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Thread: The "M" motor is officially dead, no more unique/ground up M engines - BMW confirms all future M (S series) motors to be based on motors already in production

              
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    The "M" motor is officially dead, no more unique/ground up M engines - BMW confirms all future M (S series) motors to be based on motors already in production

    So you know that awesome BMW S85 V10 revving over 8000 rpm giving somewhat of a direct link to the Motorsport division that seemed equally at home in an Italian exotic as it did under the hood of a BMW sport sedan? Yep, that one with the individual throttle bodies, over 100 horses per liter, that won all those awards, and that you could not get anything like it in a 550i, 545i, 535i, 530i, 528, or 525i? You know, a real unique M motor made specifically for an M car and only available in an M car? Say goodbye to ever seeing that again.

    Click here to enlarge

    From now on, every M motor will simply be based on an engine already in production. That means whatever cylinder count and block is already available in a chassis is all you will ever get standard model or M model be damned. The M purist has been moaning about this for years that BMW M motors will essentially just become their standard counterparts with some different software but the head of BMW M (Friedrich Nitschke) finally officially confirmed the days of the unique M motor built from the ground up by the M division are quite simply, over:

    Click here to enlarge

    So the engines will be closer to the standard engines. We already see that in the N63/S63 motors a good example being the X5 50i and X5 M. For BMW this means huge cost savings and that certain internal parts do not even need to be changed. For example, the same pistons can be used for both an M and non-M motor now:

    Click here to enlarge

    This is obviously a cost saving measure. BMW can share blocks, internals, and change software yet charge a huge premium. They can even offer performance software as a quick cash grab without having to change any hardware. The cost for the consumer doesn't become more affordable (M models are actually getting more expensive) but the profit margin for BMW increases. You get less, both for your dollar and in hardware choices, yet they make more. Hey, BimmerBoost tried to warn you.

    So don't expect to see anything made by the M-Division like an S54 ever again. Or an S38. Or an S65. Or an S85. Or an S14. Those are not motors you can just slap different software on and simply call M engines. The M division is officially dead kids along with BMW's pride, get it through your heads.

    This information all comes from an intereview by Car and Driver with head of M Friedrich Nitschke. It's quite amusing to see him believe the garbage he is spewing to Car and Driver. Some great lines to read:

    Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge

    The M5 and M6 are on a level with the competition weight wise? All wheel drive is too heavy? The competition has all wheel drive and weighs the same as BMW with rear wheel drive if not slightly less. A recent comparison of convertible GT's had the F12 BMW M6 come in last place because of poor driving dynamics and the heaviest curb weight by far with the car not offering much more than straightline acceleration.

    What the hell is Nitschke talking about?

    Game over kids, BMW M has buried their heads so far in the sand they can't smell their own BS.

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    $#@!s weak, I might as well convince my dad to go on the CPO Porsche route at this point. The new M6 doesn't impress me nor do the newer 991 series. 997 Turbo/GT2 is the way to go my friends, that is if you're a true driving enthusiast.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bmwtek Click here to enlarge
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    $#@!s weak, I might as well convince my dad to go on the CPO Porsche route at this point. The new M6 doesn't impress me nor do the newer 991 series. 997 Turbo/GT2 is the way to go my friends, that is if you're a true driving enthusiast.
    Porsche is doing this too only to a lesser degree. The direct injection blocks for the GT3, Turbo, Carrera S, etc., all are on the same assembly line now. At least the GT3 isn't just a Carrera S with a software induced higher redline.

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    Bad for M purists but great for people buying a lesser model with the intention of modifying it, there will be factory upgrades that are OEM quality in the M cars now. I am a glass is half full kind of person.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Njz Click here to enlarge
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    Bad for M purists but great for people buying a lesser model with the intention of modifying it, there will be factory upgrades that are OEM quality in the M cars now. I am a glass is half full kind of person.
    This is definitely the way to look at it but what's the point of an M car now? More power? Yay...

    This guy says straightline acceleration isn't what it is about yet that's exactly what they are making M cars all about. It's just AMG now but AMG is doing a better job.

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    Wow, I'm stunned. That's really the first step of the death of ///M. They'll just milk the cash cow with "M Performance parts" marketing BS as long as they can and leave the performance field to AMG. So sad.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Autobahn335i Click here to enlarge
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    That's really the first step of the death of ///M.
    First step? This happened quite a while ago.

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    Wow, money is money but damn! Wonder if AMG might be next?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 1Zed4 Click here to enlarge
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    Wow, money is money but damn! Wonder if AMG might be next?
    AMG at least changes displacement, internals, and offers even higher performance versions so it's not an issue (Black Series).

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    Us spec e36 m3 ring a bell?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by StinkyM Click here to enlarge
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    Us spec e36 m3 ring a bell?
    More an M than a 1M ever will be.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
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    More an M than a 1M ever will be.
    I dont think so. Granted it was na in a good chassis. For the time difference they both are perfectly capable as m cars. The 1m's only downfall is it uses the same n54. The us spec e36's only downfall was it used a stroked bored m52.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by StinkyM Click here to enlarge
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    I dont think so.
    I most certainly do.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by StinkyM Click here to enlarge
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    For the time difference they both are perfectly capable as m cars. The 1m's only downfall is it uses the same n54. The us spec e36's only downfall was it used a stroked bored m52.
    The US Spec E36 wasn't as much of a parts bin car and it did receive an internally designated "M" motor as you stated. Not as fancy as the S50B32 but for the time period not much was.

    I wouldn't call them equally capable. One is an M car with M division touches, the other is a parts bin car that takes M bits from a sibling and the motor from standard 3-Series with only software changes. One of these cars follows the philosophy the head of M is laying out here in this article to a T and and it's not the E36.

    Additionally, something people may be forgetting about the E36 M3 is that it is the only naturally aspirated M motor I can think of without individual throttle bodies which opens up some interesting forced induction options. Maybe a blessing in disguise.

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    x35i models are going to get a lot more popular.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
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    First step? This happened quite a while ago.
    Well I though they would take a turn again in the right direction. With Nitschke's statement in mind it's clear to me that the next M3/M4 engine will simply be a factory tuned N54 with a few minor changes maybe. Not a bad thing per se but certainly not what you would expect in the most important M car (from a sales numbers point of view at least).
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    So let me see if I understand this: the new M inline 6 will be an N54 with software changes, or will it get different internals?

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    I think this topic leans a bit too much on that an 'm car' is solely defined by the engine.
    A lot of /m's also have a unique drivetrain/suspension setup with 100% different parts.
    Sure the s50/s54/s65/s85 lineup is epic and beautifully constructed, but the 1m has a z4 n54 engine and m3 suspension setup and that has resulted in a great car too.
    And in the past /m devision also has produced the s52 engine which was not that great. So the /Marketing part has been around for a few decades imho Click here to enlarge
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by GuidoK Click here to enlarge
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    I think this topic leans a bit too much on that an 'm car' is solely defined by the engine.
    A lot of /m's also have a unique drivetrain/suspension setup with 100% different parts.
    Agreed.

    Dare I say it (and I'll probably get flamed for this), but in my perspective, the ///M cars are NOT about engines. It's all about the chassis + suspension. The 1M success proves this.

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    I can't even be mad, BMW has been setting us up for something like this for awhile IMO. It's been about saving money cand charging a premium since the e9x m3 came out.

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    Regarding the "M Motors", this was the elephant in the room & everybody knew this was a matter of time. Especially once the X5/X6 Ms came out with the S63, which was just a massaged N63 & then only confirmed with the S63 Tu in the M5/M6. I really hope that now that BMW has decided to ignore the heritage associated with the M3 badge by selling the M4 because it suits their new 4-series coupe marketing strategy, that they at least keep the M3/M4s engine a little more "M" then the highest engine option in the non-M 3 and 4 series.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Autobahn335i Click here to enlarge
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    Well I though they would take a turn again in the right direction. With Nitschke's statement in mind it's clear to me that the next M3/M4 engine will simply be a factory tuned N54 with a few minor changes maybe. Not a bad thing per se but certainly not what you would expect in the most important M car (from a sales numbers point of view at least).
    Factory tuned N55 I would think.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by GuidoK Click here to enlarge
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    I think this topic leans a bit too much on that an 'm car' is solely defined by the engine.
    A lot of /m's also have a unique drivetrain/suspension setup with 100% different parts.
    Sure the s50/s54/s65/s85 lineup is epic and beautifully constructed, but the 1m has a z4 n54 engine and m3 suspension setup and that has resulted in a great car too.
    And in the past /m devision also has produced the s52 engine which was not that great. So the /Marketing part has been around for a few decades imho Click here to enlarge
    Judge the car as it's true product, not by what badge it carries (x5m?.....get real)
    S52 is pretty damn great and the S50 is flat out epic. And they are "S" motors with physical changes and M engineering not just an M/N series motor with different software.

    Part of the M car is the M motor. Well, the ground up design M motor is dead.

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    I swear to God - I will never buy another M series. I so DEARLY want to scream this in this idiots ear - but cannot find any email information for this moron. Who the hell is this idiot? He should literally be fired for what he is saying. Until he is gone - and the next "good" M3 is made, I am buying Porsche. Hopefully they can win me back once I swap to the dark side.

    What a damn moron. This is basically screaming that the N54 with more boost will be in the next M3. How cute. Just what I wanted. Just like a 1M for more money. Who makes these decisions!

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by danniexi Click here to enlarge
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    Agreed.

    Dare I say it (and I'll probably get flamed for this), but in my perspective, the ///M cars are NOT about engines. It's all about the chassis + suspension. The 1M success proves this.

    No, you won't get flamed - but that's really the only car, and the "M3" truly is the M flagship car - not the 1M. I don't care about 1 or 2 cars, but this is an M3 we are talking about. Yes, it's about more than the engine - and it's also more than the chassis. It's both. However, this is nonsense, and they aren't fooling anyone except idiots.

    You want to pay 70k for a car that has the same engine as a regular 3 series, be my guest. I don't want a turbocharged engine - period. It's garbage.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
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    S52 is pretty damn great
    Still it absolutely doesn't compare to the s50/s54.
    No independent TB's, about 240bhp and I think it redlines in the low 7000rpm's.
    That's nothing compared to the s50 (as a period rival). It's basically a souped up m52 imho. And that's what bmw is planning now too.
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