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  1. #126
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bobS Click here to enlarge
    It would sink them if the customers dropped off, which I'm assuming is what started to happen with the e46 m3, they should have started developing new products years ago....I also wonder if the shop/staff was to large for the decline of business, sure it may have been adequate for the "good times" during the peak of the e46 m3 sales but it seems like a lot of space and overhead for servicing one platform. I wonder how much non e46 m3 sales they had.
    These are all interesting questions, who knows.

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  2. #127
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    Apparently he has already talked with shiv and they are setting up plans for picking up the car and getting things taken care of for him.
    E46 323i-rip
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  3. #128
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    May not be such a bad deal for him, we'll see.

    The shop is up for sale but who wants a shop in Portland? No offense.
    Cost of land, labor and no sales tax. Portland actually makes a $#@! ton of sense believe it or not.

    Edit: But only if your business is shipping kits, or big builds shipped to you. For a bolt on standard performance shop there are plenty of better locales.

  4. #129
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    Hpf335i#1 can't even afford to ship his car home let alone to Hayward and have fftec get the car up and running . No way he can afford the proefi which isn't even out yet. Some folks are nice enough to send him some money to help with shipping. I wish him the best as I'd love to see what a twinscroll ST is capable of, its just unfortunate his car is also an AT...so even if he gets it up and running he still has another hurdle to cross.

  5. #130
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bmw335iguy Click here to enlarge
    Hpf335i#1 can't even afford to ship his car home let alone to Hayward and have fftec get the car up and running . No way he can afford the proefi which isn't even out yet. Some folks are nice enough to send him some money to help with shipping. I wish him the best as I'd love to see what a twinscroll ST is capable of, its just unfortunate his car is also an AT...so even if he gets it up and running he still has another hurdle to cross.
    wasnt he military, and deployed? if so, thats his own fault for not managing finances properly and probably shouldnt have ventured into a custom setup.. the shipping of his car is something he had to do anyway. unless he was going to drive it home, but would spend that much anyway.

  6. #131
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    wasnt he military, and deployed? if so, thats his own fault for not managing finances properly and probably shouldnt have ventured into a custom setup.. the shipping of his car is something he had to do anyway. unless he was going to drive it home, but would spend that much anyway.

    Yes and yes. That's why people are chipping in to help pay for shipping. I guess he also had $4k in hpf PayPal account that is now gone...

  7. #132
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bmw335iguy Click here to enlarge
    Yes and yes. That's why people are chipping in to help pay for shipping. I guess he also had $4k in hpf PayPal account that is now gone...
    But that was years ago he deployed right..? something is odd.

    and the $k in hpf paypal? what was the payment for? sounds like we need him here to tell his story

  8. #133
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    I think hes been deployed a few times over the 3+ years hpf had his car. The PayPal money was for extra mods they were supposed to do I think.

  9. #134
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bmw335iguy Click here to enlarge
    I think hes been deployed a few times over the 3+ years hpf had his car. The PayPal money was for extra mods they were supposed to do I think.
    odd, but not unheard of, but i see no reason why he cant pay for the shipping himself. should at least be an E5 taking home a little over $5k month, if not more.
    extra mods? were the mods put in/on?
    like i said, get him over here. good or bad, its an interesting twist and we would help him out if its warranted.. but would like to know details to make sure people aren't using the military thing to take advantage of others..
    Last edited by LostMarine; 05-07-2013 at 06:17 PM.

  10. #135
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    wait that hpf 335 still isnt done? i remember seeing the original thread and that had to be atleast 2 years ago
    m3

  11. #136
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    I so want to say something about this guy's intelligence but I will refrain since he is already deep down on his luck...

  12. #137
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    www.horsepowerfreaks.com is down already.

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  13. #138
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I think this is just one part of it.

    They never got the guy who stole?
    he got 18mths jailtime or something i read?

  14. #139
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    he got 18mths jailtime or something i read?
    Ya read it was 30 something.

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  15. #140
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    From the booking info, it looked like he was booked for a class B Felony. I sincerely hope Oregon has a nasty State Prison system.

  16. #141
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Brey335i Click here to enlarge
    From the booking info, it looked like he was booked for a class B Felony. I sincerely hope Oregon has a nasty State Prison system.
    I hope he stole some lube
    E46 323i-rip
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  17. #142
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    2 out of 2 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by inlineS54B32 Click here to enlarge
    I am extremely curious how this works. Can you explain the scam with the following?

    One customer w/ one invoice w/ one part costing $5,000. What you are saying makes sense, but also doesn't, and I want to understand this scam.

    Thanks
    Dave agrees to sell you a set of Brembo Brakes for $4200. You pay, he emails you the invoice.. your transaction with dave is now over.
    Dave goes back into the system and changes the price of the brakes to $3800. You now have a $400 credit at HPF. Dave doesn't give you this credit, instead he add's on a set of tires for someone and then makes them $400 (i'm using round numbers to keep it simple). So you're not out anything.

    Dave now goes to customer B and says I have tires for sale if you want them, cash .. $300 bucks.. basically 20% or so less than the market value so its a good deal but not suspicious. You give Dave $300 and noone's the wiser.. but HPF just lost $400 in potential revenue.

    The only time this scam stops working is when you don't discount the items enough and or put more product on the invoice that doesn't add up.. now the customer owes $123 and he has no idea why.. gets an invoice from someone in sales and it shows a set of tires he didn't buy.

    With my large invoice and some other large invoices he was doing QUITE a bit of this, and eventually $#@!ed up his math and I owed like $4000 more than I should have.. I caught it.. as did Commanderwiggen, and some others.

    Make sense?

  18. #143
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ZooyorQ Click here to enlarge
    Dave now goes to customer B and says I have tires for sale if you want them, cash .. $300 bucks.. basically 20% or so less than the market value so its a good deal but not suspicious. You give Dave $300 and noone's the wiser.. but HPF just lost $400 in potential revenue.
    But don't you catch this when he changes the price of tires to $400 as in the example?

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  19. #144
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    But don't you catch this when he changes the price of tires to $400 as in the example?
    My business is done, I don't get a updated invoice, I already received my invoice.

    Might be easier to picture this in a retail setting where it is far more common. You walk in buy a hot dog for $1.. leave, dude marks it down that he sold you the hotdog for $.75.. he then puts a bag of chips on the invoice for $.25 and then sells the chips to the next customer for cash and pockets it.

    Sorta make sense?

    You don't see your invoice changing, that's happening on HPF's side. There was a flaw in David's scam though. You could log into HPF's website and look at PAST invoices. That's how I caught it.

  20. #145
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ZooyorQ Click here to enlarge
    My business is done, I don't get a updated invoice, I already received my invoice.
    Sorry let me be more specific HPF doesn't see this in the computer system?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ZooyorQ Click here to enlarge
    You walk in buy a hot dog for $1.. leave, dude marks it down that he sold you the hotdog for $.75.. he then puts a bag of chips on the invoice for $.25 and then sells the chips to the next customer for cash and pockets it.
    Yes this makes far more sense. I guess I just wouldn't give someone the power to alter pricing that way without a supervisor password verification on site.

    Makes sense.

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  21. #146
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Sorry let me be more specific HPF doesn't see this in the computer system?



    Yes this makes far more sense. I guess I just wouldn't give someone the power to alter pricing that way without a supervisor password verification on site.

    Makes sense.
    You shouldn't be able to modify a CLOSED invoice. I agree that was a bit of a liability loop hole. But David was also a trusted employee, been there many years.. sort of Chris's 'Sales Manager' if you will.. he likely had more access/information than the others.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ZooyorQ Click here to enlarge
    Dave agrees to sell you a set of Brembo Brakes for $4200. You pay, he emails you the invoice.. your transaction with dave is now over.
    Dave goes back into the system and changes the price of the brakes to $3800. You now have a $400 credit at HPF. Dave doesn't give you this credit, instead he add's on a set of tires for someone and then makes them $400 (i'm using round numbers to keep it simple). So you're not out anything.

    Dave now goes to customer B and says I have tires for sale if you want them, cash .. $300 bucks.. basically 20% or so less than the market value so its a good deal but not suspicious. You give Dave $300 and noone's the wiser.. but HPF just lost $400 in potential revenue.

    The only time this scam stops working is when you don't discount the items enough and or put more product on the invoice that doesn't add up.. now the customer owes $123 and he has no idea why.. gets an invoice from someone in sales and it shows a set of tires he didn't buy.

    With my large invoice and some other large invoices he was doing QUITE a bit of this, and eventually $#@!ed up his math and I owed like $4000 more than I should have.. I caught it.. as did Commanderwiggen, and some others.

    Make sense?
    Yikes... Yes, makes perfect sense now. That's a good scam, and could see this working well over long periods of time. I am surprised though that more people didn't catch these items on their purchases. Guessing he was smart, and added items only when the customer was buying a ton of crap at once (like a kit/bushings/suspension/etc.) - I could almost see this working perfectly - until someone like you comes along. Click here to enlarge

    Sucks for HPF - it really does. They pioneered this kit IMO, and hopefully the guy with the rights to the ECU logic does good with it. We shall see.

    Thanks for the explanation.

  23. #148
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    My Lord... I changed the settings so I see newest posts first (on page one) - and I missed everything between you and Sticky. Sorry about that.

  24. #149
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    This a tough biz. A B2C operation in the performance game is LUCKY to make an average of 20% profit on sales. I've been in the industry since 01 (mostly B2B) so I can speak with some authority. In the euro car world there are very few businesses grossing over 5m. Do the math - there isn't a ton of $$$ flying around - esp if you invest in equipment, facility, products, inventory, good people etc.

    You have big shops with big overhead and skill (like VAC, Turner, BW etc) and others with little to no overhead (like drop shippers who do stuff on the side) so it's a pretty whacky marketplace. A lot of consumers expect big shop service/confidence/skill and little shop prices. 'Shops' come and go, more in the BMW market than any other I have ever seen - its pretty brutal really.

    Example A: I start doing walnut blast jobs on N54s for 499. Dealers around here charge $750-900. We were the first shop to use the factory tools (you wouldn't believe how some of these jobs were butchered by other shops), we use factory trained BMW techs with top skill, offer the everyday VAC 'warranty', offer real business hours, 3 AutoLogics, 25 employees to assist, 7 figures in equipment etc. Local 'shops' starts dropping prices and the new 'market price' for this job is $350 - pioneered by the part time 'shops'. In the last year those shops closed up. Is $499 an unfair retail price?

    Example B: I recently had a local dude price shop me on a 335i AR DP install. I quoted our typical price ($250) but he wanted it for $150 ($75/hour) I politely said 'can't do it, but I will try to get closer on price -who is offering the job for $150?" I SWEAR TO GOD - he says VS Motorsports offered it via PM. VS is (was) in IL, we and this consumer are in PA.

    This mentality makes it hard for all legit shops in this market to do well or even survive. I'm sure it didn't help HPF.

    I'm all about getting a good deal, but when it comes to my homes, my cars and my bikes I ALWAYS go with the highest skilled shop or vendor who has a reasonable price point. Not cheap, reasonable. I sometimes pay a premium if I want the best possible work. When I have my Toyota tuned, it will go the best tuner on the East Coast and I will gladly pay whatever he wants. Also, I would NEVER buy parts from 4 online vendors and then call around to get the cheapest install on parts that were bought elsewhere. Imagine buying roofing material and asking for a 'best price installed'?

    Sorry for the rant, but now that some real numbers are out there people may realize that no one is getting rich in the BMW B2C game. I'm not complaining or looking for sympathy BTW, just calling it as it is. Vinny Ten released an interesting video (which was a bit whiny/overdone) but he is generally spot on. (I generally disagree with his age comments tho as my master at VAC is in his 20s and he knows more and has done more than just about any tech I have ever met)

    http://www.thatvideomagazine.com/new...nny-ten-racing

  25. #150
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ZooyorQ Click here to enlarge
    You shouldn't be able to modify a CLOSED invoice. I agree that was a bit of a liability loop hole. But David was also a trusted employee, been there many years.. sort of Chris's 'Sales Manager' if you will.. he likely had more access/information than the others.
    You can with QuickBooks and other programs that most small businesses use.

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