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  1. #26
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    lol, tmo sold his car? how odd..
    Definitely odd if true... I know he was at the last shift sector event which wasn't that long ago and his car was having wastegate issues according to shiv. Hmmmmmm

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    This post by shiv@vishnu is hidden due to excessive negative ratings. Click expand to view the post.



  3. #28
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu Click here to enlarge
    Tmo sold his car to his best friend who is turning it into a dedicated race car or sorts. The slow spool issue tmo had at ShiftSector turned out to be clogged stock secondary cats which has been resolved. Tmo decided it was best for him to focus on useless things like getting married and buying a house. Sounds odd if u ask me. Of course I orchestrated this whole thing with my bullying tactics and high level physical intimidation techniques. Now back to your regular programming... Click here to enlarge
    on 12/11/12
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by tmo335tt Click here to enlarge
    You don't have a 335...why are you even in here? Go pound sand

    come back when you have some useful information...I'll share mine soon.
    on 12/12/12
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by tmo335tt Click here to enlarge
    Yes....I bought the gray car and ST for shift sector and then spent the whole day watching you race. I'm selling my original car, i was just waiting to fix this one with ST first.
    but.. but..but I thought it was fixed 6 months ago.. the guy went from "300+" timeslips and drag racing every weekend, to not being able to race due to an issue, then issue fixed, then never racing it and selling it within 6 months.. so i guess your ST customers arent really "out enjoying their cars too much" then huh..

    hey shiver, what ever happened to FBIS and his threads/data/updates promised..? of the 6- kits we know of, 3 were for sale, 1 of which has caught fire. 1 is yours, which is down due to "unexpected changes" (we know it let go and you are rebuilding it stonger-nothing wrong with that) and 1 customer car you use for R&D.. thats a pretty high failure rate

  4. #29
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    Radiant heat is always a big concern when going with bigger turbos in a cramped engine bay, we took every step to try to keep the heat to a minimum and honestly we are super happy with what we came up with. What is doing most of the work is that 1/4 think aluminum heat shield that runs the length of both manifolds and is covered fully on the bottom with reflect a gold to reflect 95% of the heat back down out of the engine bay. We have put quite a few miles on the car, over 5000 with multiple hundreds of high heat pulls, back to back pulls, etc. The charge pipe runs directly above said heat shield and we stuck a regular run of the mill VTT vinyl sticker on the charge pipe. In distance this about 1-1.5 inches away from the tops of the manifolds which are wrapped but the heat shield is between them. With all these miles and all these pulls the sticker has not even bubbled or discolored. I do not know the melting point of a vinyl sticker but I know its not very high when it is right above an exhaust manifold. When we popped the hood at Shift Sector I think it was terry (might have been David, dont remember) who asked me if that was a special high heat sticker I said nope just plain old vinyl. He was impressed it had stayed intact. All this was basically to say, a well designed, thick heat shield fit tightly in the engine bay can do a LOT to keeping the radiant heat where it is supposed to be and our stage 3's have no issues with it. The production kits will have the option of going 2000 degree coating on their parts instead of wrap for an extra fee as Terry stated some people do not like the wrap. Thanks Terry for starting a good thread about some issues going to an aftermarket turbo kit can have.

  5. #30
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    Would like to see how a ST or St.3 TT kit performs on a racetrack. THAT would be the real test. Both for consistency and reliability.If something falls apart after a couple 1/4mile pulls, don't even bother taking it to a real track...
    E92 335i SB / Black Leather / 6AT / Navi Prof / Sunroof / Active Steering
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  6. #31
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Autobahn335i Click here to enlarge
    Would like to see how a ST or St.3 TT kit performs on a racetrack. THAT would be the real test. Both for consistency and reliability.If something falls apart after a couple 1/4mile pulls, don't even bother taking it to a real track...
    TBH at this rate, the only ST cars you'll see performing at a racetrack (or at least evidence of them) will be non-Shiv ST cars. You can count the amount of those on one hand Click here to enlarge Not so much reliability issues but supposed NDA problems.

  7. #32
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    I ask numerous times if Shiv was going offer a ceramic coating vs a header wrap. Never got a response.

    Not sure why he sends kits out with that wrap, never like that stuff. Seen it cause a lot of problems before.


  8. #33
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M3_WC Click here to enlarge
    I ask numerous times if Shiv was going offer a ceramic coating vs a header wrap. Never got a response.

    Not sure why he sends kits out with that wrap, never like that stuff. Seen it cause a lot of problems before.
    I think that is actually up to FFTEC since they are building them. That being said, I do remember seeing an FFTEC/Vishnu ST customer post up pictures of his mani ceramic coated black. It looked good, but I'm not sure if he took the initiative to have it done after receiving the parts, or if FFTEC took care of it. I can't remember who or which forum I saw it on, so I am useless.

  9. #34
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    CaptainInsano races his ST car at the roadcourse where I'm sure he opens up a can of whoop ass on the competition. Click here to enlarge

    CaptainInsano shows no mercy

  10. #35
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    I was really hopeful that FBIS would show us something, I really wonder now what happened to him and his car.

  11. #36
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M3_WC Click here to enlarge
    I ask numerous times if Shiv was going offer a ceramic coating vs a header wrap. Never got a response.

    Not sure why he sends kits out with that wrap, never like that stuff. Seen it cause a lot of problems before.
    Can you elaborate on these problems? For my money and my personal vehicles, I'm wrapping everytime. Sure coatings looking nice and are easy to deal with but the titanium wrap flat out works. You ever see people complaining that wrap caused their cheap headers and down pipes to crack? This because it keeps all the heat IN as it supposed to do. This helps spool and keeps your engine bay much cooler. Coatings cannot match in my opinion wrap as far as thermal control. Sure a few people here and there let it get soaked with oil and had a fire etc. Thousands of vehicles race cars included always wrap, you think it's because race teams can't afford to cost their parts? No it's because the wrap works better in controlling heat. I really do love coatings for ease of use and no pain in the ass wrapping. But it simply doesn't do a good as job of thermal control.

  12. #37
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by amclint Click here to enlarge
    I was really hopeful that FBIS would show us something, I really wonder now what happened to him and his car.
    He still has it. Is pretty disenchanted with the whe vishu experience based off my conversation with him.

  13. #38
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    Can you elaborate on these problems? For my money and my personal vehicles, I'm wrapping everytime. Sure coatings looking nice and are easy to deal with but the titanium wrap flat out works. You ever see people complaining that wrap caused their cheap headers and down pipes to crack? This because it keeps all the heat IN as it supposed to do. This helps spool and keeps your engine bay much cooler. Coatings cannot match in my opinion wrap as far as thermal control. Sure a few people here and there let it get soaked with oil and had a fire etc. Thousands of vehicles race cars included always wrap, you think it's because race teams can't afford to cost their parts? No it's because the wrap works better in controlling heat. I really do love coatings for ease of use and no pain in the ass wrapping. But it simply doesn't do a good as job of thermal control.
    The wrap does work better for heat when properly applied. I've just never been a big fan of it for various reasons. But the nice thing about your setup is we can just get the manifolds coated before they are sent out. Click here to enlarge
    Burger Motorsports
    Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, N63s, S55s, and S63s!

    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

  14. #39
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    He still has it. Is pretty disenchanted with the whe vishu experience based off my conversation with him.
    I haven't spoken to him in awhile, but last time I did, I think he was looking for more power. Probably needs to upgrade to that 6466 turbo they replaced his with.
    Burger Motorsports
    Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, N63s, S55s, and S63s!

    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

  15. #40
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    @creaminz just saw you today on the 101 north cruising through Santa Barbara. Car looks good! As soon as I saw the red mirrors, I was like hey that car looks familiar.

  16. #41
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    1 out of 2 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu Click here to enlarge
    Tmo sold his car to his best friend who is turning it into a dedicated race car or sorts. The slow spool issue tmo had at ShiftSector turned out to be clogged stock secondary cats which has been resolved. Tmo decided it was best for him to focus on useless things like getting married and buying a house. Sounds odd if u ask me. Of course I orchestrated this whole thing with my bullying tactics and high level physical intimidation techniques. Now back to your regular programming... Click here to enlarge
    Thought you would be commenting about the under hood heat & melted partsClick here to enlarge
    Kevin
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    Can you elaborate on these problems? For my money and my personal vehicles, I'm wrapping everytime. Sure coatings looking nice and are easy to deal with but the titanium wrap flat out works. You ever see people complaining that wrap caused their cheap headers and down pipes to crack? This because it keeps all the heat IN as it supposed to do. This helps spool and keeps your engine bay much cooler. Coatings cannot match in my opinion wrap as far as thermal control. Sure a few people here and there let it get soaked with oil and had a fire etc. Thousands of vehicles race cars included always wrap, you think it's because race teams can't afford to cost their parts? No it's because the wrap works better in controlling heat. I really do love coatings for ease of use and no pain in the ass wrapping. But it simply doesn't do a good as job of thermal control.
    Not saying Ti wrap won't aid in creating a thermal barrier, BUT if Ti were so great at dealing with heat, the Jet engine company I work for wouldn't be spending SOOOOO much money in developing new coatings for our engine mtls that already outperform Ti by >1000F. The issue you would see with ceramic coatings and why you could end up with cracked manifolds is going to be due to different thermal expansion rates between the manifold mtl and the ceramic coating...as well as the interaction of the 2 mtls at the interface. I'm not a mtls engineer, but have heard SS should NEVER be ceramic coated. I believe there are some corrosive properties at work there. (cathode anode?) Now, it would be interesting to see an Inconel manifold with a quality (bondcoat and TBC) ceramic coating. Also, with ceramic coatings, they do wear and will require grit blasting and redoing over time. Perhaps this is where the issues have come from as well?

  18. #43
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mycoupe Click here to enlarge
    Not saying Ti wrap won't aid in creating a thermal barrier, BUT if Ti were so great at dealing with heat, the Jet engine company I work for wouldn't be spending SOOOOO much money in developing new coatings for our engine mtls that already outperform Ti by >1000F. The issue you would see with ceramic coatings and why you could end up with cracked manifolds is going to be due to different thermal expansion rates between the manifold mtl and the ceramic coating...as well as the interaction of the 2 mtls at the interface. I'm not a mtls engineer, but have heard SS should NEVER be ceramic coated. I believe there are some corrosive properties at work there. (cathode anode?) Now, it would be interesting to see an Inconel manifold with a quality (bondcoat and TBC) ceramic coating. Also, with ceramic coatings, they do wear and will require grit blasting and redoing over time. Perhaps this is where the issues have come from as well?
    Im hoping I read this wrong and you didn't just compare a turbo kit to a jet engine. In other news the space shuttle does not use wrap it uses ridiculously expensive state of the art thermal materials and coatings. Good thing we all have access to and can afford such coatings. As I said for my money and my personal cars I will wrap. It's much better then the coatings we actually have available to us, meaning the only ones that matter.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    Im hoping I read this wrong and you didn't just compare a turbo kit to a jet engine. In other news the space shuttle does not use wrap it uses ridiculously expensive state of the art thermal materials and coatings. Good thing we all have access to and can afford such coatings. As I said for my money and my personal cars I will wrap. It's much better then the coatings we actually have available to us, meaning the only ones that matter.
    Oh C'mon, Aerogel isn't THAT expensive per pound.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 135Hoser Click here to enlarge
    per pound.
    Click here to enlarge
    boop

  21. #46
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    Im hoping I read this wrong and you didn't just compare a turbo kit to a jet engine. In other news the space shuttle does not use wrap it uses ridiculously expensive state of the art thermal materials and coatings. Good thing we all have access to and can afford such coatings. As I said for my money and my personal cars I will wrap. It's much better then the coatings we actually have available to us, meaning the only ones that matter.
    I think you may have misread. I am not suggesting that we spend money on mtls that are WAY beyond our needs. What I am saying is that a good >2000F TBC (thermal barrier coating ie ceramic coating) with a proper bondcoat (primer in essence) that are matched with the material they are being applied to based on their reactivity together both at ambient and at heat (as alloying can happen at temp in some combos depending on the elements in the TBC) and based on their thermal expansion coefficients (if they aren't pretty close, there will be cracking of something somewhere).

    Also, I would bet that the majority of cermaic coated pipes crack at the welds, as most people do not grind down and smooth out the interior of the pipe after the welds. This would cause all sorts of stress risers and heat sinks in the interior coating and cause the ceramic coating to wear down much faster than normal, and once it's gone, well....still a stress riser, still a heat sink, but now it's not coated like the rest of the manifold/pipes/etc and in soaking up all the heat and cooling at different rates than the coated mtl around these worn spots, and crack!

    Sorry for the long winded response.

  22. #47
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mycoupe Click here to enlarge
    I think you may have misread. I am not suggesting that we spend money on mtls that are WAY beyond our needs. What I am saying is that a good >2000F TBC (thermal barrier coating ie ceramic coating) with a proper bondcoat (primer in essence) that are matched with the material they are being applied to based on their reactivity together both at ambient and at heat (as alloying can happen at temp in some combos depending on the elements in the TBC) and based on their thermal expansion coefficients (if they aren't pretty close, there will be cracking of something somewhere).

    Also, I would bet that the majority of cermaic coated pipes crack at the welds, as most people do not grind down and smooth out the interior of the pipe after the welds. This would cause all sorts of stress risers and heat sinks in the interior coating and cause the ceramic coating to wear down much faster than normal, and once it's gone, well....still a stress riser, still a heat sink, but now it's not coated like the rest of the manifold/pipes/etc and in soaking up all the heat and cooling at different rates than the coated mtl around these worn spots, and crack!

    Sorry for the long winded response.
    Wow, I've never heard of ceramic coating causing a header to crack. I know this happens with wrapped headers since the wrap maintains much more heat than ceramic coating; but never heard of ceramic coating being an issue. Is this common, or does it only happen when the base material is garbage?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    Can you elaborate on these problems? For my money and my personal vehicles, I'm wrapping everytime. Sure coatings looking nice and are easy to deal with but the titanium wrap flat out works. You ever see people complaining that wrap caused their cheap headers and down pipes to crack? This because it keeps all the heat IN as it supposed to do. This helps spool and keeps your engine bay much cooler. Coatings cannot match in my opinion wrap as far as thermal control. Sure a few people here and there let it get soaked with oil and had a fire etc. Thousands of vehicles race cars included always wrap, you think it's because race teams can't afford to cost their parts? No it's because the wrap works better in controlling heat. I really do love coatings for ease of use and no pain in the ass wrapping. But it simply doesn't do a good as job of thermal control.
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Eleventeen Click here to enlarge
    Wow, I've never heard of ceramic coating causing a header to crack. I know this happens with wrapped headers since the wrap maintains much more heat than ceramic coating; but never heard of ceramic coating being an issue. Is this common, or does it only happen when the base material is garbage?
    Not sure if trying to argue or not? Any who, I have heard of people having a lot of oxidation issues due to ceramic coatings on headers and dp's. Not sure what the metal was. I'm going to pick some brains in the coatings group at work to get more metallurgical info on metal/TBC combos. Personally, I prefer the idea of a coating and maybe a heatshield for temp control. Your thoughts on it?

  24. #49
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    I'm not trying to argue, I've just never heard anyone else mention those issues with coating. Actually, my hot parts are with the coater right now being done. Hopefully no issues arise.

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    I've also been told to never ceramic coat stainless. I have no bad personal experience, just something I was told by my fabricator friend.

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