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  1. #51
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 654 Click here to enlarge
    I like your approach. Dynoing the pump and long term testing is needed to ensure the longevity. It is good to see that you address the springs in addition to the HPFP passages.
    Lol...i would love to see the setup he claims he has to do this...this has been one of his bs things in the past. I would love to get a tour of his pump dyno. A bunch of pictures don't mean anything so its a wasted effort.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by jhershorin Click here to enlarge
    Lol...i would love to see the setup he claims he has to do this...this has been one of his bs things in the past. I would love to get a tour of his pump dyno. A bunch of pictures don't mean anything so its a wasted effort.
    At least he knows what should be done. Doing it would be in everyone's best interest. So, Jake, let's encourage him and hope for the best.

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    I have no qualms with John attempting to be in business on a new platform. Everytime he pops up its the same story. The same defense. The same thing happens. I am fine with him being here. We will work with cars that use tony's pumps. The definition of stupid is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

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    bmw guys, take it from a guy who now lives in the motherland of pfannkuchen and BMWs: don't buy $#@! from this guy. he screwed the mazdaspeed community with his $#@!ty parts pretty badly. on how many platforms has he tried this now? mazdaspeed, srt4, what else?!

    john, go swallow a knife and die in a fire.

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    Lets break this down shall we. Man this sounds familiar! Same speech I got on the phone 2 months ago, well except no mention of a fuel rail, more on that later.
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by hpfpupgrade Click here to enlarge
    You need more right? You don't want to run methanol? Not a problem.

    Actually no we don't we have enough fuel for 800-900 WHP right now

    14 months ago I took on the BMW fuel pump, injectors and in tank module in hopes to get a higher flowing system for you guys. After months of wrecking several fuel pumps and $1000's of dollars in cut apart injectors we finally have something that flows more fuel. We didn't put much effort into the in-tank upgrade because one was already done from a different vendor.

    14 months? You told us you had the solution in 2009, we can start pulling posts if you want.

    The injectors:

    OMG!!! What was BMW thinking? You cannot pull them apart without damaging the dampener inside them (yes they have what appears to be a small fluid dampening unit inside the injectors). Not only this but they are reverse pintle design (seals on the cone side). We are still working on a way to open the injector and machine them but applying power to a spinning injector is turning out to be more difficult than we though. We are still working on a solution for bigger injectors, but more on this later.


    So you are going to tell us injectors that have been estimated to be rated at 1100 CC min each need addressing to get the fuel we need? Hmmmmmm. Um ok, sure make upgraded injectors for what 1200-1500 WHP applications?

    The HPFP:

    Wow, what a wonderful piece of artwork BMW gave us to work with. I am really surprised on the operating parameters of this pump and the pressures it can build based on the design. The first things we noticed are the restrictions in the pump cavity's. Some of them are so small its amazing it moves any volume at all. Next, the pump is RPM limited due to the light spring pressures for the piston and pressure chamber. Pump testing on the pump dyno proved to be more difficult than planned but after building an oil pre-pressure and fill chamber we finally had a working test stand to dyno fuel pumps with.

    Now that you have some of the details of the parts I can share with you how we make them better.

    The injectors can be machined but need to be opened in order to do the machine process. We are working on this and hope to have a solution before the end of summer.

    The fuel pump we have a 18-20% higher flowing unit right now and have a 35-40% higher flowing unit planned end of summer. We tear down the fuel pump to its base items (custom tools were made to tear the pumps down). Every part is kept in a clean room so no dust, dirt or debris can get on or inside the pump. We start off with reworking the springs, not going to tell you which one's or how much additional we add but it will provide a more stable fuel pressure and extends the RPM band to 8,000 RPM. Then we start massaging the passages inside the fuel pump. We have found its possible to get 60% more flow out of the pump with to much port opening, problem being... idle quality and pressure control turn to crap. It took several fuel pumps to find how much .002 of a difference really made, LOL. Then we run the pumps on the pump dyno (can we see your high tech pump dyno please, because we actually have a machine that is built to test high pressure mechanical pumps) with the oil controlled pressure chamber (freaking really BMW?) pressurizing the pumping head on the HPFP. When we are all done with testing and machining a Stage 1 fuel pump... we have a pump that moves enough fuel to feed 600 WHP without methanol and a proper tune. Stage 2 fuel pumps, well... that is a different beast! We machine new pump pistons (all 3) and new pressure build chambers. Perform all the Stage 1 pump upgrades and you have a fuel pump that should supply 700 + WHP worth of fuel without methanol and a proper tune.

    Hmmmmm again, we just made 725 WHP with none thats ZERO fuel issues, so much fuel the DME is pulling it out. We have 800+ HP worth of fuel, so please sell us your upgrade for 700WHP.

    Now, before you guys start asking for pictures... understand we have a lot of R&D wrapped up into these fuel pumps. I don't want to leak any of the visual details of what we are doing to the competition, so keep that in mind. We are also keeping pricing in check, we don't see a need to gouge you guys for additional fuel or create competition from over pricing. All our fuel systems come with a modified fuel rail. This modification helps with the lean condition for 4-6 cylinders.

    Another person that was obviously reading when we told everyone who would listen the fuel rail need attention. When I spoke to him 2 months ago he made none thats right ZERO mention of a fuel rail needed for the upgrade, but send him my pump and he would upgrade it RIGHT AWAY, guess why, because he didn't know about it, AKA couldn't figure it out in 4 years.

    Every fuel pump we modify will be brand new. We do not want to risk getting a revision 3 or 4 fuel pump just to have it fail after we modify it. We start off with the latest revision from BMW and apply our upgrade's to that fuel pump. This way everyone knows they are getting the best product from BMW and from us.

    We will have two customers cars running our fuel pumps in the coming weeks, both of them will be able to push the full potential of our Stage 1 and 2 fuel pumps.

    If you have any questions please feel free to contact me.

    Thanks,

    John
    First off lets start with price, lets see what he is going to try to gouge you with, Secondly, Bottom line people, he just described in detail his process to get "700 HP worth of fuel with no methanol. Oh you mean like we got 673 no meth, on our $499 upgrade? Can we see this pump dyno? Here are 2 pics of our purpose built computer controlled machine that is collecting dust that can test mechanical fuel pumps that I could easily make a fixture for to mount the BMW pump and run it if we so choose, but taking new pumps and making small upgrades to them and complimenting those with small upgrades to the fuel system, which you copied and has now allowed you to enter the market with "new technology" we do not need the machine as the pump is not modified in any way that would alter its longevity at all, its as good as it was from the factory. Hey man, if you are gonna sell snake oil, make sure you are not selling it to people who know what snake oil is. That's all were asking
    Last edited by Tony@VargasTurboTech; 04-30-2013 at 07:21 PM.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 654 Click here to enlarge
    At least he knows what should be done. Doing it would be in everyone's best interest. So, Jake, let's encourage him and hope for the best.
    This is where assuming bites you in the ass. He gave me this same song and dance, I sent him a pump he didn't touch it? You wonder why? If you are working to develop a new product you try to get it on a new kit coming out for the platform right. I will tell you why, he isn't doing $#@! to these pumps that he describes, he figured out what we are doing and voila he has the fuel he needs, same as the other guys, now he is going to say he figured it out. Just google him and past business's. That should tell you plenty, this is not a personal attack, he might be the nicest guy in the world. But his rep of selling snake oil and bailing is pretty legendary.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Ak335i Click here to enlarge
    i figured as much but thats ok as we still need the HPFP/rail upgrade and will do our thing with the lpfp. Not an issue at all Click here to enlarge Id like to help if possible PM back when you get that feature enabled... @Sticky ?
    He should be able to PM...

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  8. #58
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    He should be able to PM...
    go to know. I'll await an email or PM back.
    - Proven Power Tampa built 6466 ST -
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    2 out of 7 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No

    This post by Sticky is hidden due to excessive negative ratings. Click expand to view the post.



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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    Up the ante? You have been saying you have this figured out since 2009, yet 2 weeks after we figure it out, you are going to up the ante? up the ante by? Stealing what we do and charging more then 500 bucks for 900 WHP worth of fuel? Telling people they need new injectors to get more fuel, when they dont? Taking in products and then not answering calls or emails? If this is upping the ante, whoo boy. We are in for some ante upping guys. Hey everyone, honestly do whatever you want, send this guy all your pumps, listen to him when he says you need better injectors, buy into all of it. Just don't be surprised if he is gone in 4 months and you are left with nothing to show for it. With that, welcome to the forums (again) 4 years later, same claims.
    Tony, not going to get into a who said she said online battle with you. You can try to slander our product, you can try to slander our name... we will let our products do the talking for us. Getting into vendor wars and making up false claims about a competitors products does nothing good for the community. At least customers have another option for fueling their cars.

    I hate it when I have to keep copy and posting. Tony, hows this sound? You sell and market your product and I will do the same. I will do my best to never mention your name or your product, you do the same. I don't see how or why you are so intimidated by me, so my recommendation would be to let it go. You have a product that works and works well let it do the talking for you.

    Thanks,

    John

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I understand there is informing the community and then jumping all over competition.

    Tony, when Rob did this to you... how did that go? You were unproven, supposedly unreliable, with a checkered past, etc.

    I saw this guy at least deserves a chance to prove himself. Nobody is buying anything yet. Proof will be in the pudding. If he can't hang it will sort itself out.
    Well, I agree and disagree, I have actual personal experience with him taking my parts, doing nothing with them, lying about it, and having his wife talk to me on the phone and email. After speaking with a couple other people, they told me even more, I came to the table with zero track record in this platform, but a stand up business in many others, with 35 years behind it that my dad built, he comes to the table with not just me but everyone else saying he screwed other platforms over, it prob erks me so much because when I spoke to him on the phone the convo read like that intro post and he did nothing, now that I say hey address the fuel rail, oh hey we have a pump solution it includes a fuel rail, after the dude stole everyone elses pump designs, here he goes again, I am not gonna tell the dude good job man, come gouge everyone. But you have my word, I wont say anything else. I will just watch from a distance. You know I am down for options, as long as they are good ones.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    Well, I agree and disagree, I have actual personal experience with him taking my parts, doing nothing with them, lying about it, and having his wife talk to me on the phone and email. After speaking with a couple other people, they told me even more, I came to the table with zero track record in this platform, but a stand up business in many others, with 35 years behind it that my dad built, he comes to the table with not just me but everyone else saying he screwed other platforms over, it prob erks me so much because when I spoke to him on the phone the convo read like that intro post and he did nothing, now that I say hey address the fuel rail, oh hey we have a pump solution it includes a fuel rail, after the dude stole everyone elses pump designs, here he goes again, I am not gonna tell the dude good job man, come gouge everyone. But you have my word, I wont say anything else. I will just watch from a distance. You know I am down for options, as long as they are good ones.
    A warning is good. If it works, it works. If it doesn't, he'll be gone with an article up to detailing exactly what happened.

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I understand there is informing the community and then jumping all over competition.

    Tony, when Rob did this to you... how did that go? You were unproven, supposedly unreliable, with a checkered past, etc.

    I saw this guy at least deserves a chance to prove himself. Nobody is buying anything yet. Proof will be in the pudding. If he can't hang it will sort itself out.

    Thank you for giving us the chance to prove ourselves. There are two big single turbo kits that will have our fueling solution very soon, they will be putting the Stage 1 and Stage 2 pumps to the test. I can assure you that you will never have to worry about me in vendor pissing matches, its unprofessional and ends up being counter productive for everyone (some find it entertaining).

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    This is where assuming bites you in the ass. He gave me this same song and dance, I sent him a pump he didn't touch it? You wonder why? If you are working to develop a new product you try to get it on a new kit coming out for the platform right. I will tell you why, he isn't doing $#@! to these pumps that he describes, he figured out what we are doing and voila he has the fuel he needs, same as the other guys, now he is going to say he figured it out. Just google him and past business's. That should tell you plenty, this is not a personal attack, he might be the nicest guy in the world. But his rep of selling snake oil and bailing is pretty legendary.
    Wow... no comment.

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    5 out of 5 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Anybody else think it's funny timing and that he has a two ST guys running trials? Any chance that a certain unnamed person that can only post once a day is involve?
    2008 135i - Cobb AP, JB4 G5 w/2Step&FSB, MS DP's, Berk street exhaust, AMS IC, VTT Inlets, UR Intake, ER CP w/Tial BOV, Spec 3+ & Steel FW, CDV delete, Quaife LSD, DSS Axles, M3 control arms, M3 rear SF bushings, M3 Trans bushings, SS brake lines. Pics

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by hpfpupgrade Click here to enlarge
    Thank you for giving us the chance to prove ourselves. There are two big single turbo kits that will have our fueling solution very soon, they will be putting the Stage 1 and Stage 2 pumps to the test. I can assure you that you will never have to worry about me in vendor pissing matches, its unprofessional and ends up being counter productive for everyone (some find it entertaining).
    All I want to see is the results from the pumps, that's it.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by brusk Click here to enlarge
    Anybody else think it's funny timing and that he has a two ST guys running trials? Any chance that a certain unnamed person that can only post once a day is involve?
    Would sure make things interesting eh?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by jhershorin Click here to enlarge
    Lol...i would love to see the setup he claims he has to do this...this has been one of his bs things in the past. I would love to get a tour of his pump dyno. A bunch of pictures don't mean anything so its a wasted effort.
    When ever you are in the area you are more than welcome to swing by and check it out. Better yet, if you look up on youtube you can see it running with a Mazda pump on it. In that video you can see how we have a modular design. This design allows us to bolt any modular pump housing to the bench and test it. The video is old and doesn't show the new items we have added. Right now we can test: Audi, VW, Mazda and BMW pump on the stand. The BMW pumps were very difficult to test due to them needing oil pressure in the dive end to operate properly. The oil is the sealing/hydraulic operation of the pump. Without the oil pressure chamber the pump will not reach proper pump performance.

    I would take pictures, but like you said... wasted effort and time.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    All I want to see is the results from the pumps, that's it.
    That is what I will provide!

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Would sure make things interesting eh?
    I hope not... but it could be possible.

    If you have a chance PM me with his name.

    Thanks,

    John

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by brusk Click here to enlarge
    Anybody else think it's funny timing and that he has a two ST guys running trials? Any chance that a certain unnamed person that can only post once a day is involve?
    He's not involved....yet.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    Up the ante? You have been saying you have this figured out since 2009, yet 2 weeks after we figure it out, you are going to up the ante? up the ante by? Stealing what we do and charging more then 500 bucks for 900 WHP worth of fuel? Telling people they need new injectors to get more fuel, when they dont? Taking in products and then not answering calls or emails? If this is upping the ante, whoo boy. We are in for some ante upping guys. Hey everyone, honestly do whatever you want, send this guy all your pumps, listen to him when he says you need better injectors, buy into all of it. Just don't be surprised if he is gone in 4 months and you are left with nothing to show for it. With that, welcome to the forums (again) 4 years later, same claims.
    This. I dunno where this injector bull$#@! came from, but fuel supply is not an issue with the injectors right now. Last I recall, they flow 2300cc/min worth of fuel; which is plenty.

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    Beware of John and PTP/Tork Motorsports/HPFP Upgrade/Etc. Had three of his pumps fail on my Mazdaspeed car which were all assembled by him. The third time he delayed the warranty process and lied, so I dropped his $#@!ty parts like a baby on its head and installed Autotech internals, which still work flawlessly to this day. The PTP/Tork/HPFP Upgrade internals that I pulled out of the pump were scarred worse than Hitler's soul. I'm glad my current BMW doesn't have John building any shade tree parts for it.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sered Click here to enlarge
    This. I dunno where this injector bull$#@! came from, but fuel supply is not an issue with the injectors right now. Last I recall, they flow 2300cc/min worth of fuel; which is plenty.
    The injectors details I am getting from BMW and from testing company's that claim they only deliver xxx cc/min. If something has changed then I am not so proud to admit I am wrong. There is also the amount of open time that they have which is a problem in every DI platform. I will have to do additional research on what has changed since I last looked at them. If I find something different I will apologize for posting info that is not accurate.

    Thanks,

    John

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    Do you see what I see?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Ak335i Click here to enlarge
    Not bad 4 min from my bump to your update! i like your style
    @Ak335i I'm thinking he had this written about 4 years ago and thought he could recycle it...

    There are quite people speaking up to ensure the community is aware of his past...

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by diddiyo Click here to enlarge
    bmw guys, take it from a guy who now lives in the motherland of pfannkuchen and BMWs: don't buy $#@! from this guy. he screwed the mazdaspeed community with his $#@!ty parts pretty badly. on how many platforms has he tried this now? mazdaspeed, srt4, what else?!
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ShooterMcSkeet Click here to enlarge
    Beware of John and PTP/Tork Motorsports/HPFP Upgrade/Etc. Had three of his pumps fail on my Mazdaspeed car which were all assembled by him. The third time he delayed the warranty process and lied, so I dropped his $#@!ty parts like a baby on its head and installed Autotech internals, which still work flawlessly to this day. The PTP/Tork/HPFP Upgrade internals that I pulled out of the pump were scarred worse than Hitler's soul. I'm glad my current BMW doesn't have John building any shade tree parts for it.
    He is willing to apologize for his "research" to be off from the last time... (Was this 4 years ago too?)

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by hpfpupgrade Click here to enlarge
    The injectors details I am getting from BMW and from testing company's that claim they only deliver xxx cc/min. If something has changed then I am not so proud to admit I am wrong. There is also the amount of open time that they have which is a problem in every DI platform. I will have to do additional research on what has changed since I last looked at them. If I find something different I will apologize for posting info that is not accurate.
    @hpfpupgrade I don't know you or your past. I think you are simply trying to capitalize on the BMW community with your timing. You even admit that your product announcement post had incorrect information. You have been a Supporting Vendor here for 7 days and been blasted. I wish you luck, I think you'll need it.

    Here is a test, post a pic of each hpfp that has been released for the N54, if you have been working on this for the last 4 years you should have a couple of each laying around right?

    ~Nate

    (You can call me a troll but I have been burnt by a guy that looked EXACTLY like this on a bike forum)

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