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  1. #26
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    This post by LostMarine is hidden due to excessive negative ratings. Click expand to view the post.



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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    1) There is no throttle closure in these logs. Are you feeling OK? Boost control is spot on where it should be.
    2) This is an E60 map targeting close to stoich at lower RPM utilizing lean spool. He can switch to the "race" map for much richer AFR targets but I've found these leaner targets especially down low and during spool provide much stronger response on road with similar timing stability when using a heavy ethanol mix. I run ethanol often so have plenty of experience with it. Ultimately it's the customers choice though. The RB turbo "race" flash runs the "traditional" air/fuel targets.
    3) In my experience MS109 does not make more power than E60 all else being equal. But MS109 does offer a higher effective octane which means you can throw a little more advance at it.
    4) With your tuning & advice in place based on recent dynos & 1/2 mile runs he'd probably be looking at around 475rw and 150mph in the 1/2 mile... Click here to enlarge
    Thanks for clarification

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    The discussions are good and how we learn... if there was no vendor, member back and forth I would have half the knowledge I have now. I do think DZ takes any opportunity to downgrade the competition though, and many times its not very accurate... either intentionally or misunderstanding I'm not sure sometimes. But I say please continue... it can be entertaining.

    Nice ride OP!

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    BOOYAH!?

    am i allowed to market that? Cant wait to see what ChuckD does with them.. (thought he had VTT's though, odd)

    either way, another happy RB customer here, 500+ is no joke. Gott alove a guy that tracks it, dyno's, and posts logs.

    Some people would rather not post logs because, well, i dunno why, scared i guess Click here to enlarge but great work you have their, a winning combination
    Thanks man!

    I can tell you why one would not post logs and why I have second guessed it after posting mine...

    Terry has been a great help in getting the car dialed in and troubleshooting. I would not want to post something that would compromise all his efforts and add fuel to the tuner war fire. I imagine that the other tuners/customers have a similar relationship and don't want to hurt that.
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  5. #30
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    I'll try to make this as non-bashful as possible and just merely to clarify the information here for @trickcruiser's sake.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    1) There is no throttle closure in these logs. Are you feeling OK? Boost control is spot on where it should be.
    Throttle closures are certainly there although not major by looking at your Throttle log. Otherwise it should just be a flat line. If this log was plotted with 0-100 scaling instead of 0-50 it'd show better. I guess that scaling makes it look only half as bad.

    Boost control is OK at best and certainly not great. There's boost overshooting target from 5-5.7k rpm by about 1psi. When that happens with Cobb we let it induce throttle closures as boost isn't where it needs to be. In that log you're letting it happily overshoot without controlling boost. 1psi overshoot at peak power is considered ok I guess especially when it provides an additional 12-15whp and doesn't break things. On a big turbo setup overshoots like that could be detrimental to the motor but I guess you could always tighten up the PID in that case and spend more time on custom tuning it.

    @trickcruiser, if you're able to scale your log 0-100 instead of 0-50 and repost it it'd outline what I'm referring to a bit better. You can also post a csv log and I'll graph it for you if you don't have time. Obviously do this only if it matters to you and getting the most out of your car. Otherwise screw me and Terry and just have fun with your car Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    2) This is an E60 map targeting close to stoich at lower RPM utilizing lean spool. He can switch to the "race" map for much richer AFR targets but I've found these leaner targets especially down low and during spool provide much stronger response on road with similar timing stability when using a heavy ethanol mix. I run ethanol often so have plenty of experience with it. Ultimately it's the customers choice though. The RB turbo "race" flash runs the "traditional" air/fuel targets.
    If you look at your previous glory dyno, this was on stock turbos you'll see that you in fact don't target 17:1 AFR. Here's a link to a post you've made a while back:

    http://www.bimmerboost.com/showthrea...testing-450whp

    Those runs were in fact a bit better as there was no lean runs happening. If this was 2 years ago we'd be thinking its fuel system limitations. Today we know this isn't the case.

    Your lean run comment is a little strange also. There's two runs (not sure if different gears) posted in the log above. First run shows AFR being richer than the second run with boost being very similar between the two and not far off target. At 18psi down low your AFR is still at 15:1 at best and that is when you're on target, in other words, you're outside lean spool mode (if you're really that brave to use it for the minimal advantages it provides especially in your tuning approach where you don't spike boost down low but build it up gradually towards peak power RPM range 5200-5700rpm).

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    3) In my experience MS109 does not make more power than E60 all else being equal. But MS109 does offer a higher effective octane which means you can throw a little more advance at it.
    He'll make a bit more power with MS109 in there and some more timing. Are you running 10deg of timing to 11.5-12 on E60? I'd like to think there's some timing corrections happening there as timing is below MBT with that much octane and you could make some more power there on this car without touching boost. In fact probably around 15whp more with about 12.5-13deg of timing at peak power.

    4) With your tuning & advice in place based on recent dynos & 1/2 mile runs he'd probably be looking at around 475rw and 150mph in the 1/2 mile... Click here to enlarge[/QUOTE]

    Not all customers are looking to max out their setups. That is the case for example with @mithiral67's dyno. He is running ~17psi making ~480whp and per his request he wanted to keep things conservative with RBs and not do more than 450wtq max. Why does everyone need to end up with smoking turbos a month or two down the road like I've seen a number of JB cars do in the last while. Check some facebook pages if you don't believe me. Too bad more people don't post up things on the forums when they actually happen from pushing their turbos with as much duty cycle to the wastegates as you've allowed to happen on the latest JB firmware. 85% wgdc will not be pretty especially on RBs. You don't have to take my word for it of course.
    Click here to enlarge

  6. #31
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JoshBoody Click here to enlarge
    The discussions are good and how we learn... if there was no vendor, member back and forth I would have half the knowledge I have now. I do think DZ takes any opportunity to downgrade the competition though, and many times its not very accurate... either intentionally or misunderstanding I'm not sure sometimes. But I say please continue... it can be entertaining.

    Nice ride OP!
    I do think @JoshBoody is an idiot and also very entertaining at times lol
    Click here to enlarge

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Great numbers Click here to enlarge

    how is ur trans with the high torque?

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 135idct Click here to enlarge
    Great numbers Click here to enlarge

    how is ur trans with the high torque?
    Thanks, so far it seems to not have any issue.
    Daily, I drive the car with boost dialed back to 18lbs with the hope to let both the turbos and transmission live a long and healthy life.
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  9. #34
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    Great numbers bro. Good that you included a log with that.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JoshBoody Click here to enlarge
    The discussions are good and how we learn... if there was no vendor, member back and forth I would have half the knowledge I have now. I do think DZ takes any opportunity to downgrade the competition though, and many times its not very accurate... either intentionally or misunderstanding I'm not sure sometimes. But I say please continue... it can be entertaining.

    Nice ride OP!
    Josh Boody is prob my favorite "tuner" on any forum. I made a post a while back telling him since he is so talented as I tuner I would like to have him tune for us. The thread was laced with sarcasm and he thought I was serious and sent me a long winded PM about it. Josh, since you are such a good tuner, obviously so much better then the tuner who holds the record for stock frame turbos as well as upgraded turbos. Can you provide us with some logs, dyno graphs, WHP records, 1/4 times, of cars you have tuned. I mean you know so much about it I am sure you have some real world tuning experience and since you know so much more about it then D, you surely hold at least a couple records in WHP or track times. We await these results.

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    lol, here we go with VTT tuning strategy: MORE BOOST, I WANT MORE BOOST!

    should probably learn by now, stick to what is your realm- hardware, not software

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  13. #38
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    @trickcruiser

    Awesome setup, if the car is running well and you're happy, that's what matters.

  14. #39
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    Josh Boody is prob my favorite "tuner" on any forum. I made a post a while back telling him since he is so talented as I tuner I would like to have him tune for us. The thread was laced with sarcasm and he thought I was serious and sent me a long winded PM about it. Josh, since you are such a good tuner, obviously so much better then the tuner who holds the record for stock frame turbos as well as upgraded turbos. Can you provide us with some logs, dyno graphs, WHP records, 1/4 times, of cars you have tuned. I mean you know so much about it I am sure you have some real world tuning experience and since you know so much more about it then D, you surely hold at least a couple records in WHP or track times. We await these results.
    Actually my response to you was NOT me tuning anything, although it would have been fun. And yes, understood the sarcasm but I was trying to be helpful. I just stated my thoughts and even suggested that you could do it yourself with some community help… great promotion for very flexible hardware package. Never did get any logs from your tuner.

    Now I will go back and read DZ's (a real tuner) long winded response.

  15. #40
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
    I'll try to make this as non-bashful as possible and just merely to clarify the information here for @trickcruiser 's sake.
    1) The JB4 throttle scaling is set to always show 100% at the top of the log regardless of the X axis setting. Same is true for PWM, pedal input, meth flow, and other variables that are always between 0-100%. Here is a log from the OPs car running a different flash map on the dyno. Without lean spool. Temps were ~30 degrees higher and power output was about the same. If you think throttle moving from 100 to 99 to 98 to 100 again is "throttle closure" then there isn't much I can do to help you. The higher the boost levels the more quickly the JB4 engages the throttle for trimming. Trimming is 20%+, closure is 40%+. 1-3% is just signal noise.

    2) Boost is right on target and the PID is working perfectly.

    3) On our 450rw stock turbo no meth runs the low end air/fuel targets are basically identical as shown in the logs in that link.
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    Last edited by Terry@BMS; 06-04-2013 at 12:54 PM.
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    I think bms is this tottering empire, and a new era has begun prottuning cobb.


    but I'm using the g5 demomento iso with flash bms, despite the great help of me terry Click here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlarge
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    lol, here we go with VTT tuning strategy: MORE BOOST, I WANT MORE BOOST!

    should probably learn by now, stick to what is your realm- hardware, not software
    Lol, here we go with cool story bro making zero sense again. The guy called out Dzenno on his tuning strategy as being bad. Since he is such a good tuner he must have some logs and records under his belt. But way to not understand the concept of irony. Cool story bro!!

  18. #43
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JoshBoody Click here to enlarge
    Actually my response to you was NOT me tuning anything, although it would have been fun. And yes, understood the sarcasm but I was trying to be helpful. I just stated my thoughts and even suggested that you could do it yourself with some community help… great promotion for very flexible hardware package. Never did get any logs from your tuner.

    Now I will go back and read DZ's (a real tuner) long winded response.
    Josh, you chime in just about every single thread regarding tuning, always criticizing the tuners, and telling them how it should be done, what they did wrong. You usually go after Dzenno to make your points. My request still stands. You being such a knowledgeable tuner that you can pick apart the top tuners in this platform, you have to I mean have to have at least a few cars running around with your tuning on them making more power then the guys you are saying do not know what they are doing. So as I said we will await your graphs, logs, and time slips. As far as seeing my logs. Once you get some Dyno graphs out in the open, then we will worry about logs. Lets start with that. You have D's Dyno graphs, lets see yours.

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    Great job with the car, posting the logs and dyno results!!

    You will love the Vbox..!!!
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    Impressive results, RB turbos FTW!Click here to enlarge

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    @trickcruiser Very nice results. You really gotta love those RBs @ 21 psi, I know I do Click here to enlarge


    Will look forward to your Vbox times as well. When you get one, please share those times as well. I would love to compare our times.
    I have given up on trying to compare US and EU whp numbers, so all I can say that on my last dyno session I put down 525 rwhp, and on the same dyno the same day a stock E90 M3 put down 342 rwhp, and a stock Audi RS4 put down 340 awhp.

    Anyway, I think my Vbox verified 60-130 mph time of 7.55 sec speaks for itself as far as the real rwhp level. Car was/is full weight and I'm 250#, and tune by PTF/Dzenno (COBB). Not trying to get involved in any tuner war here, both Terry and Dzenno have tuned my car and both do and have done a great job so far IMHO.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    Josh, you chime in just about every single thread regarding tuning, always criticizing the tuners, and telling them how it should be done, what they did wrong. You usually go after Dzenno to make your points. My request still stands. You being such a knowledgeable tuner that you can pick apart the top tuners in this platform, you have to I mean have to have at least a few cars running around with your tuning on them making more power then the guys you are saying do not know what they are doing. So as I said we will await your graphs, logs, and time slips. As far as seeing my logs. Once you get some Dyno graphs out in the open, then we will worry about logs. Lets start with that. You have D's Dyno graphs, lets see yours.
    Not selling anything and never said I was a tuner… just here to help.

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    I just wish BMW would go back to being N/A. None of this crap would have happened.

    To actually contribute to the thread though. Solid results. Quick question for those in the know, how often are the "pushed" RB cars blowing turbos? At what level are the turbos realistically working too hard? Is it 500? What is the recommended safety zone for the RB turbos?
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    2 out of 3 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by StinkyM Click here to enlarge
    To actually contribute to the thread though. Solid results. Quick question for those in the know, how often are the "pushed" RB cars blowing turbos? At what level are the turbos realistically working too hard? Is it 500? What is the recommended safety zone for the RB turbos?
    I'd like to know the same thing...I'm guessing 18psi max of boost tapering to 15-16 psi at redline..
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by StinkyM Click here to enlarge
    Quick question for those in the know, how often are the "pushed" RB cars blowing turbos? At what level are the turbos realistically working too hard? Is it 500? What is the recommended safety zone for the RB turbos?
    Looks like a couple of relevant questions here StinkyM.

    Unfortunately, the emotion attached to the turbo kits around here may cloud the answers you receive in the pursuit of alienating the competing vendor(s).

    Sad, but true.

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