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Thread: "Auto Tuning"

  1. #26
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Laloosh Click here to enlarge
    Proxy your ass to e90 and read the tuning thread.
    That site rots your mind, I don't recommend it.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    OK, that makes sense and is a good way tod it.

    So you can set any max boost number you want really and if it is safe/possible it will hit it?
    In a nutshell. Now it also autotunes for wastegate slop as there are tons of people with wg rattle due to looseness/tightness of the gates. After it does its thing, everyone is on the same playing field when it comes to throtle response/building boost/hitting targets. No bull$#@! overshoots/undershoots

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Laloosh Click here to enlarge
    In a nutshell. Now it also autotunes for wastegate slop as there are tons of people with wg rattle due to looseness/tightness of the gates. After it does its thing, everyone is on the same playing field when it comes to throtle response/building boost/hitting targets. No bull$#@! overshoots/undershoots
    Sounds like a very good design.
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    The design is very good. It was the sole reason I am purchasing the unit. Once T has JB4 with autotune, Ill be running with them again. I just don't have the time to constantly tune the vehicle. I'm not trying to break 10s and I always want optimum performance, so autotune is what got me into the PROcede. Not to mention a few different people drive my car from time to time, and I dread if some kind of problem would arise with this ridiculous weather, such as underboost or limp mode.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    i cant read over there from here Click here to enlarge

    how do you KNOW its doing what its supposed to if you dont log it to check on it, arent you going to log races anyway?

    your really gonna push 19psi on stockers? i would have figured you would want to hit in the 17.5-18.5 boost range (again) or is that what your hoping to target anway by inputting the 19psi? why would it go past the aggression level? what happens if it does?
    Exactly.... If your not running logs on a time to time basis, how do you know the autotune is doing what it is supposed to do, your leaving way too much to chance. So basically you really can't just install it and forget it if you are smart and care about your car.

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    i think you can still log, but you just don't have to. is that right?

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    there's a difference between doing a log every now and then to check on it... vs doing lots of logging and messing with settings to get it where you want.. and then just having to do it all over that night if you want to optimize it even further if the temp drops 20 degrees.

    That being said the times I do log (because I personally like to see what's going on), it's proven to work exactly as advertised and I have complete confidence in the system. You can set it to be as conservative or aggressive as you want, and on top of that you set an upper boost limit so even if you want it to be aggressive you can limit the upper threshold, so even if the conditions/octane allow you won't go past that limit.

    Also.. basic/simple way to check what's going on is by looking at the boost gauge. Throw some race gas in and watch the boost rise. Get a bad batch of pump gas? watch boost targets drop. Have an extra cold night, watch boost targets rise.. hot humid day? boost goes down.

    you can see it doing it's thing daily without having to log

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by RambleJ535 Click here to enlarge
    Exactly.... If your not running logs on a time to time basis, how do you know the autotune is doing what it is supposed to do, your leaving way too much to chance. So basically you really can't just install it and forget it if you are smart and care about your car.
    Last edited by jpsimon; 08-19-2010 at 08:01 PM.

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    THis autotune crap makes me laugh. You procede guys railed on Terry for not having timing control and riding the knock sensors. That's EXACTLY what the autotune Procede does. It looks at timing and when it drops (b/c of knock) it pulls boost back. Same $#@!, different deal.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by boom Click here to enlarge
    THis autotune crap makes me laugh. You procede guys railed on Terry for not having timing control and riding the knock sensors. That's EXACTLY what the autotune Procede does. It looks at timing and when it drops (b/c of knock) it pulls boost back. Same $#@!, different deal.
    This is a very good point. It is just looking at the knock and then adjusts the timing, much like what the stock ECU does right?
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by boom Click here to enlarge
    THis autotune crap makes me laugh. You procede guys railed on Terry for not having timing control and riding the knock sensors. That's EXACTLY what the autotune Procede does. It looks at timing and when it drops (b/c of knock) it pulls boost back. Same $#@!, different deal.
    never thought about it like that, good point

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    LOL @ proceed guys
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by boom Click here to enlarge
    THis autotune crap makes me laugh. You procede guys railed on Terry for not having timing control and riding the knock sensors. That's EXACTLY what the autotune Procede does. It looks at timing and when it drops (b/c of knock) it pulls boost back. Same $#@!, different deal.
    Nice try, but you are wrong. Autotune has control over 4-5 degrees of timing and 5psi off boost. Based on agression levels you get to pick how much timing you want to aim. You want it not to knock at all? Go extra conservative and start with low boost. Next time, actually learn how something works before making one liners.

    But if you want to take it there....why is terry now taking on cps offsetting after claiming multiple times that its useless. Why is he working on autotuning now?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Laloosh Click here to enlarge
    Nice try, but you are wrong. Autotune has control over 4-5 degrees of timing and 5psi off boost. Based on agression levels you get to pick how much timing you want to aim. You want it not to knock at all? Go extra conservative and start with low boost. Next time, actually learn how something works before making one liners.
    so when does it know to scale boost back?

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    All the information on how this feature works can be found on the vishnu website.

    I think that it should be noted that "proceed guys" is a retarded and completely obsessive term, I am an end user just like everyone else and it is not the end user who is designing these tunes or stating how they work and which is best. Those statements come DIRECTLY from the tuner them self. (BMS and Vishnu alike).

    I have both BMS and Vishnu tunes, and would like for you to see that in its current state, the PROceed has the upperhand on BMS with the implement of auto tuning (FOR PEOPLE WHO WANT TO SET AND FORGET, NOT IN ALL RESPECTS). BMS will have auto tuning in a few months and then we can start to nitpick on the tunes again.

    @LM: I think it scales boost back based on a lot of variables. IAT, Fuel (octane), knock, timing, a ton of factors. Im not super tech savvy as Im new to all of this, but all of those would in fact adjust boost values.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by boom Click here to enlarge
    THis autotune crap makes me laugh. You procede guys railed on Terry for not having timing control and riding the knock sensors. That's EXACTLY what the autotune Procede does. It looks at timing and when it drops (b/c of knock) it pulls boost back. Same $#@!, different deal.
    This is what I was referring to when I made the statement about "proceed guys". Its not the user who makes the claims its the tuner, so that should be clarified. These posts that say "Mine Tune X is better than your tune Y" are stupid. These people (yourself included) get worked up because you feel so subjected that you must for some reason justify your purchase? Both tunes are excellent in their current states, different people want different things from their tune and that is why there are different choices.

    Not to mention I am in no way affiliated with BMS or Vishnu. I am not a JB or PROceed guy! Click here to enlarge

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    The only feedback that the procede could use is knock. It may lower boost in response to iat but that's not "autotuning." That would just be a boost/iat map. To "autotune" the device needs to learn from it's environment. There has to be a feedback mechanism to tell the procede what it's doing is "good or bad." The only feedback signal that the car will be able to provide is knock.

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    Try again Jason. Do you really want to go down this road?
    oil temps, coolant temps, baro, iats, elevation ect.

    So if you are so against this autotuning....how do you tune? Do you just RAMDOMLY put in numbers into the standback or do you actually tune with it? What makes you stop going for more power? Oh wait, you have yet to turn boost up past 14 psi and probably retarded timing 4 degrees...thats not tuning man, thats called guessing.

  18. #43
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Laloosh Click here to enlarge
    But if you want to take it there....why is terry now taking on cps offsetting after claiming multiple times that its useless. Why is he working on autotuning now?
    I believe Terry said it he still considers it useless but it will be there to make customers that want it happy. Not sure if he is exaggerating when he says useless but either way it is his opinion.

    This thread has started to lean from learning WHAT autotuning does and HOW it does it, to Autotuning is dumb/Autotuning is useful.

    I would like to know exactly what variables the Proceed is looking at to determine its next adjustment. So far, to me it looks like it just adds boost if you don't have a change in timing that is greater than your "aggression level", and once it DOES have a timing drop greater than your "aggression level", it dials boost back again until you have your desired timing advance.

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    Why don't you guys read the posts on e90. Its all posted on there. The plain and utter stupidity angers me in this thread. Have you been living under a rock for the past 6 months?

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    laloosh, k726, jpsimon, etc,.--- thanks for taking the time to explain things. Not sure if the info is well received though... Click here to enlarge

    Shiv

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    its because most of us dont believe what the shiv says, as he has been caught with a twisted tongue more than a few times. the 'Bias" that you dont believe is over there, limits who can say what and how they percieve things to work, making that thread useless. Throwing the thread up here lets everyone and their grandmother chime in, including the shiv himself

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    its because most of us dont believe what the shiv says, as he has been caught with a twisted tongue more than a few times. the 'Bias" that you dont believe is over there, limits who can say what and how they percieve things to work, making that thread useless. Throwing the thread up here lets everyone and their grandmother chime in, including the shiv himself
    So don't believe it, lol. By now people would call him out if it was bull$#@!. You don't think if it was all a bunch of crap the rumors wouldnt spread? Hell half the east coast switched over in the past 3 months or so. It must be doing something right.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    its because most of us dont believe what the shiv says, as he has been caught with a twisted tongue more than a few times. the 'Bias" that you dont believe is over there, limits who can say what and how they percieve things to work, making that thread useless. Throwing the thread up here lets everyone and their grandmother chime in, including the shiv himself
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    its because most of us dont believe what the shiv says, as he has been caught with a twisted tongue more than a few times. the 'Bias" that you dont believe is over there, limits who can say what and how they percieve things to work, making that thread useless. Throwing the thread up here lets everyone and their grandmother chime in, including the shiv himself
    No moderation on a car forum = Fox News meets Jerry Springer. In my opinion that is worse, but whatever smokes your chimney! oh also, my grandmother will not be chiming in - she isn't really a car person Click here to enlarge

    On that note... I digress, carry on. I'm done arguing that as I'm just beating a dead horse.
    Last edited by jpsimon; 08-20-2010 at 02:19 PM.

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    When I bought my proceed it wasn't because of what shiv said. It was from other end user reviews. Same with my JB3 but since I can't fully use my JB3 I bought a proceed. I wouldn't have bought the JB3 with first thoroughly reading end user reviews. So if you want to doubt the tuner on anything they say you are a smart buyer. Terry has also doubled back on some of his ideas because as a business man he knows he has to cater to the largest crowd. Welcome to JB4. Click here to enlarge

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