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    4 out of 4 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No

    FMIC Characteristics (flow/pressure)

    Hokay, so...after searching all of the googles and doing several searches here I've decided to just create a new thread. (my first! thread-creating cherry-popping?)

    I've just ordered the Cobb AP and I'm rolling around what else I want to do to the car for now. Don't worry...this is not a "what mods are best for 1000whp" post lol...I'm looking for actual data (if it exists somewhere on the interwebs) on FMICs. I see there are a few options for the N54 and everyone has their opinions on which is best based on looks/function/cost/installation and such so I'm trying to get a hold of some data about flow rates and pressure drops across the various, including stock, intercooler options that are available.

    In my searching I've seen a couple different logs of air temps before and after installation of an aftermarket FMIC and they all seem to convey the same message: upgraded intercoolers reduce intake air temp. Well, I'd be pretty surprised if a larger heat exchanger didn't...well...exchange more heat. But the temp differences that I can see plotted on these various charts are all dependent on many variable including ambient temps, existing modifications, existing engine temps, and many other things.

    I'd be really interested to know the dP and flow rate for the FMICs out there. The 2 I seem to come across in these forums most frequently are the VRSF and the ETS ones...anyone got any info? Doesn't have to be limited to just these 2, these are just the 2 I keep seeing.

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    Intercoolers are not as complicated as people like to make them out to be imo.

    I am just going to pick up a Big Tom and be done with it. Never heard anyone complain who owned one and it is the least expensive with the largest volume and largest frontal surface area which is more important than depth from my reading. Probably overkill for stockers but upgraded stock or single/vtt it should be a perfect fit.

    If you don't want to cut and want a direct bolt on the 5'' VRSF is the best bang for your buck.

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    http://forums.n54tech.com/showthread.php?t=10503 some logs from a big tom as you were asking for data it sounds like.

    At the end of the day all of them will be better than stock.

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    Yeah I was looking at both the 5" and the 7" VRSFs...read a negative post or 2 so I'm still trying to compile all the data I can. Thanks for that link I'll definitely check that out.

    The ETS 7" has some good temp data up on their site so that was helpful as well but they didn't have any pressure/flow data up there.

    I think you're right though - it seems like all of the options keep the temps lower to varying degrees. Still, all the data I've seen applies only to that specific setup. I don't have the same setup as any chart I've seen so far so, while i can estimate how a FMIC would perform on my car, it'd be nice to know what I flow, what the intercooler can flow, and the pressure drop across the heat exchanger. But the charts I just saw from the ETS website do paint a pretty promising picture for managing air temps sooooo Click here to enlarge

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    Also, just found info on a Helix Stepped FMIC: 0.5psi dP at 600cfm.

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    Not to thread jack, but I have also been looking into an upgraded intercooler. My question is about the vrsf 5" and 7". We know the advantage for the 5" is ease of installation, but what is the drawback of going smaller? If I ever do a turbo upgrade I would go no larger than RB's, so would the 5" suffice?

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    I know @JoshBoody has done some flow testing with various cores. I think he determined AMS flowed the best with least pressure drop, while Helix was the best at IAT supression.

    I personally have a Helix and couldn't be happier. I consistently have lower IAT's than people in my area with Dinan, ETS, and VRSF's.

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    There's lots of Helix data on E90 & like E90Company said, it has the best IAT suppression out of the mainstream options. The stepped 5" core (Helix, COBB, Wagner) is the best FMIC option that involves minimum cutting (unlike the 7" cores), but you make a small sacrifice with pressure drops.

    There's probably a lot of data (somewhere) regarding the ETS & AMS FMICs since those are fairly popular as well.
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    You can also order this in 4'' deep if you want. So you get a big tom but with brackets, piping, couplers, meth bung, shroud, etc:

    http://www.cxracing.com/mm5/merchant...&Category_Code

    There is no reason an intercooler should cost more than $5-600 bucks for an N54.

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    There is a ton of FMIC stuff here, just search.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Torgus Click here to enlarge
    You can also order this in 4'' deep if you want. So you get a big tom but with brackets, piping, couplers, meth bung, shroud, etc:

    http://www.cxracing.com/mm5/merchant...&Category_Code

    There is no reason an intercooler should cost more than $5-600 bucks for an N54.

    Does anyone know the dimensions of the CORE itself?

    i'm thinking i'll just get a really good core from somewhere and get a shop to weld on some end tanks and brackets for me lol
    boop

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    Does anyone know the dimensions of the CORE itself?

    i'm thinking i'll just get a really good core from somewhere and get a shop to weld on some end tanks and brackets for me lol
    I know the dimensions of the CX Racing core...They are available in:

    Depth: 3.5", also available in 4" deep
    Height: 12"
    Width: 18"
    Inlets and outlets: 2.5", also available in 3"...

    Hope that helps...
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rooringhusky Click here to enlarge
    I know the dimensions of the CX Racing core...They are available in:

    Depth: 3.5", also available in 4" deep
    Height: 12"
    Width: 18"
    Inlets and outlets: 2.5", also available in 3"...

    Hope that helps...
    awesome, thanks!
    boop

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90Company Click here to enlarge
    I know @JoshBoody has done some flow testing with various cores. I think he determined AMS flowed the best with least pressure drop, while Helix was the best at IAT supression.

    I personally have a Helix and couldn't be happier. I consistently have lower IAT's than people in my area with Dinan, ETS, and VRSF's.
    Oh that's a low blow....please explain how your car is tuned to get such low IATs ? Try loading Cobb Stage 2+ race gas map, I will pay for your race gas, and run WOT logs gears 3rd to 6th and see what you get

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BuraQ Click here to enlarge
    Oh that's a low blow....please explain how your car is tuned to get such low IATs ? Try loading Cobb Stage 2+ race gas map, I will pay for your race gas, and run WOT logs gears 3rd to 6th and see what you get
    It's not the tuning, it's the hardware that gives me the lower IAT's than you. Helix is more efficient than the Dinan core and dousn't have the restrictive stock connectors like yours does (reducing pressure drop). Maxed out load targets in tuning, higher than the load I have seen in your logs. I don't short shift like you do, all you need to do is a pull going throughout the RPM band to really see what's happening, not shift at 5500 in logs.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90Company Click here to enlarge
    It's not the tuning, it's the hardware that gives me the lower IAT's than you. Helix is more efficient than the Dinan core and dousn't have the restrictive stock connectors like yours does (reducing pressure drop). Maxed out load targets in tuning, higher than the load I have seen in your logs. I don't short shift like you do, all you need to do is a pull going throughout the RPM band to really see what's happening, not shift at 5500 in logs.
    Amazing that you have a loss of memory for being young as you are, but I just recently, within the last 5 months, started shifting at 5500 RPM instead of 6500 RPMs like I use to for an entire year. Shifting at 5500 RPMs is what lowered my ET times and increased trap speeds. Just as how you don't want to do WOT runs from 3rd - 6th gears to "REALLY" show the true colors of the Helix FMIC.


    You don't have 1/4 mile logs to really show a comparison with other FMIC's under the same atmospheric conditions in the current instance. I am very interested to make the comparison but I want to make sure the data is unbiased with no finagled WOT runs.

    If you say tuning doesn't affect IAT's then why don't you load up the Stage 2+ OTS map and put it to the test ? Full tank of race gas on me. You live just down the street from me. I am sure Helix would also like to see the out come also. I am not asking for a race, I gave that up with you, just asking for confirmed unbiased authentic data.

    @Mekong84, the Helix FMIC is one of the top of the line FMIC you can get. I am so impressed with their FMIC product I am getting one for my Mini Cooper. Don't let the discussion between my neighbor and myself detour you in anyway. I am just looking for unbiased data to back up the statement he made in this thread

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    http://cp-e.com/sites/default/files/files/n54FMIC.pdf

    Just found this guy...THIS is the kind of info I'm looking for. This is a pretty good write up with some legit data. Measured temps, pressures, trends, and plots based on engine speeds and boost pressures. Efficiency calculations eliminating ambient advantages and a comparison to the stock FMIC. I don't really want to spend $900 on an intercooler but unless i can find similar data on some (or any) other ones out there I may have just been sold. Good stuff, Mr. Gartenhaus.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BuraQ Click here to enlarge
    Amazing that you have a loss of memory for being young as you are, but I just recently, within the last 5 months, started shifting at 5500 RPM instead of 6500 RPMs like I use to for an entire year. Shifting at 5500 RPMs is what lowered my ET times and increased trap speeds. Just as how you don't want to do WOT runs from 3rd - 6th gears to "REALLY" show the true colors of the Helix FMIC.


    You don't have 1/4 mile logs to really show a comparison with other FMIC's under the same atmospheric conditions in the current instance. I am very interested to make the comparison but I want to make sure the data is unbiased with no finagled WOT runs.

    If you say tuning doesn't affect IAT's then why don't you load up the Stage 2+ OTS map and put it to the test ? Full tank of race gas on me. You live just down the street from me. I am sure Helix would also like to see the out come also. I am not asking for a race, I gave that up with you, just asking for confirmed unbiased authentic data.

    @Mekong84 , the Helix FMIC is one of the top of the line FMIC you can get. I am so impressed with their FMIC product I am getting one for my Mini Cooper. Don't let the discussion between my neighbor and myself detour you in anyway. I am just looking for unbiased data to back up the statement he made in this thread
    You just don't get it. I don't have time to argue with stupidity, I'm sorry.
    Last edited by E90Company; 06-10-2013 at 03:28 PM.

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    has anyone ever used bell intercoolers? been browsing their site a bit and it looks like they can pretty well make literally any size/shape/mount/bracketed intercooler you want... and not TOO expensive?
    boop

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    has anyone ever used bell intercoolers? been browsing their site a bit and it looks like they can pretty well make literally any size/shape/mount/bracketed intercooler you want... and not TOO expensive?
    No, but why not go with an off the shelf that you know fits and works? They are inexpensive for off the self intercoolers.

    If everything fits and you are lucky maybe you save $100 doing it yourself but it the head ache worth the $$$?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Torgus Click here to enlarge
    No, but why not go with an off the shelf that you know fits and works? They are inexpensive for off the self intercoolers.

    If everything fits and you are lucky maybe you save $100 doing it yourself but it the head ache worth the $$$?
    well, what should be a superior core for slightly less = better intercooler AND saving money?

    how would that not be awesome?

    and that's not even taking into account that if someone (me probably at this stage) were to get it and show awesome results... group buys from bell tend to get pretty deep discounts.
    boop

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    In my experience, ams and cp-e have the best flow (cp-e published the white pages and data), while helix and cobb have the best iat suppression. The dinan intercooler has those guides that funnel air to the fins so i'd imagine iat supression with that one would be decent as well. same goes for ER with the cf fins that direct airflow. Really, anything is better than stock.
    Last edited by Stucks; 06-15-2013 at 12:54 PM.
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    That CPE pdf is legit. Very good info there and well presented.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by V8Bait Click here to enlarge
    That CPE pdf is legit. Very good info there and well presented.
    CP-E's papers, development, and presentation don't get enough credit.

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    I'm thinking Wagner with stock connectors.

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