injection system on my 08 135 (I ran an Aquamist 2D with two jets on my 04 V70R previously), and I'm torn between the Snow Performance kit and the Aquamist HFS-2. I run the GIAC Stage II race file, so I need a standalone setup.

    Should I buy the BMW meth elbow and install a second jet via a silicone adapter from Howerton? This looks to be the best location after other research and reading this thread.
    2008 135 GIAC Stage II Race File
    2011 335d Stock

  6. #81
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Edogg218 Click here to enlarge
    Should I buy the BMW meth elbow and install a second jet via a silicone adapter from Howerton? This looks to be the best location after other research and reading this thread.
    @Terry@BMS
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  7. #82
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Thanks Sticky. I did email Jeff at BMS to ask if they would install a second port in the BMS meth elbow, but he said they did not. I wonder if they would measure the wall thickness of the elbow for me so I can order the correct adapter from Howerton?
    2008 135 GIAC Stage II Race File
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  8. #83
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Edogg218 Click here to enlarge
    Thanks Sticky. I did email Jeff at BMS to ask if they would install a second port in the BMS meth elbow, but he said they did not. I wonder if they would measure the wall thickness of the elbow for me so I can order the correct adapter from Howerton?
    I have no clue but I'm sure they'll help you figure out what is best for you.
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  9. #84
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I have no clue but I'm sure they'll help you figure out what is best for you.
    I know everyone says it, but I love this forum and that I don't have to be a pioneer on this platform Click here to enlarge
    2008 135 GIAC Stage II Race File
    2011 335d Stock

  10. #85
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Edogg218 Click here to enlarge
    I know everyone says it, but I love this forum and that I don't have to be a pioneer on this platform Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge
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  11. #86
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Edogg218 Click here to enlarge
    I'm finally about to purchase and install a methanol injection system on my 08 135 (I ran an Aquamist 2D with two jets on my 04 V70R previously), and I'm torn between the Snow Performance kit and the Aquamist HFS-2. I run the GIAC Stage II race file, so I need a standalone setup.

    Should I buy the BMW meth elbow and install a second jet via a silicone adapter from Howerton? This looks to be the best location after other research and reading this thread.
    I would stick with the Aquamist kit, the quality is unmatched as i am sure you are aware. If you have an aftermarket charge pipe you can tap it for both nozzles, or you can run the silicone elbow adapter from Howerton - like you already mentioned you just need to know the thickness. The GIAC SII Race file is not very aggressive, so i wouldnt get too hung up on perfect meth/h20 distribution between cylinders.
    2011 E90 M3 \ Melbourne Rot Metallic

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  12. #87
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lulz_m3 Click here to enlarge
    I would stick with the Aquamist kit, the quality is unmatched as i am sure you are aware. If you have an aftermarket charge pipe you can tap it for both nozzles, or you can run the silicone elbow adapter from Howerton - like you already mentioned you just need to know the thickness. The GIAC SII Race file is not very aggressive, so i wouldnt get too hung up on perfect meth/h20 distribution between cylinders.
    I'm leaning toward Aquamist again because I had such good luck with my other system. I'm not too worried about cylinder distribution because I'm not tuning for every last horsepower, and I do love the power of the stock turbos with the current file. On the 135 we are severely limited on rear tire width, and I'm already traction limited at this power level.

    i don't have an aftermarket charge pipe (BMS is back ordered) yet, and will go this route eventually.

    Thanks very much for your response - I will rep when I can Click here to enlarge
    2008 135 GIAC Stage II Race File
    2011 335d Stock

  13. #88
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Edogg218 Click here to enlarge
    I'm leaning toward Aquamist again because I had such good luck with my other system. I'm not too worried about cylinder distribution because I'm not tuning for every last horsepower, and I do love the power of the stock turbos with the current file. On the 135 we are severely limited on rear tire width, and I'm already traction limited at this power level.

    i don't have an aftermarket charge pipe (BMS is back ordered) yet, and will go this route eventually.

    Thanks very much for your response - I will rep when I can Click here to enlarge
    Uneven meth distribution between cylinders could possiblly lead to different octane levels in those cylinders.

    Not such a big deal since the N54 has individual cylinder timing correction....but nonetheless.....not ideal either.

    That aside, I like the aquamist system because it taps into what the fuel injector duty cycles are doing.

    All the other meth systems just spray a constant stream at full throttle, but as rpms rise more airflow happens and injector duty cycles would have to change in order to keep pace.

    If the aquamist platform mimics this, then it truly is acting like a seventh fuel injector.

  14. #89
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DCAFS Click here to enlarge
    Uneven meth distribution between cylinders could possiblly lead to different octane levels in those cylinders.

    Not such a big deal since the N54 has individual cylinder timing correction....but nonetheless.....not ideal either.

    That aside, I like the aquamist system because it taps into what the fuel injector duty cycles are doing.

    All the other meth systems just spray a constant stream at full throttle, but as rpms rise more airflow happens and injector duty cycles would have to change in order to keep pace.

    If the aquamist platform mimics this, then it truly is acting like a seventh fuel injector.
    I decided to stick with Aquamist and ordered a new system today for exactly this reason Click here to enlarge
    2008 135 GIAC Stage II Race File
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  15. #90
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Our chargepipes are finally back in stock. They feature dual 1/8" NPT nozzles with our special bung to prevent nozzle spray from hitting the bung edges. Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge

    http://www.burgertuning.com/chargepipe_N54_BMW.html
    Last edited by Terry@BMS; 07-24-2013 at 10:56 PM.
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  16. #91
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Our chargepipes are finally back in stock. They feature dual 1/8" NPT nozzles with our special bung to prevent nozzle spray from hitting the bung edges. Click here to enlarge

    http://www.bimmerboost.com/images/im...c1d13747-1.jpg

    http://www.bimmerboost.com/images/im...rgePipe7-1.jpg

    http://www.burgertuning.com/chargepipe_N54_BMW.html
    Gah! Of course I ordered my meth elbow Monday Click here to enlarge
    2008 135 GIAC Stage II Race File
    2011 335d Stock

  17. #92
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    So, at this point in time on this thread has there been a consensus yet on nozzle location? Unless I missed something, there haven't been any proven improvements by moving nozzles further upstream from chargepipe or elbow.
    2009 335i coupe back to stock...for now

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    The data suggests a significant improvement after moving nozzles to lower IC coupler. I'm fighting a trim divergence that, at the moment, appears to be specific to my car.

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    Interesting, I just installed my kit over the weekend, put two 1.0mm nozzles on chargepipe end away from manifold. first log looks pretty damn good, we'll what happens if i try pushing things a bit.

    Has anybody tried leaving nozzle(s) in chargepipe or elbow and adding an additional on the IC coupler?
    2009 335i coupe back to stock...for now

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mjmarovi Click here to enlarge
    Interesting, I just installed my kit over the weekend, put two 1.0mm nozzles on chargepipe end away from manifold. first log looks pretty damn good, we'll what happens if i try pushing things a bit.

    Has anybody tried leaving nozzle(s) in chargepipe or elbow and adding an additional on the IC coupler?
    Can you post up your log with fuel trims for both banks please?

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    im going to try and recusitate this thread, because its excellent, and I believe that no conclusions were reached.

    I have a question though, are you all just tapping into the different nozzle locations, or are you welding a bung in?

    Also, I just got a devilsown kit, and the pressure valve needs to be plugged into a vacume line, but I cant seem to find one in my N55 bmw 135i. I know these are electric, but where can plug the pressure valve that is used with the devilsown kit?

    Thank you all, u da bestest

  22. #97
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by jbarzelatto Click here to enlarge
    I have a question though, are you all just tapping into the different nozzle locations, or are you welding a bung in?
    this may not apply as I have an entirely different car/engine. However I had a direct port meth system in my GTI. The intake manifold is plastic -- I drilled/tapped a 1/4 NPT hole in the manifold, put 1/4NPT male/1-8 NPT female bushings into those holes, JB welding them, then put the nozzles in the bushings. I would say this is a great way to go (along with Aquamist's nozzle holders) as you can just plug the holes when you're done. Obviously if you're placing it into metal, I would weld if possible.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by chrisisnapping Click here to enlarge
    this may not apply as I have an entirely different car/engine. However I had a direct port meth system in my GTI. The intake manifold is plastic -- I drilled/tapped a 1/4 NPT hole in the manifold, put 1/4NPT male/1-8 NPT female bushings into those holes, JB welding them, then put the nozzles in the bushings. I would say this is a great way to go (along with Aquamist's nozzle holders) as you can just plug the holes when you're done.
    I did the same......tapped into the OEM plastic up pipe from the intercooler and screwed in the bungs sealed with a bit of loctiite, then inserted nozzles into the bungs.

    I tapped into the intercooler pipe a bit too much for one of the bungs and the threads felt a bit on the loose side so it sweats a bit of oil.....but it is miniscule and doesn't affect boost. The other bung is holding up just fine even at 20 psi.

    Lesson learned = tap in progressively and only as far as needed. Test fit the bung as you go and stop when it feels nice and snug. Do not tap all the way down as the tap shaft is tapered.

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    Thank you guys, I just tapped my chargepipe in the same place its tapped when you buy a cp with meth bungs. The metal was pretty firm so its holding the thread pretty well. I used some thread sealer just in case, and its working great.

    I just order a VTT turbo upgrade for my n55, so this should compliment it very well. wish me luck

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