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Thread: Morning project

  1. #76
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
    I didn't realize anyone was testing for E100. Maybe you thought pure/100% E85 that you get off the pump that varies from about E68 at worst at the pumps and up.

    Are you saying you've seen considerable gains on a safe tune with timing on pure pump E85 vs an E50 mix? We have a very large user base of E85 blend cars out there at this point and I can tell you with certainty that going higher than E50 simply does not provide any significant measurable gains on stock frame turbos. I don't know what having pure pump E85 will mean to N54s with larger turbos or turbo out there but we'll see when we get there.

    What's the issue with finding/testing a regulator that doesn't get overrun by dual pumps in the tank which provide plenty of volume and keep LP on target? This is what I'd really like to see tested personally. Wish I had E85 up here Click here to enlarge We'll deal with it when we get an issue if an issue is really there at the power levels we end up making with larger turbos/turbo.
    My bad E85 compared with E50Ö yes definitely advantages in 110+degF, dry air. The dry air is a huge factor. I havenít personally gone as high as E85 but dabbled up to around E60/91oct. Iím sure Terry could add some insight here. Many environments may not have a need for more effective octane than E50.

    My typical setup is E40 and E40+meth (many many logs and finetuning adjustments)... very different in aggression. anyway, back to pumping.

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    I have maxxed timing with e50 before in hotter temps.. I don't think 100% is worth anything but ease of fuel up I suppose. I spent my time hunting for a full service pump that has e85 and 93 in the area so I don't have to move and I am up to 2 different stations that do so. Soooooooooo e50 is fine for me.
    09 6AT 335i Coupe M-Sport - SOLD
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  3. #78
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    I think around E65 is where you start to really max things out on the factory turbos when you're talking about 1/2 mile runs. Have not tested 110 degree+ ambient weather though. That may push that up a bit further.
    Burger Motorsports
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    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

  4. #79
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    Throughout our tuning across different climates/conditions I've noticed that past around 104-107F is where at higher RPMs we start to get some timing corrections and can't have slightly sloping up timing curves as boost tapers. I can see where you're coming from in terms of IATs/ambients without meth in that respect but I'm not sure if going with E65-E85 would help that situation. I've tried going to E70 with a few cars per their request and it didn't seem to help that situation once IATs got up there and there was no more room for power through additional timing so we went back to the timing tables and adjusted accordingly.

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    How hard you're pushing boost also has a big impact. If you're tapering it down (keeping duty cycle under 70%) then maybe E50 is enough. But if you are trying to push it up past 80% that extra octane comes in handy. It's just another variable to juggle. After the last runway event I made some tweaks to our IAT timing table, increasing timing pull as IAT pushes past 150 degrees. At some point even with all the octane in the world you just need to pull back advance a bit.
    Burger Motorsports
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    To be honest given some repeated hard testing on my own car I simply refuse to push wastegate duty cycles past 70%. On RBs in vast majority of cases I'll end up with just 45-55% depending on any particular setup/car with a great power/boost profile throughout (20psi down to 16.5ish at redline) and something that has a chance of surviving with beating. Not everyone's car is in danger with higher WGDCs. Its those that see tons of beating/heat day in/out that'll simply go due to heat/backpressure when you end up closing those gates too far too long, and then, they'll be after oil catch cans/PCV troubleshooting in hopes its not their seals heh been there. These are obviously just my honest recommendations based on tons of testing/beating. People often times see things posted online (record dynos etc) and ask for more. There will always be those that want reliable and those that want to push. On my car, I'm the latter but at the same time I also break my own things a lot more often. Some call it pushing some call it testing limits Click here to enlarge Anyways, back to PUMMMMPing

  7. #82
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    hahahah that's one way to make a point about fueling issues I suppose.
    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale: http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MDORPHN Click here to enlarge
    Terry, Dzenno, Josh et al -

    Just wanted to give you all props for a really excellent discussion and especially to Terry for his testing. Please keep it up!

    Neil
    Good stuff guys.
    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale: http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

  9. #84
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
    To be honest given some repeated hard testing on my own car I simply refuse to push wastegate duty cycles past 70%. On RBs in vast majority of cases I'll end up with just 45-55% depending on any particular setup/car with a great power/boost profile throughout (20psi down to 16.5ish at redline) and something that has a chance of surviving with beating. Not everyone's car is in danger with higher WGDCs. Its those that see tons of beating/heat day in/out that'll simply go due to heat/backpressure when you end up closing those gates too far too long, and then, they'll be after oil catch cans/PCV troubleshooting in hopes its not their seals heh been there. These are obviously just my honest recommendations based on tons of testing/beating. People often times see things posted online (record dynos etc) and ask for more. There will always be those that want reliable and those that want to push. On my car, I'm the latter but at the same time I also break my own things a lot more often. Some call it pushing some call it testing limits Click here to enlarge Anyways, back to PUMMMMPing
    RBs are not as durable as stock turbos so I'd definitely not suggest pushing those past 20psi @ 5000rpm, 18psi@6500rpm. But the stock turbos are troopers. And cheap enough. If you want to run ~125mph traps stock turbos you need all the help you can get. Click here to enlarge
    Burger Motorsports
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    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

  10. #85
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    RBs are not as durable as stock turbos so I'd definitely not suggest pushing those past 20psi @ 5000rpm, 18psi@6500rpm. But the stock turbos are troopers. And cheap enough. If you want to run ~125mph traps stock turbos you need all the help you can get. Click here to enlarge
    rb's aren't as durable as stock turbos? do you mean the other way around?
    boop

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    rb's aren't as durable as stock turbos? do you mean the other way around?
    Why would something machined out with huge wheels shoved in it be more durable than tiny lighter factory wheels with no material removed? It's just common sense. But stock turbos make 100whp less at higher RPM so what you get with RBs is good enough durability with a lot more top end performance.
    Burger Motorsports
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    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

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    Yeah, you can't really relate WGDC between different turbos except to say higher DC = more BP. Even in different conditions, the vac pump has various output so DC per vac varies. Then WG actuators add another variable.

    I've been running 70%+ in the top for more than 2yrs.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Why would something machined out with huge wheels shoved in it be more durable than tiny lighter factory wheels with no material removed? It's just common sense. But stock turbos make 100whp less at higher RPM so what you get with RBs is good enough durability with a lot more top end performance.
    i thought the stockers were fragile with their weak wastegates more than anything?

    do the wheels on the RB's have massive wear?

    how about the stock bearings vs upgraded vargas ones?

    identical power level to identical power level (say 450whp - 450whp) wouldn't the RB's be being pushed less, therefore last longer (be more durable) in theory?

    pushing either option to their limits wouldn't be good for reliability, but stock wastegates would $#@! themselves before anything on the RB's, no?
    boop

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    Ask a turbo guy for addl info but I've already stated my "tuner" opinion on it. Click here to enlarge
    Burger Motorsports
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    Just to update this thread we decided the gains were no better than putting the same inline pump in tank, and there is addl risk and complexity with triggering this pump, that makes it overall not worth it. "Option2" Walbro 255 inline continues to be the best all around pump upgrade option for those south of 600whp.
    Burger Motorsports
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    Thanks for the update. The last mod in the pipe for me to handle the Stage 3s is the LPFP side; was waiting on your results. Looks like I'll be running the Vargas parallel setup.

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    For those shooting for north of 600rw I think that's a good way to go.
    Burger Motorsports
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    Terry, in layman's term. What does this do? and When would I need it? Will it affect me on stock turbos?

    Thanks!

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Marz Click here to enlarge
    Terry, in layman's term. What does this do? and When would I need it? Will it affect me on stock turbos?

    Thanks!
    @Terry@BMS
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Marz Click here to enlarge
    Terry, in layman's term. What does this do? and When would I need it? Will it affect me on stock turbos?


    Thanks!
    Check the other threads here and on n54tech.

    In short, when running e85 (or really anything much over e50), your low pressure fuel pump can't keep up. Swapping these pumps allows your low pressure pump to keep up all day. At a certain point, the HPFP can't keep up, in the midrange.

    Terry has taken the time to show three (four w/parallel in the mix) pump configurations/location options, with various pumps.

    With e70-85 (depending on your car/luck) you can run just fine with these pumps.
    700 and change

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    Great yea! I've seen a few thread about the inline walbro and how you need to upgrade to a new pump for e85. I just get lost in the complex talk about it with all honesty :-P. graduated college in business not mechanical engineering. haha
    Guess I will have to do some logs and see how my car can holds up running E85? I would like to get full potential out of running a E85 mix. Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Marz Click here to enlarge
    Terry, in layman's term. What does this do? and When would I need it? Will it affect me on stock turbos?

    Thanks!
    Fuel pump upgrades are for guys running big E85 mixtures and/or larger turbos maxing out their factory low fuel pressure system.
    Burger Motorsports
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Fuel pump upgrades are for guys running big E85 mixtures and/or larger turbos maxing out their factory low fuel pressure system.
    Thanks for the quick response Terry!

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sered Click here to enlarge
    Thanks for the update. The last mod in the pipe for me to handle the Stage 3s is the LPFP side; was waiting on your results. Looks like I'll be running the Vargas parallel setup.
    That is what i am running now.. havent tested e85 yet though.
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Terry: Did you have the time to do the DIY for inline (outside the tank) Walbro 255 yet?

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