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  1. #26
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    One of the m5s was the pro skater Josh kalis. That car was badass. PhillyM5 he goes buy on forums. Really cool guy. I've skated with him.

  2. #27
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    The miscommunication is just odd though, wouldn't someone at some point have said what they were expecting and what the goal was?

    Some of those DA cars were incredible so just sounds like Basil did not get what he was expecting.

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    For spending in excess of $100,000 and with the promise of over 650 rwhp, Basil's car was very much a failure from D/A. He had to re-build the engine and I have seen the pitted pistions after 4K miles.

  4. #29
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BigM62 Click here to enlarge
    For spending in excess of $100,000 and with the promise of over 650 rwhp, Basil's car was very much a failure from D/A. He had to re-build the engine and I have seen the pitted pistions after 4K miles.
    Why the hell would it be $100k?

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  5. #30
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    Actually, it was 69k for 600rwhp. I spent more on other things. I don't know what was spent on what because i never got any paperwork/invoicing listing what was done though I asked twice.

    In the middle of the build I reiterated my understanding that we would be going to 600rwhp, to which he agreed. I posted that email on the M5Board some time ago.

    I think Edge Motorworks dynoed the car at 434rwhp - after fixing three vacuum/boost leaks and an oil leak (the car was delivered with a large pool of oil sitting on the aero cover under the engine. $70k for an additional 100hp? I would have gone to Dinan then, as I was considering both.

    After delivery I realized that the d/a twins had a similar problem with reversion (fooling the MAFS). In short, the car would continually act like it was running out of gas at rpms around/above ~4k. The engine bucking while in a corner or on the freeway (3:62 diff) was crazy and frustrating. I realized that d/a wouldn't be able to fix that problem as that was their best technology that they could offer. Additionally, I realized that I couldn't trust d/a and didn't want to be paying even more money to hopefully correct at least some of the issues that should have been seen to before it was delivered to me.

    The two cars/owners are now looking at my project at RMS to clean up this issue - that Josh and the other owner tried to overcome with marginal success. Josh bought his car from the original owner soon after it was built. Shortly after, he paid d/a to replace the pistons and some other stuff for (sitting down?) 40k as I recall in his post. The reason given was user error - mis-shift or something.

    Here are some pictures of the pistons that Rebello replaced. The engine had about 4k on it. They also said the the the valve seats (some of them?) were not completely round so they re-worked them as well. Regarding the pistons, They said that they were so tight in the cyliders that the rings were almost impossible to remove from some of the pistons. They said that the installed sleeves were not finished properly (honed out) before installing the pistons. Also, it seems that there was some foreign material that found its way into the d/a build. It was speculated that some of the welding slag in the modified plenum, that they said was not all removed, found its way into the engine. We checked the supercharger bearings to ensure that that was not the origin of the FOD (foreign object damage).

    Click here to enlarge

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  6. #31
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bluesea Click here to enlarge
    Actually, it was 69k for 600rwhp. I spent more on other things. I don't know what was spent on what because i never got any paperwork/invoicing listing what was done though I asked twice.
    First of all, welcome.

    Secondly, 69k for 600 whp? 69 freaking k??? Holy $#@!. I don't know how they managed to convince you to do that and then had the audacity to not come through with the promised power?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bluesea Click here to enlarge
    After delivery I realized that the d/a twins had a similar problem with reversion (fooling the MAFS). In short, the car would continually act like it was running out of gas at rpms around/above ~4k. The engine bucking while in a corner or on the freeway (3:62 diff) was crazy and frustrating. I realized that d/a wouldn't be able to fix that problem as that was their best technology that they could offer. Additionally, I realized that I couldn't trust d/a and didn't want to be paying even more money to hopefully correct at least some of the issues that should have been seen to before it was delivered to me.
    Why did the other DA cars have so much more power than you? So you are saying the other ones did not run properly either and that is why they were sold? So what is the status of them now?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bluesea Click here to enlarge
    Here are some pictures of the pistons that Rebello replaced. The engine had about 4k on it. They also said the the the valve seats (some of them?) were not completely round so they re-worked them as well. Regarding the pistons, They said that they were so tight in the cyliders that the rings were almost impossible to remove from some of the pistons. They said that the installed sleeves were not finished properly (honed out) before installing the pistons. Also, it seems that there was some foreign material that found its way into the d/a build. It was speculated that some of the welding slag in the modified plenum, that they said was not all removed, found its way into the engine. We checked the supercharger bearings to ensure that that was not the origin of the FOD (foreign object damage).
    That looks horrible, I don't know how DA was able to convince everyone they were some top shop. I just don't understand this, the other cars put down impressive power and the build details looked impressive as well. You have really taught me a lot here.

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  7. #32
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    All the builds look impressive at first. But it is only after the D/A builds are complete , that many things had to change and/or be rebuild . And let's not forget there are more D/A builds and software tuning fiascos from other owners who do not post about. Dinan does excellent work, but it is the "Dinan way" or the highway. Dinan does not do custom builds, only kits.

  8. #33
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BigM62 Click here to enlarge
    All the builds look impressive at first. But it is only after the D/A builds are complete , that many things had to change and/or be rebuild . And let's not forget there are more D/A builds and software tuning fiascos from other owners who do not post about. Dinan does excellent work, but it is the "Dinan way" or the highway. Dinan does not do custom builds, only kits.
    Dinan stuff is mild, solid, overpriced, blah blah blah, they have their market and do well in it.

    The D/A stuff is catching me off guard. What is the problem exactly? Are they not capable of tuning? The hardware looks good, but then again, I just got a look at those pistons.

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  9. #34
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    A lot can happen in 4k miles, just saying is all.

  10. #35
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    With a wrong install and tuning, ALOT can go wrong Click here to enlarge

  11. #36
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BigM62 Click here to enlarge
    Every build needs new tuning and other issues. They was a guy on BFC (Carmen) who boasted about his D/A M3. It blew up after several months and he had another shop rebuild the engine. He is now trying to sell/part out the M3. Everyone forgets this guy works out of his garage in his home. Don't get me wrong. He is very pleasant and freindly to talk to. But after 15 minutes of sweet nothings, you ask yourself, "WTF did he say?" He moved to LA and hung out at RMS to get all thier designs and ideas, and then went home and proclaimed himself the E39 M5 tuner king. He still has a good following on M5Board. Hid work looks beatiful and he farms out ALL his work. He brings up a tech from San Diego to do the engine work. He brings in someone to tune. No problem with that, but he is a conductor not a fabricator or tuner. Oh, and he is never, ever wrong. Anybody see "The Wizard of Oz"? Yep, the guy behind the green curtain. No one tuner/shop is perfect though.
    Ahh, the good old days of M3forum. When legit companies like HPF got run out of town by Cleveland and his clown crew and snake oil salesmen like DA were worshipped despite never having produced any widely recognized cars. HPF was already well established for their Supra builds when they started their E46 M3 endeavor.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Dinan stuff is mild, solid, overpriced, blah blah blah, they have their market and do well in it.

    I think this is why Dinan is still in business after all these years: They're super conservative and high price tag since they develop in-house (and presumably outsource manufacturing). If you stop and think about it, how many tuner shops have been around for 10+ years? It's a short list. Really short. I can think of Dinan, Lingenfelter, SLP (sort of), LG Motorsports, SP Engineering, Saleen (sort of), Protomotive, RUF, Renntech, Active Autowerke, AC Schnitzer (sort of), Kleeman (sort of), and not many others. I say "sort of" for so many because they are more about installing their own stuff for customers than they are doing full on "builds" of monster customer cars. It seems to me like most tuning shops come with an expiration date. Sooner or later they will F up a build and drop the ball on making it right, either due to internal financial issues, ego, or whatever. Look at recently happened to VF. Back in early 2008 I was dead sure that if I ever got a supercharger for the new M3, it would be VF. It was a foregone conclusion. Now? I would not go that route at all, because of the stuff that came out about them. That eventually seems to happen to every shop. Of the shops I listed above I would only consider 4 or 5 of them to be truly "elite" shops that have endured the test of time and reputation for having built some massively powerful, yet reliable, street cars.
    Last edited by fstop7; 09-09-2010 at 09:27 PM.

  12. #37
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BigM62 Click here to enlarge
    Every build needs new tuning and other issues. They was a guy on BFC (Carmen) who boasted about his D/A M3. It blew up after several months and he had another shop rebuild the engine. He is now trying to sell/part out the M3. Everyone forgets this guy works out of his garage in his home. Don't get me wrong. He is very pleasant and freindly to talk to. But after 15 minutes of sweet nothings, you ask yourself, "WTF did he say?" He moved to LA and hung out at RMS to get all thier designs and ideas, and then went home and proclaimed himself the E39 M5 tuner king. He still has a good following on M5Board. Hid work looks beatiful and he farms out ALL his work. He brings up a tech from San Diego to do the engine work. He brings in someone to tune. No problem with that, but he is a conductor not a fabricator or tuner. Oh, and he is never, ever wrong. Anybody see "The Wizard of Oz"? Yep, the guy behind the green curtain. No one tuner/shop is perfect though.
    I just wanted to say you were 100% correct, namely in your assessment which is spot on.

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  13. #38
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I just wanted to say you were 100% correct, namely in your assessment which is spot on.
    I could not agree more that you think his post is 100% correct. Wow, he did all the typing I wanted to do! Carmen (aka WizeguyM3 spelled wrong most likely) had his car there for such a long freakn time, i believe as soon as he got it, took it off the trailer, it blew up! And that was with incredible hardware invested into it....

  14. #39
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TaZaM3 Click here to enlarge
    I could not agree more that you think his post is 100% correct. Wow, he did all the typing I wanted to do! Carmen (aka WizeguyM3 spelled wrong most likely) had his car there for such a long freakn time, i believe as soon as he got it, took it off the trailer, it blew up! And that was with incredible hardware invested into it....
    Yep Wizeguy's car blew up right in front of my eyes racing a VF stg 3 car on the highway. The irony is the VF kit didn't blow up (yet).

    LOL

  15. #40
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BrenM3 Click here to enlarge
    Yep Wizeguy's car blew up right in front of my eyes racing a VF stg 3 car on the highway. The irony is the VF kit didn't blow up (yet).

    LOL
    Thats so aweful! I remember his car's hardware was amazing!
    Click here to enlarge



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  16. #41
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BrenM3 Click here to enlarge
    Yep Wizeguy's car blew up right in front of my eyes racing a VF stg 3 car on the highway. The irony is the VF kit didn't blow up (yet).

    LOL
    LOL

  17. #42
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BrenM3 Click here to enlarge
    Yep Wizeguy's car blew up right in front of my eyes racing a VF stg 3 car on the highway. The irony is the VF kit didn't blow up (yet).

    LOL
    How ridiculous is that? What did he end up doing with the car? Did DA do anything for him?

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  18. #43
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    1 out of 2 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    BigM62, we meet again. So much hate. Click here to enlarge

    I'm the owner of Abdulla's ride, and I've had the car for three years. It has been an amazing car, and I will never sell it. Abdulla sold the car because the extreme heat in Bahrain was a bit much for a high-boost M5 putting putting down over 700whp on pump gas. Plus Abdulla was itching for the e60. Abdulla shipped the car to BMW San Diego to put it on the market, and the sale was handled by Bill and the car's engine builder, who works as a master tech at BMW SD. I bought the car after checking it out very carefully (compression/leakdown, sitting in traffic on a hot day, hours of interrogation, etc.)

    What can I say, the car has changed my car life and has completely scratched my itch for speed and power. Where else is there for a 5 series bimmer lover to go? She's got the works. She drives like a dream, the clutch is the best I've ever had (UUC), the braking is flawless, and the acceleration for a two-ton lux barge still blows me away. She's not state-of-the-art in terms of engine management and fuel (piggy-back with 16 injectors), but the current set up totally gets the job done and I have no immediate plans to change it. If/when RMS ever gets it together with the '3rd Gen' manifold, I will probably look into upgrading. I really like the new design, as it should represent a step up in both appearance and function. I await Basil's results with much anticipation.

    Apart from leisurely plans for upgrades, the car is a dream and doesn't need a thing. I have experienced the limitations of the RMS 'Gen 1' in-plenum aftercooler design, which means it probably isn't capable of pressurization much above 13-14 lbs. So if I want to upgrade to the V7 supercharger, it would go hand-in-hand with the new manifold.

    I should also mention that Bill has always been a cell phone call away with any questions or issues that have come up. Although he built the car, what, 6-7 years ago, and D/A got out of the M5 biz, he still recalls many fine details about the build and has been a valuable resource over the years.

    So, the naysayers will suggest I'm rushing to Bill's defense and waxing about how much I love the car, while in fact I've had nothing but problems. But nothing could be farther from the truth. I'm crazy about the car for a reason: it is a magnificent piece of work that totally delivers. There is nothing else quite like it on the planet, and Bill should be proud to have created it.

    Cheers

    Dave
    'El Diablo'
    00 Black/black DA s/c M5
    Carrillo rods, Arias pistons,
    Schrick cams, Vortech T-trim,
    Supersprint headers/exhaust,
    UUC, Koala driveshaft/differential,
    Dinan Stage 3 suspension, Brembo
    ~Built by Shadowman & Black M5~

  19. #44
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by wilsodh Click here to enlarge
    Where else is there for a 5 series bimmer lover to go?
    E-Shift performance? Greater gains, more reliable package, less money?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by wilsodh Click here to enlarge
    I should also mention that Bill has always been a cell phone call away with any questions or issues that have come up. Although he built the car, what, 6-7 years ago, and D/A got out of the M5 biz, he still recalls many fine details about the build and has been a valuable resource over the years.
    I hear he has a thing for "old gals." Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by wilsodh Click here to enlarge
    So, the naysayers will suggest I'm rushing to Bill's defense and waxing about how much I love the car, while in fact I've had nothing but problems. But nothing could be farther from the truth. I'm crazy about the car for a reason: it is a magnificent piece of work that totally delivers. There is nothing else quite like it on the planet, and Bill should be proud to have created it.
    I don't see it as you rushing to his defense at all, there is no defense for what has transpired. However, I do like that you are sharing your personal experience and that is important.

    The thing is, you purchased this car after Abdullah footed the bill for the development. Bill had to go all out on this car as all of M5board was watching and it would make or break him. If he could clean up RMS' mistake, he would be taken as a savior. I wouldn't give Bill the credit for that vehicle, everything was outsourced. What did he really do?

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  20. #45
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    Opps - double post.
    Last edited by wilsodh; 10-19-2010 at 10:25 PM.
    'El Diablo'
    00 Black/black DA s/c M5
    Carrillo rods, Arias pistons,
    Schrick cams, Vortech T-trim,
    Supersprint headers/exhaust,
    UUC, Koala driveshaft/differential,
    Dinan Stage 3 suspension, Brembo
    ~Built by Shadowman & Black M5~

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    The thing is, you purchased this car after Abdullah footed the bill for the development. Bill had to go all out on this car as all of M5board was watching and it would make or break him. If he could clean up RMS' mistake, he would be taken as a savior. I wouldn't give Bill the credit for that vehicle, everything was outsourced. What did he really do?
    Indeed I did. I don't have Abdulla's deep pockets and the little woman would probably leave me if I were to fund a high end, one-off project. Click here to enlarge Actually, Bill went all out on two cars: mine and Kalis' former ride (the 'twins'). There was some economy of scale I believe, but the price tags were still high. These were highly custom one-off projects with top drawer everything, with many hours spent tending to show-quality fit, finish, and integration of custom components to appear OEM.

    Bill's contribution was to pioneer the extreme, high-boost/low compression S62. This hadn't been done before to my knowledge, including RMS. The flexible aluminum block with its its razor-thin bore spacing is hardly an ideal platform for this. Bill had Vac machine interlocking sleeves, and Bill put it all together working with Arias for the pistons/rings, putting the world's first 800hp e39 M5s on the street. Reputable bimmer builders (eg., Fall Line Motorsports) said no way, couldn't be done. The twins proved it could be and that the engines were reliable for the street. Today sleeving the S62 and cranking up the boost is no big deal.

    Bill's extensive relationships with external suppliers has been one of D/A's strengths in my view. Of course a lot was outsourced; it is absolutely appropriate to draw upon the expertise and core competence of specialty firms rather than trying to 'do everything in-house'. I would much rather have experts designing components and subsystems, such as the sound system in my car, or the piston design, or performing specialized machining. That is how product development and manufacturing generally works in many fields.

    Dave
    'El Diablo'
    00 Black/black DA s/c M5
    Carrillo rods, Arias pistons,
    Schrick cams, Vortech T-trim,
    Supersprint headers/exhaust,
    UUC, Koala driveshaft/differential,
    Dinan Stage 3 suspension, Brembo
    ~Built by Shadowman & Black M5~

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    So much whp does your M5 make?

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    The 'twins' have identical engine builds except I have a larger crank pulley for an extra 1-2 psi. The blue twin put 692 to the tire on pump gas (documented on the M5board). Have not dyno'd my car.

    -D
    'El Diablo'
    00 Black/black DA s/c M5
    Carrillo rods, Arias pistons,
    Schrick cams, Vortech T-trim,
    Supersprint headers/exhaust,
    UUC, Koala driveshaft/differential,
    Dinan Stage 3 suspension, Brembo
    ~Built by Shadowman & Black M5~

  24. #49
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by wilsodh Click here to enlarge
    Indeed I did. I don't have Abdulla's deep pockets and the little woman would probably leave me if I were to fund a high end, one-off project. Actually, Bill went all out on two cars: mine and Kalis' former ride (the 'twins'). There was some economy of scale I believe, but the price tags were still high. These were highly custom one-off projects with top drawer everything, with many hours spent tending to show-quality fit, finish, and integration of custom components to appear OEM.
    I agree, exactly correct and these two vehicles remain the most visible DA "built" cars today. You bought the right car with top shelf parts.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by wilsodh Click here to enlarge
    Bill's contribution was to pioneer the extreme, high-boost/low compression S62. This hadn't been done before to my knowledge, including RMS.
    Does Dinan count? A low compression and higher boost BMW is not really anything to pioneer so to speak. He ordered up custom pistons at a defined compression level, you could technically just skip him entirely and call up JE or Mahle yourself and do the same thing.

    I definitely agree, the S62 block isn't an ideal candidate for boost. However, sleeving a BMW V8 is also nothing new.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by wilsodh Click here to enlarge
    Bill's extensive relationships with external suppliers has been one of D/A's strengths in my view. Of course a lot was outsourced; it is absolutely appropriate to draw upon the expertise and core competence of specialty firms rather than trying to 'do everything in-house'. I would much rather have experts designing components and subsystems, such as the sound system in my car, or the piston design, or performing specialized machining. That is how product development and manufacturing generally works in many fields.
    I agree, having the right people do the work is important and they deserve the credit for their work. Bill working as a middleman, which is really what you are stating regarding relationships, is all he did. The technical expertise, design, and labor all belongs to other parties. I think the more we dwell on this the more apparent it becomes Bill is getting far more credit than he deserves for what truly is an amazing vehicle that you have.

    I was wondering, would you mind putting up details on your motor setup in this forum? I haven't heard much about it in a while and would like to take a look if you have any pics as your car was one of the builds that had me thinking at one point that DA was not only worth the money but the premier place to take an S62 based vehicle.

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by wilsodh Click here to enlarge
    The 'twins' have identical engine builds except I have a larger crank pulley for an extra 1-2 psi. The blue twin put 692 to the tire on pump gas (documented on the M5board). Have not dyno'd my car.
    Any reason you have not dyno'd it?

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
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