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  1. #26
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    The F-Gen is gonna be a REAL dark time for the M Division. Hopefully after a noticeable decrease in sales & lack of enthusiasts praise, BMW will let the M Division do their thing (race cars for the street) and let BMW do theirs (Efficient Dynamics BS).


    I foresee a LOT of people staying (or looking to get back into) E9x M3s or completely changing platforms.
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  2. #27
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by StinkyM Click here to enlarge
    Us spec e36 m3 ring a bell?
    This is exactly what I was thinking, and that was a very successful m car!

    I'll reserve judgement till the new m3 comes out....I don't think this is a good thing but m cars aren't ferrari's , imagine the cost to develop a new engine for every generation? One would hope this would keep the price down on m models, it should, but it probably won't.....
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  3. #28
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    I could very well see myself buying a 12' or 13' e92 m3 in a couple years but I'd hate to ruin the stock characteristics of the motor with a supercharger...I just wish it could be faster from the factory and stay a NA v8
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  4. #29
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    I foresee costs being cut enabling BMW to put more focus elsewhere. It's funny to see some people complain about what BMW isn't offering anymore. Look at what having different engines in models does. Lets just hope by cutting those costs it allows BMW to focus on chassis and aerodynamics development. In order to keep the costs where they are something has to give. Besides the n series platforms are great engines to build from the ground up in which m more then likely will continue to do. The s63tu is great and I am sure the m4's concoction will be great as well. Quit worrying the car isn't even close to production yet. In the meantime look at how much lighter alloy, carbon fiber parts, and other lightweight materials drive up costs. All I care about is an all aluminum chassis.
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  5. #30
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    Time to save money for the M8 since hopefully that have more pure internals at the premium price they r already charging for the F12/F10 M6/M5. Especially since Marquadt and co went through hell trying to get that car approved for production.

  6. #31
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bobS Click here to enlarge
    I just wish it could be faster from the factory and stay a NA v8
    Probably not in a v8 platform (or you have to increse the size a lot).
    BMW chose the v8 for the e9x because a 6 in line was at it's peak with the s54.
    More NA HP usually means more cilinders imho, especially when you want high revs.
    But for a lot of markets the co2 emissions is an important factor due to taxes etc. coupled to that co2 emission.
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  7. #32
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    The F-Gen is gonna be a REAL dark time for the M Division. Hopefully after a noticeable decrease in sales & lack of enthusiasts praise, BMW will let the M Division do their thing (race cars for the street) and let BMW do theirs (Efficient Dynamics BS).
    I foresee a LOT of people staying (or looking to get back into) E9x M3s or completely changing platforms.
    Exactly... motors aside, the F series is no longer a true BMW 3 series, it's a piece of junk that drives like every other car. Bmw cannot make the M car a lot better than the base it was built on. The entire E90/92 series were bricks, this is a RWD civic. Yes, I hate to say it but this is the truth. The N54 was a knockout and it wasn't even in an M car... what could they do right now to make things solid? Nothing really, you can't offer a more powerful NA motor without having major issues from the competition and cost side of things. Another turbo 6 motor is going to be very difficult to make better when comparing to the N54.
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  8. #33
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    The next me should have a 3.5-4L V8 with two turbo's on it. Takes the awesome of the N54 and adapts it to M philosophy.

  9. #34
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    BMW already does 3 turbo's on their top diesels, and that yielded some 25%. The new m3 was also rumoured to get a tri turbo Click here to enlarge
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  10. #35
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    I saw this $#@! coming years ago. Anyways, wtf is this idiot thinking? AMG is going all $#@!ing out in their special AMG motors. These guys would never put a regular Benz engine in an AMG labelled machine. WTF IS ///M doing? Lol a $#@!ing joke now....
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  11. #36
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    I think it's easy for BMW to improve on the n54, give it more hp/tq from the factory with a better designed head, exhaust mani, turbos, injectors, fueling, etc, for 420-430 factory hp and you'll then see fbo tune only m3's pushing 520-540 whp...while still using the dme logic that makes the n54 so bulletproof and mod friendly...this is all speculation of course, but not a far reach. Imagine just a tune, dp's and intake and 520whp? In a car that weighs the same or less than the e9x platform? Sounds pretty good.
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  12. #37
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    I think it's a wise move for BMW and should be good for us too.
    1. More engine (Or similar) on the road = more debugged engine = Higher reliability.
    2. Lower development cost --> BMW need to drop their price for that.
    2. Probably going to be cheaper to maintain.
    3. Easier to find a tune and aftermarket parts

    On the other way, I really like the m135i and the 1M. I can't be against that move, makes senses for me.

    I also think that BMW looked at Audi before doing their move. The new S6 engine is a de-tuned version of the S8 and a copy of the 4.0T in the regular A8. Put a tune into a S6, make 520 hp and save 20k$ compare to the M5 and get free front wheel drive for the snow Click here to enlarge.

  13. #38
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I most certainly do.



    The US Spec E36 wasn't as much of a parts bin car and it did receive an internally designated "M" motor as you stated. Not as fancy as the S50B32 but for the time period not much was.

    I wouldn't call them equally capable. One is an M car with M division touches, the other is a parts bin car that takes M bits from a sibling and the motor from standard 3-Series with only software changes. One of these cars follows the philosophy the head of M is laying out here in this article to a T and and it's not the E36.

    Additionally, something people may be forgetting about the E36 M3 is that it is the only naturally aspirated M motor I can think of without individual throttle bodies which opens up some interesting forced induction options. Maybe a blessing in disguise.
    only the E36 M3 in the states had a severely crippled engine

    E36's in the rest of the world are amazing!

  14. #39
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Factory tuned N55 I would think.
    factory tuned (though more modified than this article indicated i believe) with two turbos last time i read? so a FAIR bit different to the base model N55?

  15. #40
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bobS Click here to enlarge
    I think it's easy for BMW to improve on the n54, give it more hp/tq from the factory with a better designed head, exhaust mani, turbos, injectors, fueling, etc, for 420-430 factory hp and you'll then see fbo tune only m3's pushing 520-540 whp...while still using the dme logic that makes the n54 so bulletproof and mod friendly...this is all speculation of course, but not a far reach. Imagine just a tune, dp's and intake and 520whp? In a car that weighs the same or less than the e9x platform? Sounds pretty good.

    Right, but that's not what the S motors have been about... The throttle response of the N5X engines alone is reason enough for them to be excluded as a true race-bred motor. No ITBs, no high redline, etc.

    If the only reason to buy an M is power, there are MUCH better options out there.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DanMtl Click here to enlarge
    I think it's a wise move for BMW and should be good for us too.
    1. More engine (Or similar) on the road = more debugged engine = Higher reliability.
    2. Lower development cost --> BMW need to drop their price for that.
    2. Probably going to be cheaper to maintain.
    3. Easier to find a tune and aftermarket parts

    On the other way, I really like the m135i and the 1M. I can't be against that move, makes senses for me.

    I also think that BMW looked at Audi before doing their move. The new S6 engine is a de-tuned version of the S8 and a copy of the 4.0T in the regular A8. Put a tune into a S6, make 520 hp and save 20k$ compare to the M5 and get free front wheel drive for the snow Click here to enlarge.

    Higher reliability? The N54/55 has terrible reliability issues - oil temp, carbon buildup, limp mode - I can go on and on. We are confusing a street car with a race engine with a street car with a sporty engine to compare with G35/G37s. This is the worst decision they have ever made.

    And in regard to the m135i and the 1M - we already have it. Why make a 3 series with the exact same $#@!?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by danniexi Click here to enlarge
    Agreed.

    Dare I say it (and I'll probably get flamed for this), but in my perspective, the ///M cars are NOT about engines. It's all about the chassis + suspension. The 1M success proves this.
    Except with the newer M cars, they are not living up to that heritage.

    Just watched Motorweek lay into the M6's handling and steering. Such strong statements from them is rare.


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    Definitely don't mind turbo engines. Heck, who doesn't like a motor on a little steroid (cheap power will never go away). The issue we are concerned about is the damn premium being charged for these turbo cars. I have to say our 135 & X5M have both given us more issues (injectors, fuel pumps etc that becomes more expensive after warranty is gone) than the our E92 M3 that gets beaten up on the track under a 115 degree summer weather. Love the fact that BMW came with initial N54 without oil coolers. If cost is the reason why BMW is doing this, then I hope they are not going to butcher us with nasty premiums. Need my NA high revving lightweight block monsters back!!!!

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    So the next M3/M4 is getting electric steering. At least the articles puts off that vibe.

  20. #45
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Triple M Click here to enlarge
    Definitely don't mind turbo engines. Heck, who doesn't like a motor on a little steroid (cheap power will never go away). The issue we are concerned about is the damn premium being charged for these turbo cars. I have to say our 135 & X5M have both given us more issues (injectors, fuel pumps etc that becomes more expensive after warranty is gone) than the our E92 M3 that gets beaten up on the track under a 115 degree summer weather. Love the fact that BMW came with initial N54 without oil coolers. If cost is the reason why BMW is doing this, then I hope they are not going to butcher us with nasty premiums. Need my NA high revving lightweight block monsters back!!!!
    I think the M4 msrp is going to shock some people.


  21. #46
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by inlineS54B32 Click here to enlarge
    Right, but that's not what the S motors have been about... The throttle response of the N5X engines alone is reason enough for them to be excluded as a true race-bred motor. No ITBs, no high redline, etc.

    If the only reason to buy an M is power, there are MUCH better options out there.
    I know that's what the s motors are all about. Maybe BMW will develop a focused track car with a NA motor and charge a premium price? Who knows.... Maybe ///m will learn the hard way that this direction is a mistake, I guess we'll see.
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    wow there goes the neighborhood!!!!

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bobS Click here to enlarge
    I know that's what the s motors are all about. Maybe BMW will develop a focused track car with a NA motor and charge a premium price? Who knows.... Maybe ///m will learn the hard way that this direction is a mistake, I guess we'll see.
    As long as the company makes big $$$, I don't think the share holders care much, sadly Click here to enlarge

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  24. #49
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    This will probably be a global trend. A trend that will make me appreciate my old pure sports cars more and more every year.

    But keep in mind, with this statement they will have to produce a baseline motor that will be capable of putting an M badge on it (for whatever that's worth now). This means that all the other series should be stronger now that they're just a few bolts ons away from M territory.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    More an M than a 1M ever will be.
    I think the 1M is really a bad example in this context, as at least for me it really successfully brought the "M" genes into the 1 series segment. Granted, it didn't have its own engine, but in the 1 series class I can understand that this is cost-wise not doable, and certainly not in the limited timespan they had at their disposal.

    What counts is the result of the overall package, in the end.

    And there the 1M is really a great combination. It's loads of fun to drive, has a strong straight six turbo engine with loads of torque, the chassis from the M3 with the limited slip differential, comparatively low weight and excellent handling capabilities - at an affordable price. What more can you ask for?

    To me that is much more a true "M" car in spirit as any of the X5/X6M or even the horribly overweight M5/M6 will ever be.

    I was at the Nürburgring yesterday and there was a plethora of 1M present. It looks a bit like this is the car that will replace the E46 M3 in the next few years as an affordable small street racer.

    I do agree though that with the more high-end cars like M3, M5 or M6 specific engines should be developed to distinguish the cars more from the normal 3/5/6 series. And in particular make an effort in weight savings, as the current F models are embarrassingly overweight (the 5/6 more so than the 3, but still).

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