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Thread: N54 DCT WR DYNO with SSP CLUTCH PACK

              
   
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    N54 DCT WR DYNO with SSP CLUTCH PACK

    Hey guys,

    Just wanted to share my story about my DCT build and my WR Dyno. This is not intended to start a tuning war or to make anyone look stupid *cough*cough* 135 pages of garbage.

    For starters I drive a 2012 335is with a DCT transmission, I began the build like every other enthusiast out there would, with a tune (JB4 to be exact). It later became FBO + meth + Protune with an upgraded clutch pack.

    As I mentioned the car originally ran the JB4 G5 iso + BMS flash. I will never put down the BMS name as I believe that they deliver a sound product and top notch customer service, but it just wasn't what I needed. The trans started encountering clutch slippage late last year while using any meth additive over 45 or being on map 7. The car gets beaten regularly and hits the strip at least once a month during the summer. It started off with some slippage during WOT shifts and later into not even being able to hold any power in the RPM range and sending the trans into a limp mode.

    Since I'm located up in Canada and don't drive much during the winter months, I called up Kris@ssp to discuss a possible clutch disc replacement. I was skeptical at first since theres a huge thread on how it doesn't work, but I took the leap of faith anyways and pulled the trigger on the new SSP 16 plate clutch pack.Boy i'm I happy now for not listening to sticky. Kris hooked me up with a local DCT master technician who fly's all over the world to upgrade GTR and Lambo clutches steve@SJL. In other words I was in great hands and I cannot thank Kris and Steve enough for the countless hours spent making my baby run how it should.

    There was a short trial and error period but as of Saturday May 4th, my car was finally done. The technician advised me to go the flash route as the BMW TCU gets all its values directly from the ECU and tricking it with a piggy was affecting various systems/sensors (mostly load related) within the TCU. Earlier this month I got a hold a Dzenno, who is local to me and told him what I was trying to do. I then purchased the pro tune + the HFS4 and WOW what a difference it is to drive.

    The car just goes, its hands down exactly what I wanted from this project when I started. Dzenno is a tuning god, I did both a road tune and a dyno tune and I can honestly say if your looking to bring your car to the next level I believe PTF is the way to go. It feels incredibly smooth and when needed it pulls like a freight train. The car currently runs 3 maps; one is a DD that is customized for 94+meth with conservative boost and timing. The next map is more aggressive running 94 + 100% meth and last but not least a map made strictly for race gas + meth.

    Going back towards the DCT build, I would consider myself to be a complete noobie regarding the DCT trans. I know about line pressure and the discs itself but after that its like solving a rubix cube. So for more information on regarding the upgrade, I ask you to please email Kris@SSP.

    I believe anyone trying to push big power with a DCT should give SSP a call and order these clutches. I've put on 1600 hard miles on them and not a single blip yet, the shifts are a tad firmer but still very comfortable for DD. I'm planning on getting a turbo upgrade by mid summer and well defiantly keep all of you posted. I intend to push the trans has hard as possibleClick here to enlarge!!

    The numbers below speak for themselves, consistent power pull after pull. We tried to hit 500tq but we didn't want to put to much stress on the turbos. Since I cannot dig up my baseline, I wanted to let you guys know that a FBO g5iso + bms flash on 75 additive went on after me and put down 425/485 nemo .

    I'll be hitting the track later this month with Dzenno , watch out buraQClick here to enlarge. Just waiting for my AD08s to come in, I truly believe this car can go deep into the 11s with its setup now.

    Video's...time slips and 60-120 runs will be posted later this month, just incase some of you don't believe it works.

    Do yourself a favour and contact PTF to get a fully customized map, I promise you wont regret it.

    Much thanks Dzenno@PTF, Kris@SSP, Steve@SJL, Ivo@columbusautomotive and all the boys part of JBC!!!

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    Interesting...

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    @Serps, enjoy it buddy, been a pleasure Click here to enlarge That car may have just given hope to a true built DCT N54. I am also starting to consider it as a viable alternative to my 6MT. It shifts INSANELY fast, firm shifts and the thing just hauls.
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    N54 DCT World Record (Race Gas + Meth + SSP Clutches), Stock Turbos: 450WHP / 490WTQ
    N54 (ACN 91 octane only) World Record, Stock Motor: 573WHP / 537WTQ
    N54 (96-98 octane, no meth) World Record,
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    N54 (ERC 109 unleaded octane and meth) World Record, Stock Motor:
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    bobS is offline Member
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    Wow...Any plans on taking this car to the track? I bet a built dct would put down some wicked numbers
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    Nice results. Now get that V1 hardwired Click here to enlarge
    FBO / HFS-4 / Cobb PTF tune

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    what is the cost of this upgraded clutch pack? this looks like great info!
    2007 335i (100% stock with mods)

    N54 is not a German 2JZ lol

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Serps Click here to enlarge
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    The technician advised me to go the flash route as the BMW TCU gets all its values directly from the ECU and tricking it with a piggy was affecting various systems/sensors (mostly load related) within the TCU.
    That is absolutely true. I know of a number of people in Germany who have tried to combine the DCT with a piggyback (mostly JB4) and it didn't drive well at all. One of them destroyed his DCT and was lucky as he didn't have to pay most of the 11K (EUR!) bill himself.

    Thanks for your detailed report, that is certainly very useful for those running a DCT car.

    Alpina_B3_Lux
    SOLD: E90 335i LCI

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    PTF does it again! Very curious to see how this thing does at the strip!
    Click here to enlarge

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    Damn, you sir need up turbos and if the DCT holds, you would own quite a few records.
    2015 - m4 or 991 Turbo S - hopefully
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    Impressive numbers on stock turbos!! Congrats!
    E92 335i SB / Black Leather / 6AT / Navi Prof / Sunroof / Active Steering
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    Looks good. 4th or 5th gear pulls?

    The DCT is a great trans from a roll but if you plan on drag racing it get ready to be disappointed. It's harder to launch than a manual IMHO and we know how those do vs. steptronics at the dragstrip. But for airport runs they outperform AT and MTs handily.
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    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Alpina_B3_Lux Click here to enlarge
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    That is absolutely true. I know of a number of people in Germany who have tried to combine the DCT with a piggyback (mostly JB4) and it didn't drive well at all. One of them destroyed his DCT and was lucky as he didn't have to pay most of the 11K (EUR!) bill himself.

    Thanks for your detailed report, that is certainly very useful for those running a DCT car.

    Alpina_B3_Lux
    Yes, with the DCT when going for huge torque values then you want it to be aware of true torque. Or even more than true torque. Several changes have been made to our back end DCT flash, similar to the steptronic flash, to ensure the trans is seeing a very high torque value.
    Burger Motorsports
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    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Yes, with the DCT when going for huge torque values then you want it to be aware of true torque. Or even more than true torque. Several changes have been made to our back end DCT flash, similar to the steptronic flash, to ensure the trans is seeing a very high torque value.
    Terry, this car had the latest G5 ISO and the very latest BMS flash
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    N54 DCT World Record (Race Gas + Meth + SSP Clutches), Stock Turbos: 450WHP / 490WTQ
    N54 (ACN 91 octane only) World Record, Stock Motor: 573WHP / 537WTQ
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    So, nobody asked. Why does your clutch packs work and Sticky's do not?
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    Damn good results!!!
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    Nice! SSP huh

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Terry, this car had the latest G5 ISO and the very latest BMS flash
    He said the trans started slipping late last year? We didn't add the DCT adjustments until maybe 2 months ago? And those are still being refined as we get more feedback. Anyway don't want to derail his thread. If anyone has a slipping DCT and the bms back end flash just drop me a note for the fix. Click here to enlarge

    PS. I dyno tested a DCT/meth car a couple months ago and found if you dyno it in 5th gear on a dyno jet it makes around 10-15rw more than 4th gear. I told him the 5th gear runs were "cheater pulls" lol. But IIRC he did around 435rw in 4th and 445rw in 5th. Still some more tuning to go on that one though. Will get it back on the dyno in a week or two with the latest updates.
    Last edited by Terry@BMS; 05-06-2013 at 12:01 PM.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fastgti69 Click here to enlarge
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    So, nobody asked. Why does your clutch packs work and Sticky's do not?
    That and what's different in the DCT in the 335is vs the M3?

    I'm hoping this will hold up well and, if so, very good news for the platform. Advantage is/DCT until the 6AT gets a real set of clutches of its own...

    Gotta get this thing to the track!

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    Autobahn335i is offline Member
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fastgti69 Click here to enlarge
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    So, nobody asked. Why does your clutch packs work and Sticky's do not?
    Well the M3 DCT is different and we don't know how much power Sticky's car puts down. 450whp is nice, especially on stock snails, but it's still far from big turbo(s) power levels.
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    I'm not sure stickys dct doesn't work?
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    Think everybody should look a little harder, Sticky's car is running fine as of yesterday. Turns out SSP (who did the DCT work) installed the clutch pack backwards. Because Sticky's car is pushing serious power, it'll be interesting to see how the clutches hold up once he cranks up the boost.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fastgti69 Click here to enlarge
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    So, nobody asked. Why does your clutch packs work and Sticky's do not?
    Proper Install goes a long way

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BavarianBullet Click here to enlarge
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    That and what's different in the DCT in the 335is vs the M3?=
    DCT Programming -- Same Physical DCT, Completely Different Software


    Here's Sticky's thread (a NEW one) regarding the DCT clutch pack being reinstalled correctly & a quick, 3-4-5 pull with the YSI. This is a great sign (especially if you were having clutch slip), but I think Sticky's (or a Stage 2/3 N54) is going to be a better testament to an upgraded clutch pack.
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    That's what I thought^. Which honestly still makes ssp look bad because rather than looking into it they just assumed the worst lol
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    Wow thats awesome news!
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
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    Looks good. 4th or 5th gear pulls?

    The DCT is a great trans from a roll but if you plan on drag racing it get ready to be disappointed. It's harder to launch than a manual IMHO and we know how those do vs. steptronics at the dragstrip. But for airport runs they outperform AT and MTs handily.
    Couldn't agree more the DCT is a PITA to launch, but I feel with LSD and sticky tires it will be a beast at the strip.

    All pulls where done in 5th

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fastgti69 Click here to enlarge
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    So, nobody asked. Why does your clutch packs work and Sticky's do not?
    I don't want to into specific details but I can let you know that it wasn't an SSP hardware issue as he suggested.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Autobahn335i Click here to enlarge
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    Well the M3 DCT is different and we don't know how much power Sticky's car puts down. 450whp is nice, especially on stock snails, but it's still far from big turbo(s) power levels.
    TQ is what kills the trans, I've yet to see a blown M3 push over 450tq... As for HP #s Only time will tell, but I have faith that my trans can hold VTT stg 2 or RBs for sure and probably stg 3 when COBB allows us to crack into the TCU like the GTR and play with the parameters.... as a side note the M3 DCT is identical to all other BMW DCT platforms offered today including the new M5/M6 just with adjusted mechatronics.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    He said the trans started slipping late last year? We didn't add the DCT adjustments until maybe 2 months ago? And those are still being refined as we get more feedback. Anyway don't want to derail his thread. If anyone has a slipping DCT and the bms back end flash just drop me a note for the fix. Click here to enlarge
    Again, he ran your latest G5 ISO firmware along with the latest BMS flash on THIS transmission. It didn't work well at all unfortunately and that's why the car was brought to us to see if on Cobb only we'd have any more luck with it. We didn't know if it'd work out well either when we started but it turned out great. We'll see how it puts up with abuse at the track. Really hoping it stands up to the beating Joe will throw at it as its a very promising upgrade.

    The other car that went after Joe's on the dyno with the G5 ISO and also the latest BMS flash (6MT race gas+meth+spec clutch) did 420whp on latest map7 with race gas and meth. Then the car was dynoed on map3 with 75 meth add doing 428whp. He'll be trying out a pro tune as well soon to see how it compares to his G5 ISO+BMS Flash stack setup...
    Click here to enlargeCobb ProTune & eTune Services
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    N54 6MT TwinTurbo 1/4 Mile World Record: 11.43@126.6mph, 1.8 60', Stock 6MT 3.08 Gearing (Cayuga - Toronto Motorsports Park)
    N54 6MT TwinTurbo 60-130mph World Record: 6.5sec 100-200km/hr, 7.5sec 60-130mph (vbox verified)
    N54 DCT World Record (Race Gas + Meth + SSP Clutches), Stock Turbos: 450WHP / 490WTQ
    N54 (ACN 91 octane only) World Record, Stock Motor: 573WHP / 537WTQ
    N54 (96-98 octane, no meth) World Record,
    Stock Motor: 673WHP / 564WTQ
    N54 (ERC 109 unleaded octane and meth) World Record, Stock Motor:
    725WHP / 609WTQ
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