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  1. #51
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    Having suggested installers is a great idea. I've seen too much botched work to trust the job to just anyone. On the other hand, suggesting there will be no warranty regardless of the circumstances is definitely going to be off-putting to a lot of would be customers. I don't know much about the turbo business but I imagine when things do fail due to an improper install it should be pretty easy to expose that after the fact. Like Chuck's run without oil situation.

    Anyway, I've used LTMW (already on the list) and they do great work, so I'd suggest them to anyone in the socal area. Click here to enlarge
    Burger Motorsports
    Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, N63s, S55s, and S63s!

    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

  2. #52
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    I am glad to see Eurowerks is on this list. WoOOHOo ! Awesome shop, and 20 minute drive, and 5 minutes from one of my offices...lol. Initially I had them as #1 to contact when ready to upgrade.

  3. #53
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Having suggested installers is a great idea. I've seen too much botched work to trust the job to just anyone. On the other hand, suggesting there will be no warranty regardless of the circumstances is definitely going to be off-putting to a lot of would be customers. I don't know much about the turbo business but I imagine when things do fail due to an improper install it should be pretty easy to expose that after the fact. Like Chuck's run without oil situation.

    Anyway, I've used LTMW (already on the list) and they do great work, so I'd suggest them to anyone in the socal area. Click here to enlarge

    basically what I said, except he wont be going off on a tirade without paragraphs.

  4. #54
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    So can't use my harbor freight tools to install your turbos. I really never intended to do the work myself on this car, but after talking with a few shops couple years ago and seeing the crap work from the dealership, I ended up doing everything outside warranty... with mainly harbor freight tools (make sure to keep the receipts).

  5. #55
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge
    basically what I said, except he wont be going off on a tirade without paragraphs.
    Not what you said, and this is said in a way that doesn't have Terry coming off like a troll. Big difference between the 2. Warranty's will always be upheld if a turbo fails because of something we did, but as I stated its not always easy to tell, you seem to think its not "rocket science" again shows you really haven't torn down and inspected too many sets of failed turbos. This dealer network is a good way to ensure quality work, period. You guys can spin it however you want. Cheers

  6. #56
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    Here is where we are at now. I have contacted a lot of people you guys suggested who are not on there as well.

    West Coast:
    LTMW (So Cal)
    VTT (Nor Cal)

    East coast:
    Vac Motorsports (PA)
    Plandome Service (NY)
    RRT Racing (VA)

    South:
    Advanced BMW Repair (Texas, Houston area)
    Treehouse racing (Nashville) Is Nashville considered south or Mid West?

    MidWest:
    Fluid MotorUnion (IL, Chicago area)
    Turnin concepts ( Cinci, OH)

    Southeast:
    Eurowerks (FL)

    Canada:
    PTF / Columbus Automotive Services (Ontario)

  7. #57
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by nafoo Click here to enlarge
    Mike at Collins Automotive
    11814 Champion Forest Dr., Houston, TX
    (281) 444-5900

    He did an excellent job installing my Lockdown Kit and I was planning on having install the Stage 3 turbos once they are ready.
    +1
    2010 e92 M3 Jet Black | DCT | ESS Tuned | Akrapovic Slip-on | Challenge X-pipe | AFE Intake | 18" Volk TE37SL | KW V3 Coilovers | RPI Scoops | Under Drive Pulley

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  8. #58
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    I just want to say one other thing as well. This is basically what terry said, recommended installers we are working closely with. But if you have a shop who does all your work and they aren't on our list, no big deal at all just let us know. We have no problem with you taking your car there, we are not going to tell you to leave the shop you have been going to for years to get our products installed. We are just trying to put together a good list so when we sell turbos, we can also give the person a certified installer in their area. As far as Warranty, we will always honor a warranty if a part fails under the warranty time limit and after inspection is found to be no fault of customer or installer, having quality installers just helps to cut down on the latter.

  9. #59
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    I just want to say one other thing as well. This is basically what terry said, recommended installers we are working closely with. But if you have a shop who does all your work and they aren't on our list, no big deal at all just let us know. We have no problem with you taking your car there, we are not going to tell you to leave the shop you have been going to for years to get our products installed. We are just trying to put together a good list so when we sell turbos, we can also give the person a certified installer in their area. As far as Warranty, we will always honor a warranty if a part fails under the warranty time limit and after inspection is found to be no fault of customer or installer, having quality installers just helps to cut down on the latter.
    this contradicts what was said in the OP. if this is the new stance I doubt anyone would have issue with it.

  10. #60
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    Tennessee considers themselves the south.

    Carma Performance did all of the work on my 335i. Great shop
    http://carma-performance.com/wordpress/

    Track One Motorsports have been highly recommended also. I have not used them before though. My buddy does

    http://www.trackonemotorsports.com/

    both in Nashville, TN
    2011 335is DCT, JB4 + MHD BEF, stage 2 LPFP, e50 + 50/50 meth, FBO, MT ET Streets when needed


  11. #61
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    I would like to note my turbos were installed at a BMW dealership by a BMW master tech who has been there for over 10 years ... it wasn't a side route... the work he did and moves me made make it obvious he was NOT smart or a good mechanic , the work he did was obviously $#@!, but this was at a very popular BMW dealer on a BMW lift that many of the forum users on long island prob go to regularly.... Competition BMW in Smithtown - I have pictures of my car on the lift in the shop with the turbos exposed if this is doubted and its clear its a bmw dealer..

    How it took place was I know the service manager, he allowed his tech to come in on saturday on his day off and work strictly my car. But its the same guy who gets 1000s of cars handed to him by BMW including motors, turbos , etc... This is why the whole thing got ugly because it was not a job that was written up maybe thats where Tony is getting the side route... when i went to pick the car up i had a $#@! ton of vanos and cam correlation codes and a knock from engine and both turbos leaking from center section.

    I flipped a $#@!, than they checked the car in like a regular customer and pretended they never did my turbos.... They went and ahead as a warranty job and changed both cam ledges , 6 injectors, valve cover, vanos solenoids, cam sensors, and gave car back without codes for maybe 16 miles but the Knock still there as well as both turbos still leaking from center section but now he opened one up and caused the wheel to lock up from fkn that up too... at this time it became clear that the car was ran HOT with no oil and caused MASS Damage to the car... a few miles later codes all came back, knock got worse, engine goes bye bye... I go back to BMW and now they flipped the script and they tell me to get lost, with too many mods and "aftermarket turbos" , etc .... no record, no proof, peoples jobs on the line = me getting royally hosed.

    I dont want the perceived image of the guy going to jack the mechanic on the corner charging pennies on the dollar. I paid this $#@! 1000 bucks even with the car messed up... I ordered every single part off of rob's list (required and potentially needed) and handed Tonys stg 2 turbos and these parts to them, and I was lead down a road that i certianly did not want to go on.

    With that said Tony was going to rebuild my turbos for free despite the disaster that took place, charging only for a bigger experimental wheel I was going to use, but due to time constraints I could not wait any longer and Tony refunded my money fully so respect is due there.

    I just wanted to clear that up... what this shows is that anyone can $#@! up but if a shop knows they are on a list of installers and will be getting handed business from it and it will be publicly known they will appreciate that and hopefully do a good job. The list makes sense, but the arguments against it also make sense but those are prob from people who can make that phone call and do what they have to to show they installed things properly.
    Last edited by ChuckD05; 06-06-2013 at 12:14 PM.
    09 6AT 335i Coupe M-Sport - SOLD
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  12. #62
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ChuckD05 Click here to enlarge
    I would like to note my turbos were installed at a BMW dealership by a BMW master tech who has been there for over 10 years ... it wasn't a side route... the work he did and moves me made make it obvious he was NOT smart or a good mechanic , the work he did was obviously $#@!, but this was at a very popular BMW dealer on a BMW lift that many of the forum users on long island prob go to regularly.... Competition BMW in Smithtown - I have pictures of my car on the lift in the shop with the turbos exposed if this is doubted and its clear its a bmw dealer..

    How it took place was I know the service manager, he allowed his tech to come in on saturday on his day off and work strictly my car. But its the same guy who gets 1000s of cars handed to him by BMW including motors, turbos , etc... This is why the whole thing got ugly because it was not a job that was written up maybe thats where Tony is getting the side route... when i went to pick the car up i had a $#@! ton of vanos and cam correlation codes and a knock from engine and both turbos leaking from center section.

    I flipped a $#@!, than they checked the car in like a regular customer and pretended they never did my turbos.... They went and ahead as a warranty job and changed both cam ledges , 6 injectors, valve cover, vanos solenoids, cam sensors, and gave car back without codes for maybe 16 miles but the Knock still there as well as both turbos still leaking from center section but now he opened one up and caused the wheel to lock up from fkn that up too... at this time it became clear that the car was ran HOT with no oil and caused MASS Damage to the car... a few miles later codes all came back, knock got worse, engine goes bye bye... I go back to BMW and now they flipped the script and they tell me to get lost, with too many mods and "aftermarket turbos" , etc .... no record, no proof, peoples jobs on the line = me getting royally hosed.

    I dont want the perceived image of the guy going to jack the mechanic on the corner charging pennies on the dollar. I paid this $#@! 1000 bucks even with the car messed up... I ordered every single part off of rob's list (required and potentially needed) and handed Tonys stg 2 turbos and these parts to them, and I was lead down a road that i certianly did not want to go on.

    With that said Tony was going to rebuild my turbos for free despite the disaster that took place, charging only for a bigger experimental wheel I was going to use, but due to time constraints I could not wait any longer and Tony refunded my money fully so respect is due there.

    I just wanted to clear that up... what this shows is that anyone can $#@! up but if a shop knows they are on a list of installers and will be getting handed business from it and it will be publicly known they will appreciate that and hopefully do a good job. The list makes sense, but the arguments against it also make sense but those are prob from people who can make that phone call and do what they have to to show they installed things properly.
    Sorry Chuck, didn't mean to post any wrong info. I thought he did it at the dealership but on his own time as a side job. This kind of illustrates my point, anything can happen even at the best shops in the world. I honestly think they just got your turbos in and were so excited to test drive your car they forgot a few things, then to add insult to injury after the damage was done they started taking things apart. I'm glad its all working out for you in the end!

  13. #63
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    well it was like a side job in a sense that he took it there on his day off with the permission of his manager or shop forman who *was* my buddy, who was at my wedding , hung with all the time , etc.... so it was a side route per say so you are not entirely inaccurate there but it was performed by the guy showing up for work at BMW on Monday being handed the keys to someones 2011 M3 . 335, etc (has M certs LOL) .... god bless ALL these owners whos cars are touched by that idiot.. lol

    I dropped the car with him friday night he drove to and from BMW where he did the work... met me back at his house with my car in shandles like that... Ill never forget that call... Chuck, did your car studder building boost? Meaning make zero boost due to DME enduces failsafe with 8 vanos faults, cam corelation faults, misfires, and a damaged motor? .... classic

    With that being said I would trust any aftermarket place over any dealer for said reasons above... lesson learned, thats all.
    09 6AT 335i Coupe M-Sport - SOLD
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  14. #64
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    I feel so bad for you Click here to enlarge

    What route are you going now?
    2010 e92 M3 Jet Black | DCT | ESS Tuned | Akrapovic Slip-on | Challenge X-pipe | AFE Intake | 18" Volk TE37SL | KW V3 Coilovers | RPI Scoops | Under Drive Pulley

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  15. #65
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    autocouture nj

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Andrew@activeautowerke Click here to enlarge
    Don't forget Lutz performance in tampa and bimmer sport in ontario Canada.

    Turner in boston - imola motorsports.
    Bimmersport? Really?

  17. #67
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mithiral67 Click here to enlarge
    A & l did two RB installs last month with no problem. He actaully has two bmw mechs do his installs. Tony, that should do to handle yours right?

    I would stay away from A&L like the plague! One of the worst shops you can bring your car to get mechanical work done. I have first hand experience with them and I cannot recommend them at all!
    From all the things I've lost,
    I miss my mind the most!
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  18. #68
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    ^^^^ perfect example lol

    so many shops suck, just one bad or lazy tech is all it takes
    09 6AT 335i Coupe M-Sport - SOLD
    Current - 16 Jeep Wrangler - Few Mods
    Looking for a n54 project e90/e82

  19. #69
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    The biggest issue we have in Chicago is that the Chicago is the third largest metropolitan area in USA. Yet, we do not have a single performance shop that does good work AND is not determined to completely rape your bank account. Its pathetic honestly. The East Coast is so much better in that respect.
    From all the things I've lost,
    I miss my mind the most!
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  20. #70
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by vasillalov Click here to enlarge
    I would stay away from A&L like the plague! One of the worst shops you can bring your car to get mechanical work done. I have first hand experience with them and I cannot recommend them at all!
    what did they mess up. The week my car was in, they did 2 n54 turbo swaps and 4-5 m3 supercharger installs
    2015 - Cayman GTS - Stock
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    2003 and 2005 330i/ci zhp - Stock - Retired

  21. #71
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mithiral67 Click here to enlarge
    what did they mess up. The week my car was in, they did 2 n54 turbo swaps and 4-5 m3 supercharger installs
    Hi James,

    Since you've asked:

    My car went in the beginning of last June after I smashed the front end at BlackHawk Farms. Simple body work: hood, front bumper, fender, headlamp and the underbody plastics. I made an appointment with Anthony @ A&L and had to wait 4 weeks JUST to get the car in. I thought: "Well its worth the wait, since everyone on the local forums praised their work" (more to that at the end)

    Car goes in full 2 weeks AFTER it was scheduled. Their excuse: "Shop got really busy". We'll gloss over that... $#@! happens...

    So they start removing the damaged parts and they discover that I've also managed to crack the radiator support and crush the oil cooler. I was very lucky that there were no fluid leaks and that the front subframe and the suspension components are intact.

    They order the parts and I asked if we can upgrade the front bumper from stock one to BMW performance bumper as it has better cooling. Took them full 3 weeks to figure out what parts they need to order. I had to search online myself and constantly send mails to Anthony with part numbers of what's needed. He'll order something, wait for the parts, install them and then something else would be missing or not fitting correctly. So I would have to research the parts needed for the next step, send him emails, have him order parts and wait for them. This cycle repeated itself a few times.

    FINALLY, after 7 weeks, my car was ready to be picked up at the end of August. I missed the best part of the track season.

    I take my car home and by the time I get home, I notice the oil level goes from full to 1/2 full on the digital meter. Very suspicious. Also, the TPMS light is on and it would not reset.

    I take everything apart and here is what I discovered:

    1. Both TPMS receivers are completely missing. Gone! The wires are just hanging in there inside the bumper.
    2. The brand new oil cooler is leaking badly at the lower connection.
    3. The fender they replaced is not aligned correctly and the wheel is now rubbing on the fender liner
    4. A bunch of plastic rivets for the fender liner are missing
    5. The brake cooling ducts (part of the BMW Performance bumper cooling pack) are not connected. They are just thrown in there in the cavity between the front bumper and the engine bay.
    6. The paint work is horrible: super thin layer of paint and super thin player of clear coat. Multiple paint drips on the front bumper. Insane amounts of orange peel. Basically the front bumper looked like they rattle canned it behind the shop and just slapped it on. No wet sanding, nothing...

    I take everything apart in my garage only to discover that the reason for the massive oil leak is because the morons did not install the o-rings on the oil lines. I looked at the parts they ordered, and the oil rings come in the oil cooler kit.

    After complaining to Anthony @ A&L for another two weeks after I received my car, he finally ships me 2 brand new TPMS receivers and 10 plastic rivets.

    Long story short, I basically had to rebuild the front end of the car myself. This includes doing my own fender alignment. ...and they are supposed to be one of the best body shops in the Midwest and even the country?!?!?!

    In September of last year I talked to a few people in a car show taking place in Montrose Harbor (right where I live). Turns out I am not the only one having issues with A&L. A lot of people are getting burned. They would post comments and reviews on the local forums such as ChitownM, EuroTeknik, etc etc and Anthony will force the moderators to delete them so no negative feedback can be found online.

    EDIT: The shop is extremely disorganized. Half of the shop car bays are taken by cars that are taken apart and have been sitting there for months. Boxes of parts from various cars are lying around everywhere: between the car bays, on shelves, on roof of other cars without any labeling or any sort of organization. For the 7 weeks my car was in their shop, I went to check on the progress 3 times. Everyone is running around with their heads cut off. Parts are constantly lost or misplaced. The shop is a nightmare.

    I am absolutely astounded as to how they managed to get all of the IND cars to look so great
    Last edited by vasillalov; 06-07-2013 at 08:03 AM.
    From all the things I've lost,
    I miss my mind the most!
    Click here to enlarge

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    Ugh, yea on the body work side, they seem pretty slow. For that I wouldn't use them. But the purely mechanical side, they have been great for me. Oh well.
    2015 - Cayman GTS - Stock
    2011 - 335is e92 - Cobb PTF E40/Rob Beck/AR/Helix (458 rwtq and 479 rwhp) - Retired
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    2008 - 335i e92 - Cobb/AR/Helix/OSS (384 rwtq and 356 rwhp) - Retired
    2003 and 2005 330i/ci zhp - Stock - Retired

  23. #73
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by vasillalov Click here to enlarge
    Hi James,

    Since you've asked:

    My car went in the beginning of last June after I smashed the front end at BlackHawk Farms. Simple body work: hood, front bumper, fender, headlamp and the underbody plastics. I made an appointment with Anthony @ A&L and had to wait 4 weeks JUST to get the car in. I thought: "Well its worth the wait, since everyone on the local forums praised their work" (more to that at the end)

    Car goes in full 2 weeks AFTER it was scheduled. Their excuse: "Shop got really busy". We'll gloss over that... $#@! happens...

    So they start removing the damaged parts and they discover that I've also managed to crack the radiator support and crush the oil cooler. I was very lucky that there were no fluid leaks and that the front subframe and the suspension components are intact.

    They order the parts and I asked if we can upgrade the front bumper from stock one to BMW performance bumper as it has better cooling. Took them full 3 weeks to figure out what parts they need to order. I had to search online myself and constantly send mails to Anthony with part numbers of what's needed. He'll order something, wait for the parts, install them and then something else would be missing or not fitting correctly. So I would have to research the parts needed for the next step, send him emails, have him order parts and wait for them. This cycle repeated itself a few times.

    FINALLY, after 7 weeks, my car was ready to be picked up at the end of August. I missed the best part of the track season.

    I take my car home and by the time I get home, I notice the oil level goes from full to 1/2 full on the digital meter. Very suspicious. Also, the TPMS light is on and it would not reset.

    I take everything apart and here is what I discovered:

    1. Both TPMS receivers are completely missing. Gone! The wires are just hanging in there inside the bumper.
    2. The brand new oil cooler is leaking badly at the lower connection.
    3. The fender they replaced is not aligned correctly and the wheel is now rubbing on the fender liner
    4. A bunch of plastic rivets for the fender liner are missing
    5. The brake cooling ducts (part of the BMW Performance bumper cooling pack) are not connected. They are just thrown in there in the cavity between the front bumper and the engine bay.
    6. The paint work is horrible: super thin layer of paint and super thin player of clear coat. Multiple paint drips on the front bumper. Insane amounts of orange peel. Basically the front bumper looked like they rattle canned it behind the shop and just slapped it on. No wet sanding, nothing...

    I take everything apart in my garage only to discover that the reason for the massive oil leak is because the morons did not install the o-rings on the oil lines. I looked at the parts they ordered, and the oil rings come in the oil cooler kit.

    After complaining to Anthony @ A&L for another two weeks after I received my car, he finally ships me 2 brand new TPMS receivers and 10 plastic rivets.

    Long story short, I basically had to rebuild the front end of the car myself. This includes doing my own fender alignment. ...and they are supposed to be one of the best body shops in the Midwest and even the country?!?!?!

    In September of last year I talked to a few people in a car show taking place in Montrose Harbor (right where I live). Turns out I am not the only one having issues with A&L. A lot of people are getting burned. They would post comments and reviews on the local forums such as ChitownM, EuroTeknik, etc etc and Anthony will force the moderators to delete them so no negative feedback can be found online.

    EDIT: The shop is extremely disorganized. Half of the shop car bays are taken by cars that are taken apart and have been sitting there for months. Boxes of parts from various cars are lying around everywhere: between the car bays, on shelves, on roof of other cars without any labeling or any sort of organization. For the 7 weeks my car was in their shop, I went to check on the progress 3 times. Everyone is running around with their heads cut off. Parts are constantly lost or misplaced. The shop is a nightmare.

    I am absolutely astounded as to how they managed to get all of the IND cars to look so great
    Ok wait I'm trying to understand they do all the IND stuff? Is this IND's autobody arm? Because all of IND's care are freaking perfect down to the smallest detail.
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    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
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  24. #74
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Ok wait I'm trying to understand they do all the IND stuff? Is this IND's autobody arm? Because all of IND's care are freaking perfect down to the smallest detail.

    Yeah you guessed it right. IND, A&L, Victory Road are all related to each other. I think IND is basically the online presence of A&L Autobody. Their online reputation is excellent but completely unsubstantiated in my experience. That's why I wanted to get my car done there. Big mistake... Click here to enlarge
    From all the things I've lost,
    I miss my mind the most!
    Click here to enlarge

  25. #75
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    South Miami - Miami Performance Inc.

    They work on all cars but are BMW master techs that have done some custom installs on other BMWs.

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