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  1. #176
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 654 Click here to enlarge
    The fleet average to be achieved by new cars is 130 grams of CO2 per kilometre (g/km) by 2015 and 95g/km by 2020. The EU fleet average target of 130g CO2 per km will be phased in between 2012 and 2015. In 2012, an average of 65% of each manufacturer's newly registered cars must comply with the limit value curve set by the legislation. This will rise to 75% in 2013, 80% in 2014 and 100% in 2015. So poease don't look at the cars that were released last year or this year. These limits get a lot more difficult each year.

    Moreover, due to the CO2 based taxation in many countries the customers need to get more and more efficient cars in order to be able to afford M3, i.e. hoping it to be less than $250 000 with all the CO2 taxes. This is not really a matter of choice. You will see that practicaclly all the cars will be either electric or turbocharged. Audi and Merdedes must follow the same way, there is no way around it.
    Yes - that's the thing though... It's fleet average - so they can offset. Like - in other words, they can make one car that's a sports car with "bad" emissions, and offset with another car (maybe electric).

    Point is, there is no reason we can't have a V8 or V10 car in the future; I think this part is misunderstood.

  2. #177
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 654 Click here to enlarge
    The fleet average to be achieved by new cars is 130 grams of CO2 per kilometre (g/km) by 2015 and 95g/km by 2020. The EU fleet average target of 130g CO2 per km will be phased in between 2012 and 2015. In 2012, an average of 65% of each manufacturer's newly registered cars must comply with the limit value curve set by the legislation. This will rise to 75% in 2013, 80% in 2014 and 100% in 2015. So poease don't look at the cars that were released last year or this year. These limits get a lot more difficult each year.

    Moreover, due to the CO2 based taxation in many countries the customers need to get more and more efficient cars in order to be able to afford M3, i.e. hoping it to be less than $250 000 with all the CO2 taxes. This is not really a matter of choice. You will see that practicaclly all the cars will be either electric or turbocharged. Audi and Merdedes must follow the same way, there is no way around it.
    Bloody hell! In China the factories dump their $#@! into the atmosphere without filters but we will soon be forced to drive a Prius!! But no-one dares to put pressure on China since their industry is now the motor of the world economy, as we are stuck in recession.

    Salvaged cars from Europe are shipped to Africa by thousands, where they will continue to pollute the atmosphere. "Aus den Augen, aus dem Sinn" as a german saying goes...

    I agree that everyone has to contribute their part to preserve our planet, but at times it gets ridiculous!
    E92 335i SB / Black Leather / 6AT / Navi Prof / Sunroof / Active Steering
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  3. #178
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by inlineS54B32 Click here to enlarge
    Yes - that's the thing though... It's fleet average - so they can offset. Like - in other words, they can make one car that's a sports car with "bad" emissions, and offset with another car (maybe electric).

    Point is, there is no reason we can't have a V8 or V10 car in the future; I think this part is misunderstood.
    In theory yes, but in practice it is impossible to develop a lot of electric car models for which there is no real market anyways. Currently Bmw has only one combustion model that meets the 2020 target. Each model has a long way to go to meet the fleet target.

    Edit: sorry, correction: none of the models meets the 95g as the lowest is 99g.

  4. #179
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    That is right... A NA V8-V10 can be done but is also within the EU less attractive as high emission engines affect the road taxes big time.

  5. #180
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Torgus Click here to enlarge
    They already have electric bmws...infact I see one around town and plugged in at the airport all the time.
    Yes they have an electric 1-Series so yep, there's how they will eliminate turbo lag... with an electric motor.

  6. #181
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by StinkyM Click here to enlarge
    So, just because the Z4M has the S54 and is quite similar to the 3.0si; does that mean it's not an M car? All it has is the S54. There's more to it than strapping parts to make them an M car sticky. Quoting lightning lap times, the 1M coupe does it in 3:06.6 and the 135i in 3:13.7. That's a huge difference using the same engine, different brakes, larger tires, wheels, etc. 7 seconds to me, means huge improvement, which also means to me, it's an M car. M cars are not and have not always been just about the engine. It's the total package that makes them phenominal.

    Let's also talk about the 6 second difference between the F13 M6 and the E62 M6. 6 second difference. That is an M car sticky. That shows huge improvement over the previous years. It may not be the fastest in its segment, but it delivers the best overall experience.

    I quoted these times because M cars homes should be on the track. We never got the 2.3l Evo in the E30, none of the Euro E36's, not the CSL, and definitely not the GTS nor the CRT. So what, they were all ridiculously expensive, and more than likely no one here would own one. Where's all the people here with M3 LTW's? Hm sure is a whole lot of those left around sitting in garages collecting dust. That was the last chance we had to own lightweight cars and they did generate not nearly enough revenue nor interest. That's why there is no GTS, CSL, etc etc. The amount of testing for crashes and emissions is ridiculous. It's the same reason the Skylines are not legally imported here. No one will step up and pay the major costs to make them compliant.
    The Z4M has the S54 and is an M car. The Z4M example makes no sense to me nobody has ever questioned whether it is an M car.

    You can take basically anything and improve the suspension, tires, brakes, give it a tune, and improve the laptime. So what?

    The F13 M6 and E63 M6 differ mostly due to power. The new M6 isn't some amazing handling machine, it's still a boat. Just a boat that limps home now after a track session.

    Regarding the CSL and GTS, our pricing would be less as it always is. We don't have taxes included in the price. Mercedes imports their Black Series cars. BMW could import the CSL and GTS, they just are cheap and don't care.

  7. #182
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by inlineS54B32 Click here to enlarge
    Yes - that's the thing though... It's fleet average - so they can offset. Like - in other words, they can make one car that's a sports car with "bad" emissions, and offset with another car (maybe electric).

    Point is, there is no reason we can't have a V8 or V10 car in the future; I think this part is misunderstood.
    This.

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