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  1. #26
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lulz_m3 Click here to enlarge
    My smoking problem also remained after having the factory turbos replaced under warranty because of the wastegate rattle issue. Your turbo's are probably fine.
    So this smoking issue most likely must have something to do with the vacuum system/pcv?? So weird.. @ajm8127 would the upgraded rb check valve maby help with lessening the amount of smoke? Guess im gonna want to install high flow secondary cats next time I attempt to install the dp's..
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  2. #27
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mikolo-n54 Click here to enlarge
    So this smoking issue most likely must have something to do with the vacuum system/pcv?? So weird.. @ajm8127 would the upgraded rb check valve maby help with lessening the amount of smoke? Guess im gonna want to install high flow secondary cats next time I attempt to install the dp's..
    ajm has a pretty good hypothesis on what is causing the smoking, i believe he is working towards testing to confirm. The RB check valve basically solves a boost leak. The n54 has two modes of operation in terms of PCV systems - under WOT/boost it will allow the vacuum from the rear turbo intake to pull the crank case vapors out of the valvecover and be ingested by the rear turbo - and pushed back through the intake tract to be part of the combustion process. When you are just cruising around (engine in vacuum, no boost) the PCV system is now allowing the vacuum to suck the oil vapors into the intake ports directly from the valve-cover. The valve cover is suppose to separate the oil vapors from the actual oil (oil is suppose to drain back into the block) but the system is flawed and ineffective, so oil ends up getting sucked into the intake ports as well - causing the smoke screen.

    At least that's my understanding of the theory.
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  3. #28
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    lulz_m3 is correct as far as I know.

  4. #29
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lulz_m3 Click here to enlarge
    ajm has a pretty good hypothesis on what is causing the smoking, i believe he is working towards testing to confirm. The RB check valve basically solves a boost leak. The n54 has two modes of operation in terms of PCV systems - under WOT/boost it will allow the vacuum from the rear turbo intake to pull the crank case vapors out of the valvecover and be ingested by the rear turbo - and pushed back through the intake tract to be part of the combustion process. When you are just cruising around (engine in vacuum, no boost) the PCV system is now allowing the vacuum to suck the oil vapors into the intake ports directly from the valve-cover. The valve cover is suppose to separate the oil vapors from the actual oil (oil is suppose to drain back into the block) but the system is flawed and ineffective, so oil ends up getting sucked into the intake ports as well - causing the smoke screen.

    At least that's my understanding of the theory.
    Cool, it would be nice if we could get a fix together. That would benefit many with the same smoke issue. Unrelated but on average how much oil does your car consume, and what oil do you use? My last change I used mob1 0w-40 and it seems to have burned a quart a bit quicker then the oem stuff. Thanks again for the great posts guys, really helping me understand my issues.
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  5. #30
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    I use mobile 1 0w40 euro blend. I am down about a quart every 3-5k miles, which is when i change my oil. Controlling the oil temperature seems to be critical in our engines. I tried Motul 8100 xcess, but my oil ran about 10* hotter and it consumed a bit more rapidly, went back to the Mobile 1.
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  6. #31
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    @lulz_m3 what do you think about the smoke problem coming from the crank case vent valve? Many have told me this is most likely leaking and is why the car smokes so much with catless dp.
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  7. #32
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mikolo-n54 Click here to enlarge
    @lulz_m3 what do you think about the smoke problem coming from the crank case vent valve? Many have told me this is most likely leaking and is why the car smokes so much with catless dp.
    That valve controls the flow of oily air to the rear turbo inlet. This is where the BMS oil catch can make a quality difference, it will help catch some of the oil that would normally be sucked into the rear turbo and pushed into the intercooler and coat your charge piping. It would take a hellava lot of oil to cause the smoking problem however, and it should be most noticeable under boost - which is when that crank case vent valve is open. Given that most peoples complaints (and my own) are that the smoke appears under deceleration/light throttle/vacuum in the intake tract, it just doesn't add up.
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    In my particular case I now think the majority of the smoke was coming from oil making it past the turbine seal in both of my turbos. I just had to change my downpipes back to stock last night because the smoking became unbearable. I recently burned an entire quart in a couple hundred miles. When I removed the catalyst free downpipes, I noticed oil on the bottom of the outside of the CHRAs, and I saw oil on the inside of the turbine housing as I shined a light through and behind the turbine blades. So the turbine side oil seal must be leaking in both turbos.

    I have modified my valve cover to block the passages to the built-in air/oil separators, and I have been routing all of the vapors through an external catch can, and then through the head or into the rear turbo intake tube as manifold pressure dictates. I have been experimenting with venting the PCV gasses to the atmosphere, so I am 100% sure no oil vapor from the crankcase was getting into the combustion chamber through the PCV system. I do not plan to leave the car like this. I just needed to rule the PCV system out as the culprit.

    I do plan on using an external air/oil separator in the future, as we have seen the separators in the valve cover don't do an adequate job at removing the oil from the blow by as is evident by people collecting oil in their OCCs and the amount of buildup on the valves. I have purchased and will be fitting the Mann Provent 200 oil separator in a closed setup soon.

    At this point I am going to try to make the car smoke with the stock downpipes, as I have 10k miles left on the turbo warranty. If that doesn't work, I will be purchasing aftermarket hybrid turbos. It was only in the 30s this morning, so I will need to beat on the car a bit once the ambient temperature climbs to something reasonable for May, and see if it still smokes once the oil gets to 240 or so. I don't think it made it past 220 this morning. The exhaust still faintly smells of oil.

  9. #34
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    People always go on a witch hunt especially PCV when their car starts to smoke, myself included, just wishful thinking its something else. 99% of the situations on this car its simply related to turbo seals going.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
    People always go on a witch hunt especially PCV when their car starts to smoke, myself included, just wishful thinking its something else. 99% of the situations on this car its simply related to turbo seals going.
    Absolutely, I was in denial.

    The ability of the stock system to separate air from oil is still less than stellar.

  11. #36
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    Good posts guys... I think that confirms its my seals. As it's only on deceleration/coming to a stop, the amount of smoke was insane though people would laugh as they passed it literally looked like something was burning, and now that the catted dps are on there is 0 smoke. I would think if it's the turbo seals it would still smoke with the catted downpipe no? @ajm8127 @lulz_m3
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  12. #37
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mikolo-n54 Click here to enlarge
    Good posts guys... I think that confirms its my seals. As it's only on deceleration/coming to a stop, the amount of smoke was insane though people would laugh as they passed it literally looked like something was burning, and now that the catted dps are on there is 0 smoke. I would think if it's the turbo seals it would still smoke with the catted downpipe no? @ajm8127 @lulz_m3
    Only if it was a severe leak. The factory cats do a good job of masking it. Looks like its a good excuse to get some stage II's Click here to enlarge
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lulz_m3 Click here to enlarge
    Only if it was a severe leak. The factory cats do a good job of masking it. Looks like its a good excuse to get some stage II's Click here to enlarge
    I agree with everything you said there. Click here to enlarge

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    @ajm8127 @lulz_m3 Looks like the dealer found the issue, its the valve stem seals. The turbos are fine. Can anyone shed light on what the process is of replacing the seals? Thank god for power train warranty they said it was a big job.
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    That's a bit scary, did they say how they determined it was the valvestem seals? Did they do a leak down test?

    thats a big job...
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lulz_m3 Click here to enlarge
    That's a bit scary, did they say how they determined it was the valvestem seals? Did they do a leak down test?

    thats a big job...
    Will get an in depth answer when I go to get the car.. Prob did some kind of compression/leak down. My SA told me I wasn't the first to have this issue. If you have white smoke on decel(catless) and going through some oil I woud definitely get it checked out. I had no check engine or anything either, car felt fine.
    Last edited by mikolo-n54; 05-18-2013 at 11:15 AM.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mikolo-n54 Click here to enlarge
    Will get an in depth answer when I go to get the car.. Prob did some kind of compression/leak down. My SA told me I wasn't the first to have this issue. If you have white smoke on decel(catless) and going through some oil I woud definitely get it checked out. I had no check engine or anything either, car felt fine.
    Yeah, valvestem seals could certainly cause that. How many miles do you have?
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lulz_m3 Click here to enlarge
    Yeah, valvestem seals could certainly cause that. How many miles do you have?
    Only 73k bought it with 54k.
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    Interesting. I don't think a leak down/compression test could diagnose valve stem seals.

    You would have to pressurize the head port with the valve closed.

    What do your plugs look like. I would think if all the oil was going through the combustion chamber, your plugs should show evidence of that.
    Eppur si muove.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ajm8127 Click here to enlarge
    Interesting. I don't think a leak down/compression test could diagnose valve stem seals.

    You would have to pressurize the head port with the valve closed.

    What do your plugs look like. I would think if all the oil was going through the combustion chamber, your plugs should show evidence of that.
    Plugs were perfect, no oil whatsoever
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    I'm also gonna attempt installing the downpipes at a much more competent shop after to see if the smoking problem is gone.
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mikolo-n54 Click here to enlarge
    Plugs were perfect, no oil whatsoever
    I would say that indicates oil is not entering the combustion chamber then. Oil could enter the combustion chamber from the intake valve seals, pcv system, or compressor side turbo oil seals. Oil could get into your exhaust, bypassing the combustion chamber by getting past the exhaust vale seals, or turbine side turbo oil seal. However, if the exhaust valve seals were bad I don't know if oil would leak down, or exhaust would leak up. Guess it would depend on the pressure in the exhaust port relative to the crankcase.

    Make sure you give a real good look to the turbine housing, and even shine a light through the turbine blades to check for liquid oil when the down pipes are off.

    I'm not sure how you would differentiate between oil making it past the exhaust valve seals and oil making it past the turbine side turbo oil seals.
    Eppur si muove.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ajm8127 Click here to enlarge
    I would say that indicates oil is not entering the combustion chamber then. Oil could enter the combustion chamber from the intake valve seals, pcv system, or compressor side turbo oil seals. Oil could get into your exhaust, bypassing the combustion chamber by getting past the exhaust vale seals, or turbine side turbo oil seal. However, if the exhaust valve seals were bad I don't know if oil would leak down, or exhaust would leak up. Guess it would depend on the pressure in the exhaust port relative to the crankcase.

    Make sure you give a real good look to the turbine housing, and even shine a light through the turbine blades to check for liquid oil when the down pipes are off.

    I'm not sure how you would differentiate between oil making it past the exhaust valve seals and oil making it past the turbine side turbo oil seals.
    Interesting, will for sure look for oil when they come off next. Pretty sure the dealer did a good diagnosis on the smoke from exhaust/turbos as thats why I came in their in the first place. My tech is very good so im not doubting his diagnosis. Car has been there since Wednesday and should be ready monday or tuesday. I also went in for battery cable recall and ac making some noise. Looking forward to no oil burning.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mikolo-n54 Click here to enlarge
    Interesting, will for sure look for oil when they come off next. Pretty sure the dealer did a good diagnosis on the smoke from exhaust/turbos as thats why I came in their in the first place. My tech is very good so im not doubting his diagnosis. Car has been there since Wednesday and should be ready monday or tuesday. I also went in for battery cable recall and ac making some noise. Looking forward to no oil burning.
    Sounds good. Keep us updated.
    Eppur si muove.

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    I'm dealing with a similar issue. Somebody suggested that it could be vacuum related and might be brakefluid pushed into the engine by the brake vacuum system?
    What do you think about this idea? This would lead to a strange kind of smell, as in my case the fume does really smells like oil.

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