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    Post VAC Motorsports: Four (4) S65s getting sleeves and much more (Low compression builds)

    Click here to enlarge

    Coming up:
    VAC/Darton sleeves
    CP Forged Pistons (lower compression for big boost)
    Carrillo Forged Rods
    ARP hardware
    VAC main/rod bearings
    VAC oil pan baffles
    more goodies Click here to enlarge

    We got 2 S54s from this client as well...more on that in another thread.

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    saw this earlier. i lost out on that one Click here to enlarge

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    Four of these eh? Paired to VF kits I take it?

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    What is the point of this? It sounds like people are making 750 plus hp without going low compression no? Just curious. Or is it simply to build the biggest numbers? Hate reading these threads and then feeling like my 385 whp is absolutely anemicClick here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Wannbm5 Click here to enlarge
    What is the point of this? It sounds like people are making 750 plus hp without going low compression no? Just curious. Or is it simply to build the biggest numbers? Hate reading these threads and then feeling like my 385 whp is absolutely anemicClick here to enlarge
    The point of this is when you want to be able to support big horsepower. Notice the built motor setups without sleeves are stuck in the 6XX wheel range. That's also partially due to the blower being maxed.

    Regardless, for peace of mind and to support much more horsepower you want the block strengthened. The S65 material just isn't as strong as the S54.

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    Thats wicked. Amazing work guys.
    Click here to enlarge



    EURO 04 M3 Current Mods:GC DAs, Eibach Sways, PF RTAB's, RE RCAs, INTRAVEE II, Black Roundels, ///MFEST Badges, Depo's, Screen protector for NAV display, VCSL Bumper + Race Lip & CF Trunk & CF Rear Diffusor, DIETZ TV in Motion, SS= V1 Headers + catless pipes + X-Pipe + SS Sport Exhaust, Z8 Starter Button, Lamin-X, OEM CSL interior, OEM CSL Steering, OEM CSL Intake, OEM CSL Roof, MSS54HP + OEM CSL Tune, BBS CH's, LIGHTWERKZ, 355mm ST40 BBK, BW Oil Cooler....

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    Unreal. You guys are killing it with these kits. Makes me think twice about trying to get a biturbo AMG car. A built + blown S65 seems like the ultimate weapon, since it already comes installed in one of the best chassis money can buy right now.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by leveraged sellout Click here to enlarge
    Unreal. You guys are killing it with these kits. Makes me think twice about trying to get a biturbo AMG car. A built + blown S65 seems like the ultimate weapon, since it already comes installed in one of the best chassis money can buy right now.
    Think about the S65 with turbos.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Think about the S65 with turbos.
    I have, sounds appealing. Is there any credible (read: not ASR type) work being done in that direction? Also, the one thing I hate is the lack of throttle response, the point you made in your thread about the power curve characteristics of a centrifugal SC are right on, and seem to fit this engine. If its possible to get to 1k at the wheels with an SC I feel like that would be my ideal setup. Especially with VAC pushing displacement to 4600 cc's.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by leveraged sellout Click here to enlarge
    I have, sounds appealing. Is there any credible (read: not ASR type) work being done in that direction? Also, the one thing I hate is the lack of throttle response, the point you made in your thread about the power curve characteristics of a centrifugal SC are right on, and seem to fit this engine. If its possible to get to 1k at the wheels with an SC I feel like that would be my ideal setup. Especially with VAC pushing displacement to 4600 cc's.
    Yes there is Gintani is doing it same people building my car.

    Yes, it's possible to get 1k at the wheels with an SC.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Yes there is Gintani is doing it same people building my car.

    Yes, it's possible to get 1k at the wheels with an SC.
    Good to know, I've bouncing back and forth for different ideas where to go next, but an SC M3 seems like the way to go.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by leveraged sellout Click here to enlarge
    Good to know, I've bouncing back and forth for different ideas where to go next, but an SC M3 seems like the way to go.
    I'd say turbo M3 honestly but I need to drive one first.

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    I wish more of these builds were more "documented" on the forums.... Awesome stuff
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I'd say turbo M3 honestly but I need to drive one first.
    I just feel like the turbos would take away from the M feel. Plus the S65 is already hard to make loud, the turbos would really take the edge off.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by leveraged sellout Click here to enlarge
    I just feel like the turbos would take away from the M feel. Plus the S65 is already hard to make loud, the turbos would really take the edge off.
    My S65 is extremely loud not sure what you mean. It's easy to make loud. It's too loud.

    The centri takes away from the M feel it kills throttle response.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by leveraged sellout Click here to enlarge
    Plus the S65 is already hard to make loud, the turbos would really take the edge off.
    Ummmm...... What are you talking about?? Just swapping out the rear section completely changes everything

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    The centri takes away from the M feel it kills throttle response.
    And you think a turbo will give better throttle response? Click here to enlarge Blower selection can completely change the response, and IMO the Vortech s/c's are a bad pairing (from drivability standpoint) since they don't amplify the motor until you're over 6.5ks
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    Ummmm...... What are you talking about?? Just swapping out the rear section completely changes everything

    I've heard plenty of M3s and C63s. I never said, and didn't mean, that the S65 sounds bad. But it certainly is no M156. I'm just saying that with turbos, it would be hard to make it sound as good. Which is perfectly logical.

    And you think a turbo will give better throttle response? Click here to enlarge Blower selection can completely change the response, and IMO the Vortech s/c's are a bad pairing (from drivability standpoint) since they don't amplify the motor until you're over 6.5ks
    Where did I say that? I just believe that the power characteristics of a supercharger are more linear than turbochargers. It seems like the Gintani setup is quite linear. And, no matter what, unless you're putting tiny turbos on (in which case, what is the point), you will not get the same response or curve shape from a turbo as from a supercharger, given the same power and boost levels. Don't get me wrong, I love turbos. Just not so sure I'd want an M car with turbos.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by leveraged sellout Click here to enlarge
    Where did I say that? I just believe that the power characteristics of a supercharger are more linear than turbochargers.
    In that case, 100% agree that a centri best compliments the M Motors (power increasing with RPMs)

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by leveraged sellout Click here to enlarge
    Don't get me wrong, I love turbos. Just not so sure I'd want an M car with turbos.
    The biggest argument for the turbos is power potential basically doubles (with appropriately sized turbos). And because the S65 revs out to 8.5ks, even if you give up some low-end turbo lag, you've still got a ton of RPMs left to enjoy a usable powerband.
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  19. #19
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    And you think a turbo will give better throttle response?
    Compared to a belt driven centrifugal? Yes.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    Blower selection can completely change the response, and IMO the Vortech s/c's are a bad pairing (from drivability standpoint) since they don't amplify the motor until you're over 6.5ks
    The blower selection will change the mid-range torque curve but it is still a manually spun impeller. Have you ever driven one?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by leveraged sellout Click here to enlarge
    Where did I say that? I just believe that the power characteristics of a supercharger are more linear than turbochargers. It seems like the Gintani setup is quite linear. And, no matter what, unless you're putting tiny turbos on (in which case, what is the point), you will not get the same response or curve shape from a turbo as from a supercharger, given the same power and boost levels. Don't get me wrong, I love turbos. Just not so sure I'd want an M car with turbos.
    People are of the opinion because the curve looks nice and boost builds progressively that the centri is the best "compliment" but the reality is it doesn't drive much like the stock car. It loses its response and a positive displacement would really better amplify the feel than anything else.

    The curves between the turbo and SC will be quite different but the turbos also will have different throttle response down low.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    People are of the opinion because the curve looks nice and boost builds progressively that the centri is the best "compliment" but the reality is it doesn't drive much like the stock car. It loses its response and a positive displacement would really better amplify the feel than anything else.

    The curves between the turbo and SC will be quite different but the turbos also will have different throttle response down low.
    Do you find a lot of "peaky-ness" on your car? I am interested in seeing how large of a turbo (x2) you need to get to 1000whp on an S65, as it would be very interesting to see the dyno graph of that compared to a 1000whp SC car.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by leveraged sellout Click here to enlarge
    Do you find a lot of "peaky-ness" on your car? I am interested in seeing how large of a turbo (x2) you need to get to 1000whp on an S65, as it would be very interesting to see the dyno graph of that compared to a 1000whp SC car.
    I'll do some supercharged versus turbo comparisons so we'll know. The turbo car should have much more mid-range.

    I definitely find the SC peaky.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I'll do some supercharged versus turbo comparisons so we'll know. The turbo car should have much more mid-range.

    I definitely find the SC peaky.
    Yeah when you get your DCT done I'd love to see some vids, maybe I just have preconceived notions from all the nothing-nothing-nothing-fullpower-rev limiter turbo cars I've seen or been around/in. It does make sense that two smaller turbos would give more midrange than a centrifugal though. Definitely want to see what yours can do when its unleashed.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by leveraged sellout Click here to enlarge
    Yeah when you get your DCT done I'd love to see some vids, maybe I just have preconceived notions from all the nothing-nothing-nothing-fullpower-rev limiter turbo cars I've seen or been around/in. It does make sense that two smaller turbos would give more midrange than a centrifugal though. Definitely want to see what yours can do when its unleashed.
    They were probably small motors with big turbos.

    At first my car will have a big advantage on the turbo shop car as it is stock motor. Still, we can overlay graphs and such.

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