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  1. #26
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Eric335 Click here to enlarge
    Well this sound somewhat promising, but im assuming it wont work since it is so simple and obvious that im sure someone would have tried it/researched it more...
    You would think s wouldn't you. But with the HPFP and a few other things such as a real twin kit after 5 years of people looking at them, it was some pretty simple stuff. I am about to buy a 335 AT. I was going to do a 4L85E. I will look into this route before I go there.

  2. #27
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    You would think s wouldn't you. But with the HPFP and a few other things such as a real twin kit after 5 years of people looking at them, it was some pretty simple stuff. I am about to buy a 335 AT. I was going to do a 4L85E. I will look into this route before I go there.
    Very very true, Tony
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  3. #28
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    Tony has $#@!ing balls. He just wants to $#@! up all our wallets by smashing all the obstacles we think are big. Must be nice, Tony...
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  4. #29
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ajm8127 Click here to enlarge
    Attachment 30584
    Attachment 30583


    I wanted to add these here. What I notice is how similar the dimensions are, and the gear ratios are the same. I kind of think you could just switch the mechatronic from the 6HP21 directly to the 6HP28, provided you were able to mount the 6HP28 to the rear of the engine. Documentation from Sonnax indicates the mechtronics are the same across all second generation ZF six speed automatics. This makes sense as the primary difference is the number of clutches (and possibly their diameter, although that is unclear to me). The actual configuration of the gears is the same (Lepelletier) so the control of those gears would be the same as well.

    The ratios of the gears being the same is significant because the 6HP21 programming expects a certain change in the delta between the input and output shaft speed when a gear is changed. The fact the 6HP28 uses the same ratios as the 6HP21 means the 6HP21 would expect the same speed change as the 6HP28 transmission would give it, potentially meaning the mechtronics could be directly swapped from a 21 to a 28. If there are physical differences in the aluminum halfs of the valve body, there is still the potential for the TCU itself to be directly swapped over from 21 mechatronics assembly to a 28 assembly.
    Very good chart.

    I will say that I've read the 6HP26TU and 6HP26z and 6HP28 are all the same thing, just named differently at different times. Not sure if its true but I came across that somewhere.

    Also, from looking at your datasheets, the length of the transmission from end to end is exactly the same, as well as from the edge of the bellhousing to the mounting point on the output. The one thing that definitely looks different, is the bellhousing mounting points. It looks wider, and the transmission height from top of bellhousing and bottom of mechatronic is slightly taller. The bell housing appears to be wider, not so much for the torque converter, but moreso for the back of the diesel engine itself. So maybe a new bellhousing could be made, or some crazy adapter plate. Not really looking good so far in terms of mounting up.
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  5. #30
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    Real oem gives this part numbers for 335i mechatronic:
    24347571245
    24347647856

    And this is for 335d:
    24347571247
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  6. #31
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by klipseracer Click here to enlarge
    Real oem gives this part numbers for 335i mechatronic:
    24347571245
    24347647856

    And this is for 335d:
    24347571247
    Those part numbers include programming, so it's not indicative of a physically different part, although we know the two mechatronics for the 6HP21 are different, but we suspect the difference to be in the electronics, not the hard parts. So even if the electronics are different between the 6HP21 and 6HP28 mechatronics, the hard parts have a good chance of being the same, so a TCU swap may be possible. Someone has to buy a 6HP28, open it up and compare it to the 6HP21.

    6HP26TU = 6HP28; TU basically means technical upgrade i believe.

    I am not sure about the 6HP26z. I have read the 'z' suffix denotes a part made for BMW. Not sure about the veracity of that information.

    The bell housings are definitely different, but a skilled fabricator should be able to make something work.

  7. #32
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ajm8127 Click here to enlarge
    Those part numbers include programming, so it's not indicative of a physically different part, although we know the two mechatronics for the 6HP21 are different, but we suspect the difference to be in the electronics, not the hard parts. So even if the electronics are different between the 6HP21 and 6HP28 mechatronics, the hard parts have a good chance of being the same, so a TCU swap may be possible. Someone has to buy a 6HP28, open it up and compare it to the 6HP21.

    6HP26TU = 6HP28; TU basically means technical upgrade i believe.

    I am not sure about the 6HP26z. I have read the 'z' suffix denotes a part made for BMW. Not sure about the veracity of that information.

    The bell housings are definitely different, but a skilled fabricator should be able to make something work.
    I like the way you think Click here to enlarge

    GA6HP19Z is the part referenced in realoem for the 335i, so take that for what its worth. And you're right I think the TU is Technical Update or something like that.

    Someone needs to buy these transmissions from a junk yard, and see what we got to do with the bell housing and if the mechatronics is compatible. If so, we may have a winner.
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  8. #33
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    I would caution you against a full transmission swap because the gearing will be all wrong. Diesels have a much narrower power band and therefore the gearing is designed to maximize this as much as possible. I agree however, that the torque converter swap might be a viable option.
    From all the things I've lost,
    I miss my mind the most!
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  9. #34
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by vasillalov Click here to enlarge
    I would caution you against a full transmission swap because the gearing will be all wrong. Diesels have a much narrower power band and therefore the gearing is designed to maximize this as much as possible. I agree however, that the torque converter swap might be a viable option.
    Actually, if I read it correctly, the gearing is identical. I think just the final drives are different or something, and I also saw they offer the same final drive as our 6hp21. Don't quote me but the datasheet seemed to make me think that.
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  10. #35
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    Bump...
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  11. #36
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DefactoM6 Click here to enlarge
    @LostMarine and I discussed this years ago. A number of experts said the coding would make it extremely, extremely difficult.
    correct. but we have come a long way since then

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    correct. but we have come a long way since then
    Things sure have come a long way since then Click here to enlarge. The big question (as it applies to this argument) is if they've come far enough. Unfortunately, I have my doubts. That said, time will eventually get us there.
    Click here to enlarge

  13. #38
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    It always comes down to people plopping down the money. Racing teams are the ones doing this, they are unlikely to share anything with us.

    How possible is it to cut off the bellhousing and fab up a different one, kind of like how they do with the powerglide.
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  14. #39
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by klipseracer Click here to enlarge
    It always comes down to people plopping down the money. Racing teams are the ones doing this, they are unlikely to share anything with us.

    How possible is it to cut off the bellhousing and fab up a different one, kind of like how they do with the powerglide.
    It's very possible I would think. Takes two transmissions and a nice welder mainly, at least on every car I've seen it done on (supra's, mustangs, 240SX, etc). Not always the prettiest way of handling things but effective. Mechanically mounting any of these transmissions is unlikely to be a major issue for a fabrication shop experienced in automotive. Coding/programming I feel will be the determining factor in if a 6HP28 is a better idea than something more conventional like a TH400 spawn (4L80/85) like Tony was saying with a stand alone controller.

    It really all comes down to cost and how badly you want it. Not necessarily in money, a used 4L80e and everything you need to physically connect it and control the trans side can be had for pretty cheap, but cost of man hours, headaches, figuring out coding, etc add up. I have no idea how much 6HP28's sell for.

  15. #40
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    What is the ZF transmission made of and is it weldable to a peace of mind standard? I've seen the bell housing just cut off, then a new fabbed up one bolted on.
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  16. #41
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    Has anyone seen if the internals of the 26 would swap over to 21? Since Exedy makes a kit that holds 1000hp for the 26.

  17. #42
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    Has anyone seen if the internals of the 26 would swap over to 21? Since Exedy makes a kit that holds 1000hp for the 26.

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    NEVERMIND TO THE ABOVE QUESTION I FOUND IT

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 07Tundra Click here to enlarge
    NEVERMIND TO THE ABOVE QUESTION I FOUND IT
    i think the 26 has more clutches

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 135idct Click here to enlarge
    i think the 26 has more clutches
    And I believe that's what we need and a flash to hold more

  21. #46
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    Check this out?

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    Realistically I think its down to finding a 6hp26 from the n54 x5 as it will bolt up and recoding shouldn't be needed as it is already being used with the n54 but capable of more tq...Has anyone tried flashing the tcu with the x5 file to see if it increases line pressures beyond the alpina flash?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TT-Tom Click here to enlarge
    Realistically I think its down to finding a 6hp26 from the n54 x5 as it will bolt up and recoding shouldn't be needed as it is already being used with the n54 but capable of more tq...Has anyone tried flashing the tcu with the x5 file to see if it increases line pressures beyond the alpina flash?
    They have different HW numbers and Mechatronics. You can damage Mechatronics TCU. DXC TCU also different. AT TCU use DXC module to calculate the angular speed of the wheels. Since the X5 have other main gear, the angular wheel speed is not correlated at engine speed. I tried to to this.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ncat10 Click here to enlarge
    They have different HW numbers and Mechatronics. You can damage Mechatronics TCU. DXC TCU also different. AT TCU use DXC module to calculate the angular speed of the wheels. Since the X5 have other main gear, the angular wheel speed is not correlated at engine speed. I tried to to this.
    Can we swap mechatronics unit from a 335 into the 6hp26?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TT-Tom Click here to enlarge
    Can we swap mechatronics unit from a 335 into the 6hp26?
    I haven't done it but from looking on the internet the 21,26,28, and 32 I believe all share the same one. That does sound like viable idea but then we're back to same line pressure no? the 26 should have more frictions though.
    Last edited by 07Tundra; 02-28-2014 at 03:29 AM.

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